Are We Too Cynical/Pessimistic These Days?

[terry78]

I think it's easier to say everyone is a stupid ******* as opposed to having hope about it changing. Is what it is.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Well, it's been 200,000 years. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice...

 

[Feenix]

If people want to change the world for the better, more power to them. But, I won't be guilted into donating for specific charities that I'm not personally passionate about. Most people don't have enough money to give to every charity that has a viral campaign or a commercial. You pick and choose what (and if) you want to donate. Not giving to charity doesn't make you a bad person, but then you can't criticize others for not doing it.

I'm cynical to the point that I don't believe we will ever be rid of war, famine, religion, and hatred and that sucks. But, I do my best to make my life and the lives of those around me as pleasant as possible. We're only on this earth for a few decades and then it's all over. That isn't much time to influence change unless you're someone who is in a position to be influential.

I say live a good life and hope that you can lead by example.

 

[-Arya-]

If people want to change the world for the better, more power to them. But, I won't be guilted into donating for specific charities that I'm not personally passionate about. Most people don't have enough money to give to every charity that has a viral campaign or a commercial. You pick and choose what (and if) you want to donate. Not giving to charity doesn't make you a bad person, but then you can't criticize others for not doing it.

I'm cynical to the point that I don't believe we will ever be rid of war, famine, religion, and hatred and that sucks. But, I do my best to make my life and the lives of those around me as pleasant as possible. We're only on this earth for a few decades and then it's all over. That isn't much time to influence change unless you're someone who is in a position to be influential.

I say live a good life and hope that you can lead by example.

Well said.

 

[Farren]

See I'm a cynic but I feel the opposite way about the sort of whining going on with the ice bucket challenge. To me, being a cynic means that I know that it's probably not the safest thing to do and yes it wastes water, but I just don't really care, because on the whole it's doing a good thing while doing very minimal harm. To me, being a cynic means knowing that yes, the world really does suck.

So when I see people complaining about wasted water and the fact that the world isn't perfect (seriously, going on tumblr and you'd think the world was in flames the way people go on and on, OMG I'M 15 AND IT'S 2014 AND THERE ARE STILL PROBLEMS HDU WORLD), I don't think those people are cynics. I think their expectations of humanity are way too high. Me, I know to keep them low. Work towards making things better? Sure, but staying real about it.

 

[SlamAdams]

If people want to change the world for the better, more power to them. But, I won't be guilted into donating for specific charities that I'm not personally passionate about. Most people don't have enough money to give to every charity that has a viral campaign or a commercial. You pick and choose what (and if) you want to donate. Not giving to charity doesn't make you a bad person, but then you can't criticize others for not doing it.

I'm cynical to the point that I don't believe we will ever be rid of war, famine, religion, and hatred and that sucks. But, I do my best to make my life and the lives of those around me as pleasant as possible. We're only on this earth for a few decades and then it's all over. That isn't much time to influence change unless you're someone who is in a position to be influential.

I say live a good life and hope that you can lead by example.

That's not cynicism, that's realism

 

[The Question]

If people want to change the world for the better, more power to them. But, I won't be guilted into donating for specific charities that I'm not personally passionate about. Most people don't have enough money to give to every charity that has a viral campaign or a commercial. You pick and choose what (and if) you want to donate. Not giving to charity doesn't make you a bad person, but then you can't criticize others for not doing it.

I'm cynical to the point that I don't believe we will ever be rid of war, famine, religion, and hatred and that sucks. But, I do my best to make my life and the lives of those around me as pleasant as possible. We're only on this earth for a few decades and then it's all over. That isn't much time to influence change unless you're someone who is in a position to be influential.

I say live a good life and hope that you can lead by example.

There was actually less war in the past ten years than any other decade in recorded human history. So I'm not so sure about that, we seem to be getting better by degrees.

 

[The Question]

Some stats on the subject:

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[DeadPresident]

There was actually less war in the past ten years than any other decade in recorded human history. So I'm not so sure about that, we seem to be getting better by degrees.

Unfortunately that's a split second in the broader consideration of human civilization, which seems to be characterized by violence and stupidity in large measure being combated by valiant attempts at enlightenment and progress... which are ultimately futile when it comes to improving the aggregate quality of human beings out there.

 

[The Question]

Unfortunately that's a split second in the broader consideration of human civilization, which seems to be characterized by violence and stupidity in large measure being combated by valiant attempts at enlightenment and progress... which are ultimately futile when it comes to improving the aggregate quality of human beings out there.

Except that it's been highly successful in improving the aggregate quality of human beings. Because it has. Because there's less war, less violent death, less poverty, less cancer, less infant mortality, and less a lot of bother awful things now than there has been for as long as we've been keeping count. And it's not some all of a sudden fluke, it's the result of a gradual trend of things getting less crummy.

 

[DeadPresident]

Quality of life =/= Moral, ethical quality of human being. If anything the decadence and opulence afforded to a large majority of people has made their moral centers even softer and more malleable.

There is no escaping the bell curve, the majority of society will just observe and reproduce whatever it sees without much question. The mechanisms may have changed, but instinctual and largely uncivilized human nature is still prevalent. As much as people may disguise it and try and rationalize it away, the pink elephant is that civilization is nothing but a convenient illusion right now. Occasionally it cracks and you can see beneath it though.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I just have a low opinion of the average human.

I once saw a list of all the averages, and it painted a very depressing picture. Granted it was the average American, who is more well off than the average human, but it was silly pretty damn depressing.

An IQ of 100, reads half a book a year, is religious, but not particularly knowledgable about that religion (can't name the first book of the Bible). Can only speak one language. Probably thinks he is only using 10 percent of his brain...

The list goes on.

 

[The Question]

Quality of life =/= Moral, ethical quality of human being. If anything the decadence and opulence afforded to a large majority of people has made their moral centers even softer and more malleable.

What does that mean?

There is no escaping the bell curve, the majority of society will just observe and reproduce whatever it sees without much question. The mechanisms may have changed, but instinctual and largely uncivilized human nature is still prevalent. As much as people may disguise it and try and rationalize it away, the pink elephant is that civilization is nothing but a convenient illusion right now. Occasionally it cracks and you can see beneath it though.

1: I mean, people are murdering each other less. People are doing few bad things. That's not to say that murder and bad things don't happen, but I don't see how you can call that disguising or rationalizing away bad behavior. It's pretty inarguably just less of it.

2: The phrase "Pink Elephant" refers to an alcoholic binge.

I just have a low opinion of the average human.

I once saw a list of all the averages, and it painted a very depressing picture. Granted it was the average American, who is more well off than the average human, but it was silly pretty damn depressing.

An IQ of 100, reads half a book a year, is religious, but not particularly knowledgable about that religion (can't name the first book of the Bible). Can only speak one language. Probably thinks he is only using 10 percent of his brain...

The list goes on.

Why does any of that really matter? Achievement and ability has little to do with how fundamentally good or bad a person is.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Well, there was that study of how a human can only have so much empathy, or only care about x amount of people.

I forget the name.

 

[The Question]

Well, there was that study of how a human can only have so much empathy, or only care about x amount of people.

I forget the name.

It's around 300. And it's a bit misleading. What it means is that the human brain is only capable of caring about around 300 people in a deeply personal and intimate way. As in, these are the people who's death would destroy you with grief and make you question your desire to continue living. We're only capable of feeling that way about around 300 people. The human brain is still more than capable of caring about much larger numbers of people in the abstract.

 

[DeadPresident]

What does that mean?

It means through massive exposure to the amounts of information through media people have become even more intellectually and contemplatively lazy. A lot less thinking and a lot more reproducing. I mean does the average individual even consider why exactly they do/believe/think half of the things they do? Or is it just "how things are"?

1: I mean, people are murdering each other less. People are doing few bad things. That's not to say that murder and bad things don't happen, but I don't see how you can call that disguising or rationalizing away bad behavior. It's pretty inarguably just less of it.

I'll agree with you there, there is somewhat less observable physical violence. But human beings have found other ways of manifesting their generally unsavory levels of morality. Emotional or psychological abuse being prominent among them.

Make no mistake, the average human being contributes very little in the way of improving people as a species. The bell curve maintains the status quo, no more, no less. It only takes one hour sitting on the bus/walking in a mall/around campus to be reminded of how predictable and unoriginal humans really are. Monkey see, monkey adjust slightly due to variable previous inputs and personality quirks, and then monkey do.

2: The phrase "Pink Elephant" refers to an alcoholic binge.

Also colloquially used to denote a topic that is undesirable to discuss.

 

[The Question]

It means through massive exposure to the amounts of information through media people have become even more intellectually and contemplatively lazy. A lot less thinking and a lot more reproducing. I mean does the average individual even consider why exactly they do/believe/think half of the things they do? Or is it just "how things are"?

I see no evidence of that.

I'll agree with you there, there is somewhat less observable physical violence. But human beings have found other ways of manifesting their generally unsavory levels of morality. Emotional or psychological abuse being prominent among them.

Emotional and psychological abuse is nothing new. People are just becoming more aware of it.

Make no mistake, the average human being contributes very little in the way of improving people as a species. The bell curve maintains the status quo, no more, no less. It only takes one hour sitting on the bus/walking in a mall/around campus to be reminded of how predictable and unoriginal humans really are. Monkey see, monkey adjust slightly due to variable previous inputs and personality quirks, and then monkey do.

1: Everything you say here is anecdotal.

2: Making the world better doesn't require grand gestures. At least, that's not all it requires. It also requires ordinary people doing small every day things to make things better. Spreading new ideas, treating people with respect, calling folks out on bad behavior. "Hastag activism" and casual every day acts of kindness may be drops in the bucket, but when there are hundreds of millions of drops in the bucket, you're going to fill it eventually.

Also colloquially used to denote a topic that is undesirable to discuss.

No it is not. You're thinking of "the elephant in the room."

 

[DeadPresident]

I see no evidence of that.

Suit yourself.

Emotional and psychological abuse is nothing new. People are just becoming more aware of it.

And yet it's existence is proof humans are moving in the same direction as always. Different methods, same motivations.

1: Everything you say here is anecdotal.

2: Making the world better doesn't require grand gestures. At least, that's not all it requires. It also requires ordinary people doing small every day things to make things better. Spreading new ideas, treating people with respect, calling folks out on bad behavior. "Hastag activism" and casual every day acts of kindness may be drops in the bucket, but when there are hundreds of millions of drops in the bucket, you're going to fill it eventually.

Ordinary people do those small good things. But the state of the world would suggest those things aren't enough. Hundreds of millions of good gestures don't stack up against billions of small human crimes each day.

The fact that more people are happy with the world than the ones that seem to find problems with it is equal indication that there is actually little change. It's a good rule to be highly skeptical of something questionable when the majority are in favor of it.

No it is not. You're thinking of "the elephant in the room."

If you insist. My elephant will remain pink. It makes more contextual sense that a pink elephant would be more noticeable than a normal one and would be more peculiar...otherwise it might just be a normal house trained pet elephant.

 

[The Question]

Suit yourself.

Are you going to maybe try to provide some evidence to back up what you're saying?

And yet it's existence is proof humans are moving in the same direction as always. Different methods, same motivations.

Except it isn't proof of that. It's not different. It's not new. It's always been around. People are now just becoming more aware of it and are actively combatting it when they weren't before.

Ordinary people do those small good things. But the state of the world would suggest those things aren't enough. Hundreds of millions of good gestures don't stack up against billions of small human crimes each day.

Except that there are less of those small human crimes now than there ever were before. So clearly we're making some progress.

The fact that more people are happy with the world than the ones that seem to find problems with it is equal indication that there is actually little change. It's a good rule to be highly skeptical of something questionable when the majority are in favor of it.

Except there are verifiable statistics that prove that things are better than they used to be. The majority feeling a certain way about something is not equal to hard cold data.

 

[DeadPresident]

We'll just agree to disagree then, this isn't something quantifiable or based in cold hard data, humans are too idiosyncratic for that. It's my personal experience, and one I seem to share with some posters on this forum so I can't be the only yahoo off on a tangent. There are certain people who are optimistic about the future, and that's great. And there are others who want less and less to do with people the more and more they see of them. I fall into the latter group.

I find it lamentable that the one species with the ability to exercise choice over each and every decision is the same species that ignores that possibility so often.

 

[Alex_Spider]

What scares me the most is not the cynicists and pessimistic persons. It is the ignorant and unaware masses that live only for the moment to stand in the line for the next shiny version of iPad and don't have a clue nor care about the humanitarian and environmental crisis that are taking place in a large portion of the planet.

I don't know if the world is a better place than it was before. Surely, the WW II ended and we don't burn people for witchcraft anymore. But there are still horrible things going on just in a smaller scale and on a regular basis.

In a world where 1 % of the population owns 40% of the planet's wealth, where 34,000 children die every single day from poverty and preventable diseases, and where 50% of the world's population lives on less than 2 dollars a day, we can't settle for what we have now. We should always strive for more improvement.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

People who believe that the Vatican is involved with the mass consumption of children and offer up no evidence to such a claim what so ever... People like that, their opinion on almost anything is suspect, I think. Call me cynical.

 

[Alex_Spider]

People who believe that the Vatican is involved with the mass consumption of children and offer up no evidence to such a claim what so ever... People like that, their opinion on almost anything is suspect, I think. Call me cynical.

When exactly did I stated that the Vatican eats children 100% as a fact?
I said powerful and rich groups in the likes of the Vatican "might" "could possibly" be involved with similar activities. Big difference there.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

OK... How would you feel about if I stated point blank: "I think it's possible that Alex_Spider has brain damage. His posts tell me this might be true." Then when asked for evidence I offer up none and cover my ass by saying stuff like, "It's just logical and you all are going to have to grasp that..."? Dude... you know very well that wouldn't be kosher (or halal either).

I always think you are passionate A_S, and your heart is in the right place most of the time, but frankly, your attitude and view point on the world is this terrible mix of both naive idealism and the worst kind of incredulous, populous cynical bovine excrement that too often all you back up with is that "It must be so... It's just like movie/tv show/comic book/novel X." The problem in the world is neither idealism or cynicism, but that too often WE AS INDIVIDUALS rubber band from one extreme to the other, and I think most of your posts are a perfect example of this.

 

[Alex_Spider]

OK... How would you feel about if I stated point blank: "I think it's possible that Alex_Spider has brain damage. His posts tell me this might be true." Then when asked for evidence I offer up none and cover my ass by saying stuff like, "It's just logical and you all are going to have to grasp that..."? Dude... you know very well that wouldn't be kosher (or halal either).

What's so absurd about speculating that a powerful group of people are capable of everything? Because we don't have evidence?
Even if the Vatican doesn't eat children, exactly what kind of altrouistic purpose does it serve other than accumulating a ridiculous amount of wealth and have influence over political figures. Working towards saving our souls?
They're just another sinister group that don't really give a damn about their fellow human being, otherwise they would share all their wealth and possesions with the poor.

I always think you are passionate A_S, and your heart is in the right place most of the time, but frankly, your attitude and view point on the world is this terrible mix of both naive idealism and the worst kind of incredulous, populous cynical bovine excrement that too often all you back up with is that "It must be so... It's just like movie/tv show/comic book/novel X." The problem in the world is neither idealism or cynicism, but that too often WE AS INDIVIDUALS rubber band from one extreme to the other, and I think most of your posts are a perfect example of this.

Yeah, some movies like Snowpiercer and the Matrix are great metaphors about the current state of the world and can send a message to the mainstream public which otherwise wouldn't bother or care what's going on in the world.