At what point did you know DCEU was failing ?

[Zarex]

When they announced they were going to turn the classic story of the final confrontation between Batman and Superman into their initial meeting.

 

[RomanticPenguin]

when i saw lex do the "ding ding ding ding ding" with snot dripping from his nose

when I saw joker's damaged tattoo that had me hella worried also

 

[The Joker]

Definitely with BvS. It was a blatant desperate attempt to fast track themselves into an established universe of characters to play catch up with the MCU. They didn't care about quality. It was all about getting to their version of the Avengers with Justice League A.S.A.P.

 

[WereCoyote]

When they tried to do in 1 movie what took the MCU 5 movies to do.

 

[Boy Scout]

The reception to DOJ was a pretty big hint.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I like a lot of what we've had so far (although I've yet to see JL), but as far as the DCEU not being as successful an enterprise as it should have been...

When Batman vs Superman couldn’t even cross the billion dollar mark

I think the writing on the DCEU wall was clear when BvS came out and it got panned.

Yeah, those were pretty big indicators.

Other things that rang alarm bells;

1. Eisenberg's Lex (really didn't like Adams' Lois either, but that's just a personal thing - I didn't see it as a bar to success)
2. Going with an older Batman - interesting take, but pretty short-sighted for a long-game ongoing universe
3. Doomsday/DoS in only Supes second film
4. Taking so much from TDKReturns for a story set so early in the DCEU.
These last two, they take major points/imagery from two tales set well into their heroes careers - tales that there are fans clamoring to see properly adapted at some point - and use them as their launch point? I don't get it.

With regards to Snyder, I like him. But the guy seems to be the poster boy for 'divisive' film-making and if audiences aren't on board with what he's doing he needs to go (which seems to be what's happened). I entirely agree with whoever said that WB should have bitten the bullet and delayed JL until a replacement was found.

Man, cut me and I bleed DC but some of their decision-making leaves me dumbfounded.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Well, I think JL failed not bc BvS couldn't cross billion mark, but because BvS was a terrible film.

JL is a weird movie to me. Its been months since I saw it and can't determine if I like it or not. On one hand, its seriously 10% as good as what MCU gave us with Avengers (2012). Its not that great of a film. But on the other, at least we got a JL movie and it wasnt THAT bad as critics made it out to be. I found it an average but entertaining film with very little character development and very little emotional impact. I wouldn't bash JL as much as BvS or Suicide Squad, but I would say MCU's worst movie is still prolly equal to JL, imo.... Thats a crazy thing to me, as I would have never predicted that. When growing up, I thought it would be the most epic thing in the world if Batman and Superman shared the big screen. And when I finally got it, it sucked. And even when JL came out, its not like I was excited to see the characters together anymore. Instead, I was thinking "i hope this isn't going to be terrible again" thoughts before the movie. I would have really loved Nolan's Batman vs. Superman with Christian Bale vs. Henry Cavill - I think they would be awesome on screen together. Ben Affleck is okay Bruce Wayne / Batman, but not nearly as much as a presence as Bale. I think in 20 years, when superhero genre slows down like westerns back in the 60s and 70s, ppl are going to wonder what if they did JL right and didnt rush it to compete with a rival studio.

I dont hate JL , I would just never call it a good film. I would prolly end up calling it a guilty pleasure, the same way I feel about Spider-Man 3 which is a complete mess and terrible film - but I always am entertained by it.

I should have implied that I think BvS was horrendous

Movies sucked therefore it underperformed and affected JL.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

What are you talking about? Snyder's incarcerated cut would've made more than the Avengers. And you know it....

#freesnyderscut

 

[Primal Slayer]

30 minutes into BvS.

 

[RomanticPenguin]

"30 minutes into BvS"

 

[Darkraid]

When they tried to do in 1 movie what took the MCU 5 movies to do.

Exactly, if Marvel did an Avengers movie before they did Iron Man, Thor and Cap, it would have failed miserably.

There wasn't any planning and more of trying to ride the bandwagon.

 

[InfinityWar]

As soon as Batman v Superman was announced.

I was actually super excited when they announced this and the first trailer, I thought it was going to be one of the best cbm of all time....Boy oh boy....How wrong I was. It actually was green lantern level bad, imo. Not Catwoman or Elektra bad, but def Green Lantern bad.

 

[the last son]

I loved Man of Steel but once I saw that Doomsday bvs trailer and images of Batman gunning dudes down I knew this universe was over.

 

[unholyrevenger]

It's not failing though... JL still made more more money than any phase 1 mcu movie sans avengers. The only place the DCEU is hated is on the internet. To most people it's just OK. The MCU only has one good phase 1 movie, Iron Man, the rest are mediocre (Thor, Cap, Avengers) controversial (IM2) or bad (IH). One good and one entertaining movie out of six seems to be more than enough to hold people over. If WB reigns in on the budgets and these movies start making sub 450 million then you can put the writing on the wall.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

It's not failing though... JL still made more more money than any phase 1 mcu movie sans avengers. The only place the DCEU is hated is on the internet. To most people it's just OK.

I don't know all the box office numbers but I agree in essence with what you're saying. The argument usually trotted out though is that in this current 'golden era' of CBMs DC's A-listers could have been reasonably expected to make more, and whilst I'm DC to the core and think that sometimes CBM box office anticipation gets a bit over-optimistic, nevertheless I find it hard to disagree with the general point. As I said above, I like the movies - but with the exception of Wonder Woman something in the DCEU is definitely missing the mark. And some of their creative decisions have been surprising, to say the least.

 

[Skrilla31]

For me it was the day I saw Man of Steel.

They really fooled me with those trailers.

It's so funny because I remember even after the trailers came out there was a small subset of fans warning everyone about Snyder. I didn't wanna believe them because I was so sold on the marketing.

But man I knew 5 minutes into the movie that we in for a bumpy ride.

 

[unholyrevenger]

The argument usually trotted out though is that in this current 'golden era' of CBMs DC's A-listers could have been reasonably expected to make more.

Using A list characters is the fundamental problem. Even the general audience has preconceptions about Superman and Batman. When those preconceptions aren't met, fans turn toxic and the general audience remains ambivalent. The MCU built their world with characters the general audience didn't give a **** about so writers could do what they wanted with the characters to make them like-able. Then there is the idealization problem where DC characters are suppose to uphold some ideal, hope, love, compassion, courage, justice, whatever. And those stories are harder to tell than the "with great power, comes great responsibility" fable Marvel tells with every origin/introduction stand alone movie.

 

[AverageMan]

My hype levels for BvS were through the roof. For weeks and months leading up to that, that was all I could think about. I remember reading critics reviews & I was crestfallen. I didn't want to believe them.

 

[Flint Marko]

Using A list characters is the fundamental problem. Even the general audience has preconceptions about Superman and Batman. When those preconceptions aren't met, fans turn toxic and the general audience remains ambivalent. The MCU built their world with characters the general audience didn't give a **** about so writers could do what they wanted with the characters to make them like-able. Then there is the idealization problem where DC characters are suppose to uphold some ideal, hope, love, compassion, courage, justice, whatever. And those stories are harder to tell than the "with great power, comes great responsibility" fable Marvel tells with every origin/introduction stand alone movie.

The pre-conceptions argument has always been over blown. It's not like they turned Superman into a rapist or Batman into a nazi or anything ridiculous like that. They just presented more Snyderized, "grimdark" versions of said characters and their world. That certainly didn't endear this franchise to audiences, but it's not why they rejected it either.

A good movie could overcome preconceptions.

 

[DrCosmic]

When BvS got delayed.

MoS' divisiveness was just one hero. My favorite, sure, but when they announced they were jumping straight to fighting Batman instead of a sequel, I knew they were never going to deliver on the promise of Superman and were running back to the safety of Batman, but that could have just bee a coincidence, it made them a lesser universe than Marvel, in my eyes, but not a *failure*. The delay however confirmed that they really didn't know what they were doing, and the DCCU was doomed. So when the trailer for BvS came out, I was not disappointed, because my expectations were so low, and they never rose again.

 

[Flint Marko]

When BvS got delayed.

MoS' divisiveness was just one hero. My favorite, sure, but when they announced they were jumping straight to fighting Batman instead of a sequel, I knew they were never going to deliver on the promise of Superman and were running back to the safety of Batman, but that could have just bee a coincidence, it made them a lesser universe than Marvel, in my eyes, but not a *failure*. The delay however confirmed that they really didn't know what they were doing, and the DCCU was doomed. So when the trailer for BvS came out, I was not disappointed, because my expectations were so low, and they never rose again.

My expectations briefly rose after that first comic-con trailer. I had spent so much of my time here complaining about how disappointed I was in the direction they were taking - hiring back Snyder, throwing Batman and a ton of world-building into the mix, etc - but I just tried to say, "screw it, I hope it's good. Please be good."

The Doomsday trailer is about what killed that hype for me.

 

[Erzengel]

I don't know all the box office numbers but I agree in essence with what you're saying. The argument usually trotted out though is that in this current 'golden era' of CBMs DC's A-listers could have been reasonably expected to make more, and whilst I'm DC to the core and think that sometimes CBM box office anticipation gets a bit over-optimistic, nevertheless I find it hard to disagree with the general point. As I said above, I like the movies - but with the exception of Wonder Woman something in the DCEU is definitely missing the mark. And some of their creative decisions have been surprising, to say the least.

Add to that that Marvel had to sell characters (besides the Hulk) who's only representation to mass audience was through older cartoons, supporting roles in and direct to "VHS" movies.

Those characters had to be built up as opposed to DCEU with their Top 3, who've had multiple movies, live action representation and animation.

Now look at the box office difference between IM & IM3, TFA & CW, Thor and Ragnarok.

In terms of DCEU failing? I would say for a major studio who's have multiple successful franchises, the fact that we are where we are with this franchise is mind boggling. Heads of studios and executives stepping down, directors being dismissed, release dates being canceled or constantly moving back, this doesn't look like a studio who knows what it's doing. It's more like, let's just get something out and rely on the director to put out something good.

 

[DrCosmic]

My expectations briefly rose after that first comic-con trailer. I had spent so much of my time here complaining about how disappointed I was in the direction they were taking - hiring back Snyder, throwing Batman and a ton of world-building into the mix, etc - but I just tried to say, "screw it, I hope it's good. Please be good."

The Doomsday trailer is about what killed that hype for me.

That Doomsday Trailer was a heck of a nail in the coffin, huh?

That Comic Con trailer was the one with "the Red Capes are coming?" Yeah, that actually dashed whatever hope I had left that they'd do an awesome Luthor, because I believe Eisenberg had it in him. SMH.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Suicide Squad. Of course, the whole BvS situation was already a huge argument that WB didn't put much thinking into building their cinematic universe, but Suicide Squad was like a "we have no ****ing clue what we're doing" neon sign.

 

[Galactus123]

When they announced Batman v Superman. It was a bad idea in my opinion. It was too soon and I wanted Man of Steel 2.