Are things going too fast?

[Silver Spider]

The first six villains he put down came back in their next apperance as the sinister six. Sorry but that feels far too quick.

I've never been one to believe what occurs in the comics is always right. TV is a different medium. A six part story arc in a comic may only take 2 eps, time moves differently, you can't always have enough scenes to show what parker is thinking etc....

It's not even that it was a true sinister six story, rather six villains were used as part of the symbiote arc and really had enough material to hold a two parter on their own.

Considering they still had venom and tombstone to ultimately deal with, throwing in the sinister six in there as well was a lil overkill. I mean why not throw the clone saga and man spider in there too.

You've just got to ask whether you felt it showed the six in their best light or in at least a better light than they were in as individuals. The six have a delicate story and unless properly showcase the team up lacks meaning.

Basically what their story is, is Doc Ock brings together a group of villains, that are very powerful, but can't work as a team; and that was shown in "Group Therapy."

Well, good thing it was properly showcased. Unlike a previous version where they were the Kingpin's flunkies.

t:

 

[UltimateJustin]

Pointing out that the same flaws exist in another show doesn't make it right in this one. I don't think anyone is arguing here that TAS is better anymore. That doesn't mean its still not a shame to have the S6 come in now instead of later when it would have been more dramatic and not in the midst of the symbiote story so that it could have been fleshed out.

TAS was a fun, instant submerging into Spider-Man's world. More is expected out of this show because it is story and character based. Weismen and them didn't get the greenlight for 26 episodes when they began work on this or there wouldnt be a "too soon" problem. They did their best with the symbiote angle but in the last episode when it all came to a head and Spidey got the realization that his friends are real and earned the will to overcome the suit, it fell a little flat for me. Thats because he just got the black suit on a wacky adventure with the Black Cat, fought the S6 and now dodged a call from Gwen Stacy, oh noooo. Ideally, he would have had the symbiote for an entire season, then we would have really had a climatic tower scene.

 

[November Rain]

Well, good thing it was properly showcased. Unlike a previous version where they were the Kingpin's flunkies.

Well I've always imagined a true sinister six story to have them undo themselves via ego and showing they ultimately can't work together.

This showed they could work together very well but symbiote spidey was just too good which ultimately lowers their combined and individual threat levels.

take this example from the batman, himself and robin take out their entire rogue's gallery in the space of 2 mins. it reduces their risk as individuals if seen later.

Luckily this is the last entry for plenty of villains and it was done in season four, (not 1).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wen8jLkeGHo&feature=related

ya get my drift?

 

[Silver Spider]

Well yeah, i'll go as far as to say in hindsight they did appear to early in both BUT i'll let the comics slide since the pacing back then was completely different.

a 13 ep series should have one underlying arc with a max of 3 mini arcs with some individual stories.

the six can carry a series, let alone a mini arc but to be crammed into a single ep of a venom arc only to serve the purpose of having the symbiote take them out while parker is asleep. Really, they could have used any villain under the sun for that, they weren't required.

They can hold their own season, but they don't need a whole season just to tell their story; personally I think they would need an arc, at the most. I thouight their appearance was well utilized in that episode. This isn't going to be their only appearance anyway, so they will have more time to develop later. I mean, Greg is all about development, right?

 

[Sarcastic Fan]

Well I've always imagined a true sinister six story to have them undo themselves via ego and showing they ultimately can't work together.

Actually, I thought it was refreshing that they defied this particular cliche.

 

[Silver Spider]

Well I've always imagined a true sinister six story to have them undo themselves via ego and showing they ultimately can't work together.

This showed they could work together very well but symbiote spidey was just too good which ultimately lowers their combined and individual threat levels.

When was it that they were working together very well? Just because they all hit the same guy doesn't mean they are working together well. Shocker's the only one who seemed to work with his teammates for the better, but he ultimately failed. With the exception of a few strategies by Shocker, they never successfully utilized each other's strengths to better combat Spider-man.

 

[Silver Spider]

Well I've always imagined a true sinister six story to have them undo themselves via ego and showing they ultimately can't work together.

This showed they could work together very well but symbiote spidey was just too good which ultimately lowers their combined and individual threat levels.

take this example from the batman, himself and robin take out their entire rogue's gallery in the space of 2 mins. it reduces their risk as individuals if seen later.

Luckily this is the last entry for plenty of villains and it was done in season four, (not 1).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wen8jLkeGHo&feature=related

ya get my drift?

I get what you're saying, that if he can beat them together now, then they don't seem as much as a threat alone. And that the Sinister Six's story shows that they are beaten, not by being weak, but by not working together properly.
But personally I think that was shown in "Group Therapy."

 

[November Rain]

Actually, I thought it was refreshing that they defied this particular cliche.

I personally don't believe six supervillains couldn't take a single hero in any confrontation.

the cliche is the only way i can stomach the story personally but to each their own.

 

[spida-man]

i'm surprised by people using venom as an argument, the real argument is the sinister six...

you don't throw the sinister six into the mix after revealing 8 villains, that's crazy too fast.

each one should have been stopped by spidey at least twice before even deciding he's too big a threat to take out individually and they NEED each other.

honestly, the only one missing that spidey hadn't fought was goblin and he made that a joke.

sinister six is season 3 material. I can't believe it wasn't even a two parter or a season finale, it was squeezed inside a venom arc. Really both storylines have a decent enough plot to hold their own time.

too fast.

WHY? in the original comics he fount each member of the sinister six only once before they joined together.

 

[November Rain]

When was it that they were working together very well? Just because they all hit the same guy doesn't mean they are working together well. Shocker's the only one who seemed to work with his teammates for the better, but he ultimately failed. With the exception of a few strategies by Shocker, they never successfully utilized each other's strengths to better combat Spider-man.

Their first confrontation with spidey along with aspects of their second. Big credit to shocker

but there certainly wasn't any egos flying while they were fighting. No one got mad at each other and they all had their eyes on the same prize which was taking out spidey. No one really jumped on anyone's territory and they were happy to co-operate with one another.

Their failing wasn't based on their ability to work with one another, rather than the symbiote was just that much better at taking them out swifty AND could also take a lot of punishment which they did give him and he kept coming back. I mean he took an explosion to the face, electric jolts that could knock out rhino as well as plenty of heavy blows initially.

they were ultimately unlucky.

 

[Silver Spider]

I personally don't believe six supervillains couldn't take a single hero in any confrontation.

the cliche is the only way i can stomach the story personally but to each their own.

I feel that way too. I always felt like, "how come he could barely beat the villains individually before, but now he can beat a whole team without an insane amount of hassle?" Sinister Six story has always explained it as that their weakness, is not in power, but in teamwork. My only opposing opinion with you, is that I thought that was utilized in "Group Therapy."

 

[Silver Spider]

Their first confrontation with spidey along with aspects of their second. Big credit to shocker

but there certainly wasn't any egos flying while they were fighting. No one got mad at each other and they all had their eyes on the same prize which was taking out spidey. No one really jumped on anyone's territory and they were happy to co-operate with one another.

Their failing wasn't based on their ability to work with one another, rather than the symbiote was just that much better at taking them out swifty AND could also take a lot of punishment which they did give him and he kept coming back. I mean he took an explosion to the face, electric jolts that could knock out rhino as well as plenty of heavy blows initially.

they were ultimately unlucky.

I saw the egos as more physical, as opposed to verbal. They didn't need to yell at each other to prove they were egotistical. You could see that they were all trying to take out Spidey themselves, but they got in each others way, which is what ultimately defeated them.

 

[November Rain]

WHY? in the original comics he fount each member of the sinister six only once before they joined together.

Again, I personally don't believe the comic way is always the gospel truth.

I mean they were all put away by spidey but they all had different goals and I don't believe many of them would have had that personal vendetta to put him out by now solely judging on their reactions in previous eps.

kinda like vulture, sandman and electro, even ock to a small extent since he was more interested in his power pack and osborn before. Shocker is purely a professional that wants a job finished and rhino was the only one that seemed really eager initially to personally take him out.

I guess maybe i feel a second apperance by at least some of them would really build up the angst. I would imagine a big man eployee would personally go against tombstone's orders and side with ock to get spidey out of the picture but i feel if the scores were big enough, some of them would have walked. Maybe they didn't make me believe spidey was as big a hinderance as they made him out to be.

I mean spidey wasn't really fussed 6 of his most deadly villains had come back to settle a score. If i had pissed off six people repeatedly and I saw them altogether, I'd **** my pants.

just a personal preference.

 

[November Rain]

I feel that way too. I always felt like, "how come he could barely beat the villains individually before, but now he can beat a whole team without an insane amount of hassle?" Sinister Six story has always explained it as that their weakness, is not in power, but in teamwork. My only opposing opinion with you, is that I thought that was utilized in "Group Therapy."

Well fair enough. I expected them to fair worse. If that was a normal spidey, they would have nailed him very early on physically. I didn't watch and didn't think they were unravelling as a team. Sure, they weren't perfectly polished but they were all commited.

I would have expected more sabotage from inside via spidey throwing junk around and messing with their heads. The foes he couldn't defeat physically are the ones where he needs peter parker's wit to unravel.

I guess I feel peter parker is as good a weapon as any of his other spidey powers and against the six is the greatest showcase of it. Keeping their minds on what the other apparently said or did to get them to lose focus or even start brawling with one another.

 

[November Rain]

I saw the egos as more physical, as opposed to verbal. They didn't need to yell at each other to prove they were egotistical. You could see that they were all trying to take out Spidey themselves, but they got in each others way, which is what ultimately defeated them.

I thought the symbiote was just too great a combatant at the end of the day. If a dude's willing to go all out like shocker did or strategise like ock (even though he lacks the ability to block), you really can't fault the group's attempts

 

[Silver Spider]

I'm not saying the plot device, of their inability to work together, was used perfectly, but I'm saying it was used in a nice way. This could possibly be foreshadowing how this plot device will be used more extensively later on in the series.

 

[UltimateJustin]

Of course, the "thats how it happend in the comics" argument doesnt work because the comic in question is close to fifty years old and things have changed alot as far as what flys and whats considered too off the wall. I havent read this one, but an image of JJJ in some sort of robot suit comes to mind.

 

[MattBearPig]

I think it boils down to two things...

1.)Kids have short attention spans and they need to keep throwing out these unique and colorful villains each week to keep their attention.

2.)They want to introduce all of the villains and supporting cast as early as possible so we can see how they develop over time.

 

[Sarcastic Fan]

I think it boils down to two things...

1.)Kids have short attention spans and they need to keep throwing out these unique and colorful villains each week to keep their attention.

2.)They want to introduce all of the villains and supporting cast as early as possible so we can see how they develop over time.

Option 2, yup. Each of those characters will be back, and developed.

 

[Venomfan]

why do people keep using the 90's TAS as a defence for a mistake this show made?

 

[Havok83]

Exactly, this show really is doing at the right time, which is towards the end of the first season.

How about they shouldnt even be doing it at all in the first season. They should just focus on Peter being regular SM and the black suit would be great towards the end of season 2 or even the season 3 opener with Venom as ongoing villian for that season's arc