Atheism : Love it or Leave it?

[Captain_BluTac]

I want the rapture to hurry up and come there is some people I wanna get smote

 

[Bill]

The Bible hasn't been proven to be wrong. As I showed months ago, Genesis chapter one (in relation to the creation of the earth and heavens/universe), where so many said had problems, didn't have any problems at all. And nor does the rest of the Bible.

 

[Bill]

After reading this thread, I'd say... most likely.

Here, here. I was born there. Hope is not lost for all of us. (although I did keep away from the paint chips)

 

[Zoken]

I understand that, but what most don't seem to be grasping is that they're still trying to solve a spiritual puzzle with the intellect, and it doesn't work that way. Issues of a spiritual nature must be solved with the spirit, not exclusively the mind.

All problems of origin, cause, and truth are equal parts intelectual and spiritual. thus you trying to claim an answer derived soley from spiritual evidence would be as asinine as them using only intellectual evidence.

Notice the word "usually" in that definition. Jesus, on the other hand, used truth in His parables to illustrate a moral point.

Jesus used short stories about no one to make his points. They are quite like Aesop's fables. (You don't really think a tortise and Hare set up a race do you?)

The term "lesser light" could refer to the fact that moonlight is dimmer; in that context, the Scripture is accurate.

The bible still refers to the moon as a light in it's own right. How I might have argued that is that neither light refers to the sun or moon, but to the amount of light present. greater amounts of light in the day (regardless of source) and Lesser (but still present) amounts of light in the night.

 

[teseract]

I understand that, but what most don't seem to be grasping is that they're still trying to solve a spiritual puzzle with the intellect, and it doesn't work that way. Issues of a spiritual nature must be solved with the spirit, not exclusively the mind.

Hmm, yeah I guess chemistry, geology and all that other scientific mumbo jumbo has nothing to do with earth and the universe at all.

 

[teseract]

Serpents do feed on small animals which were created of the "dust of the Earth", so the Bible's not wrong on that point. The moon may reflect the light of the sun, but God did describe it as the "lesser light", which reigns during the night hours. As for rabbits, they actually do eat vegetables in the wild.

My good man, if you could bend, wiggle and distort you body as well as you can do it with words and meaning, you could take a thorough look at the hairs around your sphincter with a magnifying glass

 

[teseract]

So says a method of science that in barely over a century has never been proven 100% reliable.

Why do I always get the urge to prohibit people, making these kind of stupid remarks, from using something created through scientific means for the rest of their lives?

 

[squeekness]

I take the same viewpoint on it that a lot of people who post on the talkorigins usenet boards. The information isn't for the close-minded people who post, but the open-minded who lurk and may share some of those views but are willing to learn or at least research it further.

I don't intend to change someone who's mind is so closed that it can't even accept the truth when it stares them in the face. But there exists a lot of people who may not know what atheism is(although, hopefully not as many as before), what evolution means or how geology works and may be afraid to ask. Debate it out for them.

I agree that civilized debate is good, not just for lurkers but for anyone. It keeps the mind sharp and (usually) opens the mind to new possiblities.

Reality is based on perception eggomatic!

Investigation may prove difficult with the board transitions, along with your continual recognition of such observations pertaining directly to your history as a hypster...

but honestly my fellow snow surfin ninja Embryo of Oneness... Post counts are irrellevant,

the only one that counts are the ones your currently reading.

sure, yoda will tivo the hype but what good does that do for those who don't remember posts within their context,

if you were there for the L.O.O., the the little bald board sweep, my battles with BMCL over spiderman wrist ejaculate or greasy nubbins then you were there, if you weren't then it is not a part of your reality. an inflated number does not confer anything, including an ability to spell! you could research but the sense of suddeness that current events provoke is immeasureable in its difference then opening a stale can of pringle posts looking for answers...

i do not belive the older posts exist, would i be insane to just randomly claim i had more then 5000 posts in 2 hours somewhere back there? anything can be said my friend and if you want to battle me for my free speech we can thumb wrestle about it with the hand neither you or I masterbate with. The raw truth is, a Post count pulls you from what your doing right now...

the quest to be prolific on a messagebaord fills us all for a time, and somewhere along the way we realize that the post counts affect our ability to play in the playground as an innocent insect, evolving with the hive... ever present but never prominent...

for celebrity surely brings us all down Mr. Scrambles... but if you lurk in the shadows like some sort of Eggwhite ommelette on the steakhouse menu... youll find that you cannot be removed, because people are rediculous in their choice for healthy experience.

Eggman, we may never know whats in store for the future... but i bet its some sort of pill that turns into a delectable meal when you add a drop of water, the future man... has tentacles, and it will carress you sweetly

...Beware

Okay, now this hurt my brain.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Serpents do feed on small animals which were created of the "dust of the Earth", so the Bible's not wrong on that point. The moon may reflect the light of the sun, but God did describe it as the "lesser light", which reigns during the night hours. As for rabbits, they actually do eat vegetables in the wild.

by that reasoning man also was meant to eat the animals, so then how is that a curse on the serpent? that's a lie Moviefan and you know it
"eat dust" means "eat dust " plain and simple.

describing the moon as a " lesser light" is stupid, and God should know that the Moon reflects light not creates it, but hey, people in the past DIDN'T know that, so...yeah, that explains it doesn't it?

and eating vegetables and chewing cud are two different things.

hahahahaha! next.

 

[Gilpesh]

I agree that civilized debate is good, not just for lurkers but for anyone. It keeps the mind sharp and (usually) opens the mind to new possiblities.

Notice how in that definition it says usually. Judge, the defense rests, COUNT IT! [/Moviefan]


But really, after this thread I now know that agnostic isn't a third option but a sub-species of atheists and theists. Also that when debating, you can't put Science to Religion because that's like Mike Tyson beating up a handicap, mentally-challenged kid, even though the kid asked for it by continuously bumping his chair into Tyson's legs, and yet in the end it is still Tyson who looks like the bad guy.

 

[Zoken]

Wow Gil... that... that metaphor works so well.

 

[squeekness]

I dunno, in my middle of the road way, I think there can be a reconciliation between science and religion. I find that in most cases, scientific discovery only enhances my faith. I suppose that's easy for me since I don't take the Bible literally. I don't have to worry about explaining dinosaurs and dust eating snakes. I do look at the splendor of a rain forest and think that such a wonderful thing could never have happened by accident. I see elephants caring for their young and african dogs caring for their elderly and I see the Spirit there. I guess I would like think that perhaps the real truth lies somewhere in betwen religion and science, we just haven't discovered it yet is all.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

I dunno, in my middle of the road way, I think there can be a reconciliation between science and religion. I find that in most cases, scientific discovery only enhances my faith. I suppose that's easy for me since I don't take the Bible literally. I don't have to worry about explaining dinosaurs and dust eating snakes. I do look at the splendor of a rain forest and think that such a wonderful thing could never have happened by accident. I see elephants caring for their young and african dogs caring for their elderly and I see the Spirit there. I guess I would like think that perhaps the real truth lies somewhere in betwen religion and science, we just haven't discovered it yet is all.

The interesting part is, however,...I agree with you, that there's no way all of this complexity just spontaneously appeared out of nothingness.

BUT, when I look at nature, I don't just see "splendor".
I see a freaking Hellish NIGHTmare!

Have you ever watched the slow, torturous way 3 lions pick away at a weak baby zebra till it's finally so weak that it just falls down, still alive while they start disemboweling it?

Parasites that invade another's body and debilitate them from inside...

I saw a male gorilla, pissed off that a female had a baby, so he he just ran up, grabbed the baby by it's feet and started slamming it's head into a rock savagely until it's head was a soupy pulp, and then he put it down, dead, and ran away...and then the mother stopped screaming and came to the lifeless body of the baby and was clearly heartbroken and confused as Hell.



If you want to look at the order and see a God, cool, but let's not forget that it would make him responsible for all the Horrors and Pain on this nightmare planet of Death and Decay and Sorrow.

 

[moraldeficiency]

BUT, when I look at nature, I don't just see "splendor".
I see a freaking Hellish NIGHTmare!

Have you ever watched the slow, torturous way 3 lions pick away at a weak baby zebra till it's finally so weak that it just falls down, still alive while they start disemboweling it?

Parasites that invade another's body and debilitate them from inside...

I saw a male gorilla, pissed off that a female had a baby, so he he just ran up, grabbed the baby by it's feet and started slamming it's head into a rock savagely until it's head was a soupy pulp, and then he put it down, dead, and ran away...and then the mother stopped screaming and came to the lifeless body of the baby and was clearly heartbroken and confused as Hell.

If you want to look at the order and see a God, cool, but let's not forget that it would make him responsible for all the Horrors and Pain on this nightmare planet of Death and Decay and Sorrow.

I guess it depends on your perspective. You see this "nightmare" because your human. To a lion I'm sure that zebra looks delicious. To gorilla's I'm sure smashing your baby into a rock is very similiar to what they do to female babies in china.

God/Science who really cares? Does believing or not believing really make someone's life easier? Whatever you choose to "believe" in is just a crutch to make the world make sense to you. If god, great then things magically happen that you can't really figure out. If science, then things are far too complex to understand but that doesn't stop people from devoting their lives to finding out how much they don't know about anything.

We're just stupid humans incapable of seeing anything from any perspective but our own. How could we possibly be capable of understanding what god wants or what natural order is?

You want a real solution? Stop trying to figure out what's right and wrong, go to a bar, get sloppy drunk and make some questionable decisions. You'll understand just as much about god as that guy devoutedly attending church or as much science as some moron measuring icecaps in weather too cold to piss in and you'll be a happier man (well depending on the questionable decisions) for it.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

I guess it depends on your perspective. You see this "nightmare" because your human. To a lion I'm sure that zebra looks delicious. To gorilla's I'm sure smashing your baby into a rock is very similiar to what they do to female babies in china.

Uh....dOi.

That's what I'm talking about, if there is a Creator, he could've gone with any kind of system, but he went with one where the happiness and pleasure of some is actually dependent on the sorrow and suffering of others.
My humanity has nothing to do with it.
Even if no humans were on Earth, it would still be a nightmare for the Zebra.
I'm talking about the preponderance of suffering being created out of nothing.
Why?
(and this doesn't even touch on the kind of customized, brilliant, Hellish, unspeakable, unthinkable nightmares the human intelligence is capable of whipping up for it's neighbors)

 

[moraldeficiency]

Uh....dOi.

That's what I'm talking about, if there is a Creator, he could've gone with any kind of system, but he went with one where the happiness and pleasure of some is actually dependent on the sorrow and suffering of others.
My humanity has nothing to do with it.
Even if no humans were on Earth, it would still be a nightmare for the Zebra.
I'm talking about the preponderance of suffering being created out of nothing.
Why?
(and this doesn't even touch on the kind of customized, brilliant, Hellish, unspeakable, unthinkable nightmares the human intelligence is capable of whipping up for it's neighbors)

Since I've never created existence I'm not sure I know the parameters for eternal happiness for all beings, but I'd guess that nothing can ever be truely perfect and even the most benevolant act ends up hurting someone in some way.

You're humanity is directly related to your perspective. You found the zebra being eaten awful, the zebra would probably agree and the three lions would be on the other side of the arguement. See you're only looking from the victims side. That zebra might have feed three lions enough to keep their families going or without it might have made them stare to death. Life isn't always pretty, but maybe that's cause we don't see the whole picture.

See you see a preponderance of suffering someone else see's an explosion of beauty. Who's right? Neither. My point was you and I and anyone else reading this is far too stupid and limited to see intentions or understand nature. My point was why are you bothering? If you convince someone of something it won't make their lives make sense or any better, they're just trading idols.

 

[moraldeficiency]

double post

 

[Zoken]

Since I've never created existence I'm not sure I know the parameters for eternal happiness for all beings, but I'd guess that nothing can ever be truely perfect and even the most benevolant act ends up hurting someone in some way.

You're humanity is directly related to your perspective. You found the zebra being eaten awful, the zebra would probably agree and the three lions would be on the other side of the arguement. See you're only looking from the victims side. That zebra might have feed three lions enough to keep their families going or without it might have made them stare to death. Life isn't always pretty, but maybe that's cause we don't see the whole picture.

See you see a preponderance of suffering someone else see's an explosion of beauty. Who's right? Neither. My point was you and I and anyone else reading this is far too stupid and limited to see intentions or understand nature. My point was why are you bothering? If you convince someone of something it won't make their lives make sense or any better, they're just trading idols.

I think his point was that a truly benevolent and loving creator would create a world with no suffering and no pain, where no one's happines depended on the pain of another.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Since I've never created existence I'm not sure I know the parameters for eternal happiness for all beings, but I'd guess that nothing can ever be truely perfect and even the most benevolant act ends up hurting someone in some way.

You're humanity is directly related to your perspective. You found the zebra being eaten awful, the zebra would probably agree and the three lions would be on the other side of the arguement. See you're only looking from the victims side. That zebra might have feed three lions enough to keep their families going or without it might have made them stare to death. Life isn't always pretty, but maybe that's cause we don't see the whole picture.

See you see a preponderance of suffering someone else see's an explosion of beauty. Who's right? Neither. My point was you and I and anyone else reading this is far too stupid and limited to see intentions or understand nature. My point was why are you bothering? If you convince someone of something it won't make their lives make sense or any better, they're just trading idols.

This is what's known as, "Having such an open mind that your brain falls out".

There is no beautiful side to it when a man anally rapes a 3 year old boy and he dies from internal bleeding....sorry, regardless of perspective.
Are you going to sit there and say, "Well, the rapist really got a lot of pleasure out of it, so don't JUST look at the victim's side of things. "


Come. On., dude.
The reason I can think of better systems than the "Lions must eat Zebras alive in order to live" - System is because lions'll eat ME too.
And the lions are probably pretty oblivious to the "explosion of beauty" that comes when a hunter shoots them for their skin, or when they get gangrene in an infected wound and are too crippled to hunt anymore and have to starve to death.

 

[Gilpesh]

Wow Gil... that... that metaphor works so well.

I like to paint hilarious pictures with words and usually it involves the handicapable or Tyson. Luckily this time it could be both.

 

[Anguissette1979]

Wow... you all haven't been very prolific today. Hopefully this thread picks up tonight

 

[ShadowBoxing]

I think his point was that a truly benevolent and loving creator would create a world with no suffering and no pain, where no one's happines depended on the pain of another.

I think if a creator made a world with no pain, suffering, or death I'd have to slap him upside the head for being so stupid and shortsighted.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

So you do think the God of the Bible would have to be "stupid and shortsighted".
Okay, it's hard to tell sometimes.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

hahahaha! Shadowboxing is going to slap a god upside the head.
ahahahahaha! I mean I have an ego and all, but AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

[Anguissette1979]

hahahaha! Shadowboxing is going to slap a god upside the head.
ahahahahaha! I mean I have an ego and all, but AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

It's like slapping the tooth fairy when she only gives you $1.