Are your Civil Liberties Under Attack? Discussion

[MessiahDecoy123]

NSA leaders divided on whether they should give Snowden amnesty.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nsa-leaders-split-on-giving-amnesty-to-snowden/

 

[rstarr14]

yes

 

[Thundercrack85]

Amnesty seriously? Oh NSA... Man, Snowden's lucky he didn't steal files from the CIA, or some real intelligence agency.

Yeah NSA, you heard me.

I think Snowden has burned one too many bridges to come back. What with running into the arms of America's old archenemy.

 

[wiegeabo]

Outsiders advisers are urging Obama to curb the NSA

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/19/us/politics/report-on-nsa-surveillance-tactics.html?_r=0


So, one of the author's of the Patriot Act says the NSA has gone too far.
A federal judge has now ruled the NSA has gone too far.
And Obama advisors have said the NSA has gone too far.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I wonder if Obama knows the difference between the NSA and his National Security Advisor.

 

[wiegeabo]

...that would explain a lot

 

[mikey1974]

I wonder if Obama knows the difference between the NSA and his National Security Advisor.

this literally made me do a LOL spittake!

 

[Cosmic]

I wonder if Obama knows the difference between the NSA and his National Security Advisor.

Sources say the President was informed of the distinction between the two in his meeting with the Intelligence Review Board earlier this week.

 

[Cosmic]

On a more serious note, I admit that I was wrong to call Snowden a coward. Right or wrong, if he hadn't leaked the info on PRISM and various other shenanigans, then most people either wouldn't know, care, or believe that it was happening. Also, this review of national intelligence operations wouldn't even be happening right now.

 

[Cosmic]

New York Times: Snowden 'justified,' deserves lighter punishment

Reuters
11:40 a.m. CST, January 2, 2014


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. government should grant former NSA contractor Edward Snowden clemency or a plea bargain given the public value of revelations over the National Security Agency's vast spying programs, the New York Times editorial board said on Thursday.

In its lead editorial, the newspaper said Americans now more fully understand how widely their phone calls, emails and other information are tracked. Information provided to journalists by Snowden has also prompted needed legal review of the intelligence gathering and led a presidential panel to call for a major overhaul of the agency, it said.

"Considering the enormous value of the information he has revealed, and the abuses he has exposed, Mr. Snowden deserves better than a life of permanent exile, fear and flight. He may have committed a crime to do so, but he has done his country a great service," the New York Times' editorial board wrote.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...snowden-newyorktimes-20140102,0,4336990.story

 

[Destructus86]

I don't think anyone, besides those in extreme denial can ignore the fact that in recent years we have seen more and more freedoms removed or stepped on. And I believe this will continue to be a trend. Obama is not entirely to blame...our bloated government is out of control and does what it seems fit. Obama has played a big part of it though. This country is significantly different than it was 10 years ago.

What will it be like 10 years form now? Implants? Full government surviellance? (almost there) Corporate controlled internet access? (oops...too late on that one) Full gun ban. (I'm not a fan of guns, but the right to own a gun is important) The disolving of freedom of religion. Government police forces. (already happening in some parts of the country quietly)

What we once considered the stuff of conspiracy nuts we are seeing slowly develop in real life.

 

[Feenix]

I don't think anyone, besides those in extreme denial can ignore the fact that in recent years we have seen more and more freedoms removed or stepped on. And I believe this will continue to be a trend. Obama is not entirely to blame...our bloated government is out of control and does what it seems fit. Obama has played a big part of it though. This country is significantly different than it was 10 years ago.

What will it be like 10 years form now? Implants? Full government surviellance? (almost there) Corporate controlled internet access? (oops...too late on that one) Full gun ban. (I'm not a fan of guns, but the right to own a gun is important) The disolving of freedom of religion. Government police forces. (already happening in some parts of the country quietly)

What we once considered the stuff of conspiracy nuts we are seeing slowly develop in real life.

I don't think so. I just think with the technology we have today, that it's much more obvious what the government does. Leak files on the internet, hidden cameras, cell phones, etc. So much is no longer a secret. I don't think that the country has changed, I just think everyone is now aware of it's secrets.

As for your other points, I highly doubt the US will ban guns. They didn't do anything after the Newton shootings. The NRA has too much power. The guns will still be there in 10 years.

The freedom of religion thing is exaggerated. What is happening is that extremists on all sides are going at it and some are hiding under the guise of "persecution." It's total crap. Your religion is safe.

Government police forces goes back to the point I made about cell phones and cameras. Everything is caught on camera now. Just because we didn't see it before doesn't mean it wasn't always there, we just have instant access to the worst of it.

 

[The End]

You know what really baffles me?


How stupid people are. It baffles me how little foresight people in general have.

Did people seriously not see this sort of thing coming when the Patriot Act came in?

 

[Thundercrack85]

Well, to invoke V for Vendetta, who's to blame?

Sure, there are the opportunistic reactionaries in the congress. But who put them there? Who allowed it to happen? There wasn't a coup.

These people were voted in.

 

[wiegeabo]

People were driven by fear over logic. Still are, unfortunately

 

[mikey1974]

You know what really baffles me?


How stupid people are. It baffles me how little foresight people in general have.

Did people seriously not see this sort of thing coming when the Patriot Act came in?

cause they were very calculating when it came to the Patriot Act - if you opposed it,you sided with the terrorists was the general mantra in the post-9/11 early 21st Century. and,of course,no politicians at the time wanted anyone from the Bush administration throwing that accusation their way.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Well, to invoke V for Vendetta, who's to blame?

Sure, there are the opportunistic reactionaries in the congress. But who put them there? Who allowed it to happen? There wasn't a coup.

These people were voted in.

Who can we vote for who isn't already fully indoctrinated and sponsor approved?

Any one can show up at try outs but only those who "play ball" have any chance at making the team.

 

[conan69]

I don't think anyone, besides those in extreme denial can ignore the fact that in recent years we have seen more and more freedoms removed or stepped on. And I believe this will continue to be a trend. Obama is not entirely to blame

I wish alot of the youngsters today could have been around when I grew up during the 70s and 80s. It was like a completely different country then. No exaggeration.

The irony is that those who grew up with so much freedom have spent the past 2 decades taking it away from everyone else, and constantly telling them what they can and cant do and how they should be living their lives.

America is finished people. It passed the point of no return awhile ago.

 

[Figs]

I don't think anyone, besides those in extreme denial can ignore the fact that in recent years we have seen more and more freedoms removed or stepped on. And I believe this will continue to be a trend. Obama is not entirely to blame...our bloated government is out of control and does what it seems fit. Obama has played a big part of it though. This country is significantly different than it was 10 years ago.

What will it be like 10 years form now? Implants? Full government surviellance? (almost there) Corporate controlled internet access? (oops...too late on that one) Full gun ban. (I'm not a fan of guns, but the right to own a gun is important) The disolving of freedom of religion. Government police forces. (already happening in some parts of the country quietly)

What we once considered the stuff of conspiracy nuts we are seeing slowly develop in real life.

I completely agree and although I've never been an Obama fan, people that solely blame him need to wake up. I'm at the point to where I'm sad and a bit worried how many people today are so PC and super sensitive that they don't care on voting on things that involve restricting or taking away freedoms. A lot of them are smaller but that's how things start. As you mentioned with the full on gun ban, that will happen. Wanting to ban and restrict Americans from being able to buy any gun that isn't a handgun, rifle or shot gun is the first step. When they achieve that, they'll start to work on finding reasons to ban all guns eventually. I agree with you the most on the fact that some people out there are in extreme denial. They tend to write all of this off as some kind of conspiracy theory but it's not something like the world banks wanting to rule all or 9/11 was in inside job, the removal of our freedoms over the years are out in the open and right in our face.

 

[Steamteck]

Look at all the small government Republicans voting for big government's ability to spy on everyone.

There aren't any small government Republicans anymore. Everyone in both parties seems for intrusive big government about their pet causes.

 

[Steamteck]

Who can we vote for who isn't already fully indoctrinated and sponsor approved?

Any one can show up at try outs but only those who "play ball" have any chance at making the team.

Those who have a shot at protecting our liberties or just being decent always seem to have a "scandal". No real proof or charges but ruins them anyway.

 

[wiegeabo]

So, good news. The NSA helps spy on webcams and collect the sexy and nude images.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/02/spy-agency-intercepts-yahoo-webcam-chats-nudes-and-all/

Oh, wait. Did I say 'good'?

 

[The Overlord]

I think the problem is, a lot of people voted for Obama hoping he would start to dismantle the national security surveillance state that appeared right after 9/11, but he didn't, in some ways he made it worse. The Bush administration may have started these policies, but Obama has furthered them. That is why many consider him a disappointment. It seems like entrenched government agencies like the NSA can do whatever they want, no matter who is President. Doesn't say much about democracy in America.

 

[wiegeabo]

You gotta love it. Spying in US citizens is perfectly ok. But spy on the Senate, and Feinstein throws a fit.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/senator-cia-improperly-searched-computer-network


And by "gotta love it" I mean "I'm sick that she's still my senator"

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I wonder why the CIA would spy on the senate.

Who do these powerful spy agencies work for and how do we know their goals are noble?