Are DC films held to a different, higher standard?

[writer0327]

And if so, why?

Does the public treat the DCEU with fairness? Should it be held to the same standard or a higher standard than other comic book films? I think the standard by which these films are being judged in light of the entirety of comic book history is really what's in view here. DC is older with more iconic and popular characters and has been the more durable company. I think we all expect more from them.

Thoughts?

 

[Whatupman]

Nope.

 

[scarlet-witch]

I don't think they're judged unfairly, I think the public does expect them to be handled the same way MCU handles theirs, or how Nolan handed the Dark Knight trilogy, and in turn they expect it to go slowly and build, but that's it. I think most want the high quality but understand that it should take time.

I've never been one to believe in them being treated differently, or that there's some mass conspiracy to criticize them.

 

[The Whizzer]

I'm going to assume you really liked the last three movies in the DCEU and don't see any problems with their current direction. The "high standard" DC is being held to is "make good movies." They're not doing that, as evidenced by lackluster reviews from critics AND fans, and disappointing box office.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I don't think there is a conspiracy or anything like that. But personally I wish the DCCU movies were not measured against MCU movies by reviewers.

I am not saying this would make the reviews amazingly better, but judge them on their own terms and don't compare them. I feel critics are too harsh on them.

 

[TeeKay]

No. Why would they be? A film is a film and it should be judged from a story telling point of view. Did it reach what it set out to do? Characters, narrative etc. It's like saying are crime dramas held to a different, higher standard than psychological thrillers? The comparisons with the MCU are inevitable because DC is trying to do what Marvel is doing and failing and it's obvious, hence why the MCU is brought up. That's just the way it is. Nothing to do with standards at all.

 

[MissCrissCross]

I don't know about the general audience, but I hold DC films to a higher standard than Marvel films. If DC came out with something as corny as the Avengers films, I would be supremely disappointed and upset.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Subconsciously, yes they are.

 

[Primal Slayer]

no.

 

[Silver Surfer]

A bad movie is just that, a bad movie.

 

[The Batman]

No.

People just know good CBM's when they see them.

And while the DCEU has many fans, for many others, the DCEU has not delivered.

Even taking Marvel comparisons out of the equation, The DCEU has not lived up to the standard set by earlier, better received DC films. They're not as innovative or beloved as Superman: The Movie and Superman 2. They're not as influential and respected as The Dark Knight Trilogy. They don't have the same general goodwill that the Burton films or V for Vendetta have.

Some people talk about conspiracies or "DC is held to a higher standard" because they can't accept that they love something that is, at best, polarizing for many people. They like it, so it's factually good, and whoever disagrees with that has some kind of bias or flaw in their thinking. It's BS.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Nu-uh.
They are underwhelming.

 

[MissCrissCross]

No.

People just know good CBM's when they see them.

And while the DCEU has many fans, for many others, the DCEU has not delivered.

Even taking Marvel comparisons out of the equation, The DCEU has not lived up to the standard set by earlier, better received DC films. They're not as innovative or beloved as Superman: The Movie and Superman 2. They're not as influential and respected as The Dark Knight Trilogy. They don't have the same general goodwill that the Burton films or V for Vendetta have.

Some people talk about conspiracies or "DC is held to a higher standard" because they can't accept that they love something that is, at best, polarizing for many people. They like it, so it's factually good, and whoever disagrees with that has some kind of bias or flaw in their thinking. It's BS.

Man of Steel is a far better Superman origin movie than Superman: The Movie, well-received or not. If you're going to compare them to the Dark Knight trilogy, then compare the Marvel films in the same way - they're not even close to as good but still averaging good reviews. And V For Vendetta is almost an entirely different genre, but it's the same idea. My opinion is: critic reviews of Marvel and DC movies are held to far different standards.

 

[jmc]

No. This higher standards nonsense is nothing but a false reality some fans have created for themselves in order to explain the bad reception the series has gotten. Sometimes people just don't like the films you like, that's really all it is.

 

[Thundercrack85]

No. I think the films are just inferior. Catwoman is one of the worst movies ever made. Green Lantern is in the same league as Fantastic Four.

The recent movies have just been a mess.

 

[The Batman]

Man of Steel is a far better Superman origin movie than Superman: The Movie,

....And I stopped reading at this part.

 

[jmc]

I don't think there is a conspiracy or anything like that. But personally I wish the DCCU movies were not measured against MCU movies by reviewers.

I am not saying this would make the reviews amazingly better, but judge them on their own terms and don't compare them. I feel critics are too harsh on them.

If two brands are producing similar products it's entirely reasonable to make comparisons about which is producing better results. In fact, to not do it is not being honest with the readership, it does fans no favours to withhold information just to spare their feelings. That's all this really comes down to - feelings. Fans don't like the idea of something they want to love not being as good as they hoped.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Man of Steel is a far better Superman origin movie than Superman: The Movie, well-received or not. If you're going to compare them to the Dark Knight trilogy, then compare the Marvel films in the same way - they're not even close to as good but still averaging good reviews. And V For Vendetta is almost an entirely different genre, but it's the same idea. My opinion is: critic reviews of Marvel and DC movies are held to far different standards.

I love Man of Steel, and think it deserves more love than it received (from those who look at it as one of the worst CBMs, to be specific), but the origin in that one is not better than the 1978 film, even with the more exciting scenes of MoS, the questionable moments of a man genetically bred to be a man of reason and science taking down a man genetically bred to be a fighter and does not want to go easy on who now chose to oppose him instead of working along his side... Jor-El beating the crap out of Zod is a story flaw, as cool and engaging as it is.
Then there is the disjointed back and forth between Kal-El's childhood and his present self, the (as they call it) wafer thin stance of Jonathan Kent on Clark using his powers to help others, and so on...

The 1978 origin does not have these flaws, it's simply better constructed and told.

 

[writer0327]

Even taking Marvel comparisons out of the equation, The DCEU has not lived up to the standard set by earlier, better received DC films. They're not as innovative or beloved as Superman: The Movie and Superman 2. They're not as influential and respected as The Dark Knight Trilogy. They don't have the same general goodwill that the Burton films or V for Vendetta have.

You said "No" but then you come back with this, which seems to indicate that they are held to a higher standard.

I believe the DCEU is being judged against other films in DC's past that have delivered the goods. My question is, is that fair? On the one hand, if you are making a "Superman" film, you should expect comparisons to previous iterations of Superman. But also, I think since DC has the older, more popular, more iconic characters....Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman...the movie going public has a higher expectation of those films versus let's say Ant-Man. In addition to that, seeing how well Marvel has done with their properties, both critically and financially, people assume that DC, with more popular characters throughout history, should be better than Marvel.

For the record, I don't think there is a conspiracy against DC, at least not a conscious one. I just think the movie going public, just because of the history of DC, expects more out of DC than other comic book films.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Absolutely not. The movies just aren't very good.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

You said "No" but then you come back with this, which seems to indicate that they are held to a higher standard.

What The Batman meant was that they are like the rest of the outings in the industry, the movies on a high bar did not set up the bar too high for other DC movies to reach, they are good enough to reach the high bar or go above it.

 

[AnneFan]

I don't think there is a conspiracy or anything like that. But personally I wish the DCCU movies were not measured against MCU movies by reviewers.

I am not saying this would make the reviews amazingly better, but judge them on their own terms and don't compare them. I feel critics are too harsh on them.

The knives really come out when they smell blood. I think MoS and BvS are great, but it seems like they'll really need something jawdroppingly good that simply cannot be denied for the moaners get on board.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

The knives really come out when they smell blood. I think MoS and BvS are great, but it seems like they'll really need something jawdroppingly good that simply cannot be denied for the moaners get on board.

Not at all. I'm actually pretty easy to place. I liked films like Thor 2, Iron Man 2, Spider-Man 3, Batman Forever, and Daredevil. I've long defended TDKR. I don't even think Superman Returns was that bad. I'm pretty easy to please when it comes to CBMs.

MoS was alright. I enjoyed it well enough as a big, loud action movie. It was BvS that was the film that I thought was a complete disaster on nearly every level.

I'm not asking for every film to be TDK. I am well aware that consistently maintaining that level of quality is simply not achievable.

 

[ManWithNoName18]

If anything the DCEU holds itself to a really high standard. Now at first that sounds like a good thing, but in reality I feel like it's been hurting them.

Nolan made 3 phenomenal comic book movies. The Dark Knight in paticular is held by some as in thier top movies of all time. What made Nolan's movies even more prestigious was that he delved deeper than your average blockbuster. The trilogy took itself seriously, inhabited a less fantastical world, well thought out themes, philosophical battles, etc.

So Man Of Steel and BVS roll around. And Snyder and company want a worthy successor to the Dark Knight Trilogy and try to emulate a lot of what they thought made the Trilogy work.

But it just never really succeeded in being TDKT's worthy successor

Some issues I collected

- the Pa Kent vs Jor El philosophical battle about how to raise young Clark Resulted in the really bad Tornado scene

- Jesus/religious symbolism in both BVS/MOS seemed really forced and in your face

- the "real world response" to the World Engine destruction made the Superman scenes really sad/depressing. It was like Superman couldn't catch a break.

I think part of the problem of the Snyder movies is that Snyder is really overstepping his boundaries as a filmmaker.

 

[writer0327]

The knives really come out when they smell blood. I think MoS and BvS are great, but it seems like they'll really need something jawdroppingly good that simply cannot be denied for the moaners get on board.

This is where I'm coming from.

For instance, I thought MoS was "good", not great, but a good film, definitely the best DCEU film so far. But because it will be compared to Superman films and Nolanverse Batman films that preceded it, I don't think people cannot enjoy it for what it is.

Does the DCEU need to be TDK quality all the time to get any praise at all?