Discussion in 'Avengers: Age of Ultron' started by Thread Manager, May 5, 2015.
I absolutely loved this movie. It was my favourite movie of 2015.
Civil War really made this movie better to me.
Before CW I'd give this a 7.9
After CW I'd give this a 8.6
Switching up Thor's subplot (I didn't mind it but the execution was bad and that pool was dumb and he explained the stones really poorly. The Collector did it excellently)
Toning down a few jokes and making Ultron a little more powerful he was very easily defeated every time he fought.
But I now love this movie and would rather watch it over the origin film.
I think they did good by not explaining the Infinity Stones again,but yeah the Water of Sights scene is a bit too awkward in the context of the movie, that's probably why it's so short. I always loved the movie but I think this,TWS and CW really make for a great sub-trilogy in the MCU. They just work beautifully for me together thematically.
It feels a bit weird watching this again after Civil War.
I don't know how to put it, but it's about the characters relationship between this and that shortly after.
When I rewatch it, I just see the seeds planted for Civil War. Especially Cap and Tony disagreeing.
Theatrical version, which is truncated? Sure.
BvS Ultimate Edition, however? Easily better than AOU.
Even down to the mutually pointless, duel plot derailing Thor Bath scene and the Knightmare sequence.
The latter while unnecessary or redundant, still informs motivations, and is a much more imaginative as well as entertaining scene.
SS however is dog crap.
While I did think the Ultimate Edition was better than the Theaterical release, I still found it pretty joyless. In the end, if both AOU and BvS were on and it was the last 30-40 minutes left, I'd watch the AOU end battle. I wouldn't be annoyed after the B vs S. fight.
Why does it have to be joy filled? Just because it has the Batman and Superman? The former isn't a joy filled character to begin with.
DCEU is purposely, at least the Synder films, designed as the anti thesis to the MCU. It's dark and gritty reflection. Deconstructing it's heroes.
The DC universe exists more in our own grounded effed up world. Which makes it socio and political commentary more intriguing. As well as the threats more frightening or engaging. Yet it still has the over the top comic book elements.
It just doesn't have quip, meta humor, and tension deflating joke over load. That on the surface make the MCU more likable. But they don't strive for the same heights of greatness.
Marvel films are joyful and easier to consume. Especially on first viewing when the jokes are fresh.
But rewatch ability is poor on most of them, and there is little in the way of substance or nuance. BvS is dark and gritty. Even joyless. But I also think it's better as a film. The true Ultimate Edition though. Possibly ahead of it's time. Long term without the excess forced humor like most Marvel films, it could age better.
I find that BvS has poor rewatch ability. Most of the recent MCU films on cable, TWS, AOU, GOTG, Ant-Man, I could just stop and watch anywhere in the film. It's a chore to watch BvS even in the Ultimate Edition.
And I understand that Batman is dark and gritty character. However, I have no issues watching the TDKT or Mask of the Phantasm, or Burton's Batman or even Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker.
I also disagree that BvS will somehow age better.
And I've said this before, when the current cinematic landscape has 6 movies of the same genre being released every year, it's hard for people to look back on the heavily criticized one from a few years ago especially when it's contemporaries are rated by critic and fan as higher.
Look at the critical response of Batman Returns 25 years later ...
Even back then Batman Returns wasn't lambasted by critics. Not as good? Too dark? Maybe but never bad.
I just don't see how especially post internet, post social media, that somehow people will come around on BvS.
Even so, 25 years later, how many more CBMs are we going to get?
Thor's subplot derailed the plot but also informed him about the infinity Stones and Vision who he woke up layer in the film. It was set up and paid off. Though it could have been written better. If you remove it from the film, then you start questioning where 0 Thor was during the Soul sequence and why he suddenly appears and wakes Vision up.
You could have cut out the Knight mare sequence in BvS and it wouldn't have made a difference. It was unnecessary, confusing and cane outta nowhere especially when Flash appears.
BvS UE doesn't change much about the movie and doesn't remove its fundamental flaws that ruin it.
Honestly the Thor subplot for me is small enough that I don't think it has a significant impact on the film, especially at the point its introduced.
I would tend to agree that the film carries a bit more weight in retrospect knowing whats coming afterwards. The climax and really the whole Ultron character/plot do feel a bit underwritten to me not really selling his nature of indeed his threat as well as I think could have been. It actually ends up being the early/mid stages of the film that carry most of its rewatchability for me.
Writing wise I do tend to think Whedon does go to the metahumour well a bit too often(although I'v less probablem with it here than in Abrams Trek or Starwars) and does I think drop the odd clunky line. The Widow/Banner romance being perhaps an example of the latter at points but obviously has the benefit of the actors to sell it.
Does anyone know where this image appears in the movie? I'm writing a paper and I've rewatched the film but I must have missed it.
I mean, at the end of the day, a bad movie is still a bad movie. All the extra footage did was prolong my boredom (and agony).
As for AOU. We get off to a riproar of a start until the now infamous Hawkeye's farm scene, which I would've been fine with had it been shorter and didn't stall the movie so much. I think a lot of the Banner/Widow stuff also bogged the film down as well. The Thor scene seems out of place, perhaps that could've been a credits scene. At any pace, the scene just kind of happens and doesn't distract from the main narrative it's just....there.
Don't get met wrong, Ultron is a good villain. Spader does him justice, but I agree with an earlier poster that he is a bit underwritten. There should have been more to the Vision/Ultron relationship. Could have made him more menacing and underscored his utter disdain for humankind.
Just my two cents for an otherwise good, albeit flawed second installment to A1. We've since picked up momentum from it with Cap: Civil War and the latest GOTG so we're doing just fine leading into my most anticipated film of the year, RAGNOROK!
Spader certainly gives Ultron personality but I never felt the film really nailed down the drama around him falling back too easily into the "Skynet with attitude" plot. I think it could have done for example with playing up more the idea that he's inherited a lot of Starks personality becoming more of a twisted mirror of him.
I actually felt that the twins plot was a lot more successful, there motivation is clearer and Scarlet Witches mind manipulation presented a much more interesting thread. The Thor section was a bit pointless but the Stark and Widow ones were both very effective and I wouldnt have minded see more focus on them.
I don't really have a problem with the farm scenes personally, I think the film needs to slow down at that point and its generally the kind of thing that Whedon does best.
The whole climax to me seems a bit rushed, Ultron kidnapping BW especially seems like a big missed opportunity. it ends up as simply being a way of locating him when it could obviously have been an opportunity to show his motivation more clearly and indeed to follow up more on her earlier flashbacks. When the action does kick off I don't think its ever really desperate enough, not to the degree its easy to buy the idea that self sacrifice maybe needed to beat Ultron
The third act and final showdown with Ultron was sloppy and lacked focus, not to mentioned various half-baked sequences suffering from the editing. Got tired of watching Ultron get punted around like a football.
One of my favourite movies. Hulk always dominates and crushes !!
First time I saw this movie I was pretty disappointed. I thought it was just a pointless rehash that brought nothing new to the table and spent too much time setting up future films.
Well I recently re-watched it and then saw Infinity War for the first time and I have to say it only reinforces my initial opinion.
yea rewatched it a couple times recently you can tell Whedons heart just wasn't in it this time. It shows. The movie just looks depressed. Visually. Lots of dark and grey colouring.