BABYLON 5 REMASTERED: A Retrospective and Rewatch Thread!

[DarthSkywalker]

With respect to the ending of Parliament of Dreams, yeah, that is a great moment. It's interesting how great JMS is at writing religion considering he is an atheist himself.

If you think things are getting good and settling in now, well the next three episodes are on another level. Speaking of which, if you are looking for Qanon/Trump supporters, just wait for the next episode.

As I told @flickchick85 or @InCali, because I grew up with B5 and TOS was moreso on rereuns, I actually think of Koenig as Bester first and Chekhov second.

Of course, the loss of Bester's partner upsets you... You have such a type!

Yeah, the Mass Effect parallels will continue adding up like bricks in a wall until well... We will see what conclusions you draw.

Which ones specifically are you noticing now?

Rude! Accurate, but rude.

What you just mentioned with Koenig reminds me of @Snow Queen knowing Amy Acker as Root first, and Winifred second.

I don't know if it is very specific Mass Effect things, as much as how obviously Mass Effect used Babylon 5 for the entire template. It reminds me so much of running around the Citadel during the first game, it's kind of off putting. Even when they going to the club or having a celebration. It's just so much the games. Though on the specific front:

Spoiler

- The "biotic situation" reminded me of Project Overlord and and Jack's storyline in general. The Nickson situation reminded me of the opening of Mass Effect 2, or pretty much anytime someone randomly runs into a Reaper, or in Andromeda, the Scourge.

Oh s*** he does.

I can't un-see it and I hate him for it.

 

[flickchick85]

I've never played Mass Effect, so I missed this whole ripoff situation, lol.

 

[Snow Queen]

I love how every time I open this thread, @flickchick85 and @InCali are talking about two seasons from now or, you know, now the finale, and all the lore with it in spoiler tags. Feel like every time I watch one, it's like "Meanwhile in episode 4... of season 1... I met psychic cops for the first time."

 

[flickchick85]

I love how every time I open this thread, @flickchick85 and @InCali are talking about two seasons from now or, you know, now the finale, and all the lore with it in spoiler tags. Feel like every time I watch one, it's like "Meanwhile in episode 4... of season 1... I met psychic cops for the first time."

We were actually talking about 4.5 seasons from now, but that's fair.

Don't worry though, we're done with the series now, so we'll mostly be here to comment on y'all's comments and how much you don't know.

 

[InCali]

I love how every time I open this thread, @flickchick85 and @InCali are talking about two seasons from now or, you know, now the finale, and all the lore with it in spoiler tags. Feel like every time I watch one, it's like "Meanwhile in episode 4... of season 1... I met psychic cops for the first time."

Yes, but, remember, you’re referencing the Queen Empress and wannabe Prince Consort of the Order of Imperial Couch Potatoes.

 

[Snow Queen]

Yes, but, remember, you’re referencing the Queen Empress and wannabe Prince Consort of the Order of Imperial Couch Potatoes.

I don't think I've left my bed since Covid came to North America so I'm not one to talk there.

 

[InCali]

I don't think I've left my bed since Covid came to North America so I'm not one to talk there.

I anoint thee Snow “Princess” of said imperial order.

 

[DKDetective]

Rude! Accurate, but rude.

What you just mentioned with Koenig reminds me of @Snow Queen knowing Amy Acker as Root first, and Winifred second.

I don't know if it is very specific Mass Effect things, as much as how obviously Mass Effect used Babylon 5 for the entire template. It reminds me so much of running around the Citadel during the first game, it's kind of off putting. Even when they going to the club or having a celebration. It's just so much the games. Though on the specific front:

Spoiler

- The "biotic situation" reminded me of Project Overlord and and Jack's storyline in general. The Nickson situation reminded me of the opening of Mass Effect 2, or pretty much anytime someone randomly runs into a Reaper, or in Andromeda, the Scourge.

I can't un-see it and I hate him for it.

Yeah, it is crazy how much truer that gets once the main plot gets going and you "leave the Citadel". I hope it doesn't put you off B5 since it was the originator, which does it better and actually sticks the landing.

For instance, on that last point I bolded, just wait until episode 13.



The ripoff can be pretty infuriating, especially when you find out that BioWare never acknowledged the influence. They always talk about other sci-fi influences but are silent about the series and universe they basically copied wholescale

 

[DKDetective]

So now that I've had a few days to process, some general thoughts....

Spoiler

Well it took 4.5 seasons but they finally, FINALLY made Lyta interesting to me in the last stretch. Huzzah! I think @DKDetective is right that the Byron stuff would've been more interesting with Ivanova, but oh well. Better late than never, Lyta!

I was wondering when exactly the future of "War Without End" was set, but DK's explanation sorted it out quite nicely. That was really well-done, imo. And I totally spaced on Londo's "3 chances at redemption" so that was very cool as well. I never became sympathetic toward the character, but I do think his arc was well-handled, and I'm actually glad he didn't get a "happy ending," as it tells me JMS didn't expect me the viewer to forgive everything he did. Showrunners seeming so in-tune with their audience is a very rare quality. Vince Gilligan's the only other one that comes to mind at the moment.

I'm a little sad that we didn't get to meet David, but I guess it wasn't really necessary.

S5 took a little while to get going but once it did, it delivered. I wasn't really feeling DK's love for Sheridan until S5. Before that, he was basically a Hal Jordan without the alcoholism to me - which meant I enjoyed him, as I do Hal - but the way Boxleitner played him seemed a little too into his own myth/greatness to me at times. His OTT speechifying didn't help, lol. BUT he made for a wonderful, thoughtful president of the Alliance, and that helped me finally get the love for him. I wouldn't go so far as to say he's my favorite starship captain in fiction or anything, but a great character, nonetheless.

I'm amazed at how well the finale still worked despite being moved a season later than planned. I know this is the only reason we got to see Ivanova again, but NO finale would've worked for me without her, so I'm very glad for that.

I had no idea what JMS looked like, so no I didn't recognize him as the guy turning off the lights. Neat. That video was also neat.

And now for FC's official rankings of the B5 seasons:

1.) Season 4
2.) Season 3
3.) Season 2
4.) Season 5
5.) Season 1

I agree with your rankings except seasons 1 and 5 are tied in last for me...

Spoiler

The strengths and weaknesses of seasons 1 and 5 are so different that I have a hard time comparing them directly. Season 1 is slow and rough around the edges, but the foreshadowing, especially on rewatch is so wonderful and brilliant, it improves on subsequent viewings because you realize what a wonderfully elaborate web is being set up.

Whereas season 5 is really rough in the first half, but the latter half is classic B5 like we are accustomed to leading up to my favourite series finale of all time. I don't mind Lochley, but she is no Ivanova, and I don't like that JMS made her Sheridan's first wife. It was not needed and kinda cheesy. Also the aesthetic of most of season 5 I find to be lesser than seasons 2 through 4. I don't know if they got more money being on a real network, but I preferred the moodier lighting of earlier seasons.

Also, I don't love how Sheridan and other members of the main cast all of a sudden starts dying their hair. I liked how they are started going grey or in Garibaldi's case, lost their hair.

With respect to Sheridan, I'm not sure familiar with Hal Jordan in the comics, how is he so similar to Sheridan?

I think what I enjoy so much about Sheridan as a character, even as a captain, is he is not as morally black and white as other similiar characters of the era like Picard.

He is a more realistic military man, who does dubious or pretty ruthless things in what he believes is the service of good. (Eg. The fake distress signal and nuke trick against the Black Star in the Earth-Minbari War, embracing his hero worship and using it in the Shadow War, sending Erickson to his death intentionally, and using the telepaths as weapons at the end of the Earth Civil War.)

I also find the ego interesting. I like how the show examines how "great men or women" have ego and seem to think they are "the chosen of God". I like how JMS used that for the Garibaldi conflict in season 4. And as a 90s SciFi kid, I do enjoy some hero speechifying (Mass Effect turns this into a gameplay mechanic).

I am a bit more sympathetic to Londo, probably partly because I first saw the show in the "simpler" time of the 90s (just like how we are also accepting of Vader's redemption). But I agree that they does a great job of not giving Londo a happy ending or true redemption.

Interesting thing about the War Without End future timing is that it perfectly lines up with Londo's description for his vision of his death in the first episode. He says it is "20 years from now" (which is 3 years before Sheridan's death, which is itself 20 years after Z'Ha'Dum).

If you ever want more B5 universe content, TNT commissioned a few TV movies. They can be found on XBox Video, iTunes, or Google/YouTube.

In order of quality and story importance:
1. In the Beginning - tells the story of the Earth-Minbari War. Told by Londo in War Without End future era.
2. A Call to Arms - backdoor pilot to B5's successor series. Successor series, Crusade, was going to be JMS's revisionist take on the classic Star Trek formula starring Gary Cole, but TNT, when they realized the B5 audience was not watching anything else on TNT, did everything possible to sabotage it to get out of production.
3. Thirdspace - Lovecraftian standalone story set between end of Shadow War and Earth Civil War. B5 finds an ancient Vorlon artefact Hyperspace...
4. River of Souls - Standalone set after Sheridan's departure from station in 2262 involving Soul Hunters. Stars Ian McShane and Martin Sheen.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yeah, it is crazy how much truer that gets once the main plot gets going and you "leave the Citadel". I hope it doesn't put you off B5 since it was the originator, which does it better and actually sticks the landing.

For instance, on that last point I bolded, just wait until episode 13.



The ripoff can be pretty infuriating, especially when you find out that BioWare never acknowledged the influence. They always talk about other sci-fi influences but are silent about the series and universe they basically copied wholescale

Definitely won't put me off the show. Just kind of feels weird giving Bioware all this credit for so many years. Not nearly as deserved as I thought, though I obviously love the games. And yeah, it makes sense they didn't mention it. Once you watch it, you realize they weren't as... creative as one might suggest.

 

[DKDetective]

Definitely won't put me off the show. Just kind of feels weird giving Bioware all this credit for so many years. Not nearly as deserved as I thought, though I obviously love the games. And yeah, it makes sense they didn't mention it. Once you watch it, you realize they weren't as... creative as one might suggest.

Yep, they don't even try to hide it with the names Cmdr John Shepard = Cmdr Jeffrey Sinclair / Captain John Sheridan, Systems Alliance = Earth Alliance, Asari = Minbari, Krogan = Narn, etc. (Although the whole Quarian/Geth thing is not B5 related, but a BSG ripoff homage.)

Yeah, I didn't mind the heavy B5 influence on Mass Effect when the games came out since it was a really dark time for B5 fans. The attempts at a B5 movie had just fallen through and the word from JMS was that due to opposition from certain execs at Warner Bros, no future B5 projects or content would ever be forthcoming. Mass Effect was the next best thing (until they ****ed up the ending).

Nowadays with B5 fading out of public consciousness, I kinda wish JMS had pulled a Harlan Ellison and sued BioWare/EA for copyright infringement and at least get a "Special Acknowledgement to the Works of J. Michael Straczynski" credit.

Speaking of JMS awesomeness:

 

[InCali]

I agree with your rankings except seasons 1 and 5 are tied in last for me...

Spoiler

The strengths and weaknesses of seasons 1 and 5 are so different that I have a hard time comparing them directly. Season 1 is slow and rough around the edges, but the foreshadowing, especially on rewatch is so wonderful and brilliant, it improves on subsequent viewings because you realize what a wonderfully elaborate web is being set up.

Whereas season 5 is really rough in the first half, but the latter half is classic B5 like we are accustomed to leading up to my favourite series finale of all time. I don't mind Lochley, but she is no Ivanova, and I don't like that JMS made her Sheridan's first wife. It was not needed and kinda cheesy. Also the aesthetic of most of season 5 I find to be lesser than seasons 2 through 4. I don't know if they got more money being on a real network, but I preferred the moodier lighting of earlier seasons.

Also, I don't love how Sheridan and other members of the main cast all of a sudden starts dying their hair. I liked how they are started going grey or in Garibaldi's case, lost their hair.

With respect to Sheridan, I'm not sure familiar with Hal Jordan in the comics, how is he so similar to Sheridan?

I think what I enjoy so much about Sheridan as a character, even as a captain, is he is not as morally black and white as other similiar characters of the era like Picard.

He is a more realistic military man, who does dubious or pretty ruthless things in what he believes is the service of good. (Eg. The fake distress signal and nuke trick against the Black Star in the Earth-Minbari War, embracing his hero worship and using it in the Shadow War, sending Erickson to his death intentionally, and using the telepaths as weapons at the end of the Earth Civil War.)

I also find the ego interesting. I like how the show examines how "great men or women" have ego and seem to think they are "the chosen of God". I like how JMS used that for the Garibaldi conflict in season 4. And as a 90s SciFi kid, I do enjoy some hero speechifying (Mass Effect turns this into a gameplay mechanic).

I am a bit more sympathetic to Londo, probably partly because I first saw the show in the "simpler" time of the 90s (just like how we are also accepting of Vader's redemption). But I agree that they does a great job of not giving Londo a happy ending or true redemption.

Interesting thing about the War Without End future timing is that it perfectly lines up with Londo's description for his vision of his death in the first episode. He says it is "20 years from now" (which is 3 years before Sheridan's death, which is itself 20 years after Z'Ha'Dum).

If you ever want more B5 universe content, TNT commissioned a few TV movies. They can be found on XBox Video, iTunes, or Google/YouTube.

In order of quality and story importance:
1. In the Beginning - tells the story of the Earth-Minbari War. Told by Londo in War Without End future era.
2. A Call to Arms - backdoor pilot to B5's successor series. Successor series, Crusade, was going to be JMS's revisionist take on the classic Star Trek formula starring Gary Cole, but TNT, when they realized the B5 audience was not watching anything else on TNT, did everything possible to sabotage it to get out of production.
3. Thirdspace - Lovecraftian standalone story set between end of Shadow War and Earth Civil War. B5 finds an ancient Vorlon artefact Hyperspace...
4. River of Souls - Standalone set after Sheridan's departure from station in 2262 involving Soul Hunters. Stars Ian McShane and Martin Sheen.

There were a couple of moments in S5 that brought it above S1....I liked both however. Same order for me....I would not deign to disagree with the Queen Empress. As she speaks, the truth reveals itself.

 

[InCali]

So now that I've had a few days to process, some general thoughts....

Spoiler

Well it took 4.5 seasons but they finally, FINALLY made Lyta interesting to me in the last stretch. Huzzah! I think @DKDetective is right that the Byron stuff would've been more interesting with Ivanova, but oh well. Better late than never, Lyta!

I was wondering when exactly the future of "War Without End" was set, but DK's explanation sorted it out quite nicely. That was really well-done, imo. And I totally spaced on Londo's "3 chances at redemption" so that was very cool as well. I never became sympathetic toward the character, but I do think his arc was well-handled, and I'm actually glad he didn't get a "happy ending," as it tells me JMS didn't expect me the viewer to forgive everything he did. Showrunners seeming so in-tune with their audience is a very rare quality. Vince Gilligan's the only other one that comes to mind at the moment.

I'm a little sad that we didn't get to meet David, but I guess it wasn't really necessary.

S5 took a little while to get going but once it did, it delivered. I wasn't really feeling DK's love for Sheridan until S5. Before that, he was basically a Hal Jordan without the alcoholism to me - which meant I enjoyed him, as I do Hal - but the way Boxleitner played him seemed a little too into his own myth/greatness to me at times. His OTT speechifying didn't help, lol. BUT he made for a wonderful, thoughtful president of the Alliance, and that helped me finally get the love for him. I wouldn't go so far as to say he's my favorite starship captain in fiction or anything, but a great character, nonetheless.

I'm amazed at how well the finale still worked despite being moved a season later than planned. I know this is the only reason we got to see Ivanova again, but NO finale would've worked for me without her, so I'm very glad for that.

I had no idea what JMS looked like, so no I didn't recognize him as the guy turning off the lights. Neat. That video was also neat.

And now for FC's official rankings of the B5 seasons:

1.) Season 4
2.) Season 3
3.) Season 2
4.) Season 5
5.) Season 1

Spoiler

ANYTHING with Ivanova is more interesting than with Lyta. The one thing I hated about s5 was that god, I mean Ivanova, wasn't in it until the very end. She could have easily taken over the position of Captain and the show would have been better off for it. I liked Talia way better than Lyta, but I guess she got a better gig. Did Claudia get a role somewhere else when they didn't think there would be a S5? Because that's the only reason I can see her not being promoted to Captain. Also, they should have had more fill between the last 2 shows. I found that a little confusing because there was virtually no reference (unless I was getting something from the kitchen) to important events.

 

[OutOfBoose]

I actually always liked that ME took so much from B5. It was a spiritual successor of sorts for me. Too bad B5 is largely forgotten these days and ME took the spotlight, while many aren't even aware of it's roots.

I agree that I wish there was some acknowledgement of the JMS' work in ME series beyond influences and homages, though.

The ripoff can be pretty infuriating, especially when you find out that BioWare never acknowledged the influence. They always talk about other sci-fi influences but are silent about the series and universe they basically copied wholescale

It reminds of the Wachowskis, who named a bunch of influences on The Matrix, but not the biggest one - The Invisibles. Well, as far as I know. I remember reading Grant Morrison was frustrated by it.

 

[DKDetective]

Spoiler

ANYTHING with Ivanova is more interesting than with Lyta. The one thing I hated about s5 was that god, I mean Ivanova, wasn't in it until the very end. She could have easily taken over the position of Captain and the show would have been better off for it. I liked Talia way better than Lyta, but I guess she got a better gig. Did Claudia get a role somewhere else when they didn't think there would be a S5? Because that's the only reason I can see her not being promoted to Captain. Also, they should have had more fill between the last 2 shows. I found that a little confusing because there was virtually no reference (unless I was getting something from the kitchen) to important events.

Spoiler

Yeah, there was a contract dispute with Claudia when they all had to re-sign for season 5. Claudia's agent and the network played hardball with each other. JMS, the crew, and the cast were all at the mercy of the network TNT since the show was already technically dead. TNT set a deadline to sign everyone and ramp production back up or else they would pass on reviving the show. According to all accounts, Claudia's dispute was about a term in her contract about being able to take off so much time to do movies. There is dispute about why no deal was made and she left. She claims that she was willing to negotiate and the network screwed her over by ending the negotiations without warning.

JMS and members of the cast all say that they went to her during the negotiations (they were all at a convention when the negotiations were going on) and told her that the network would not accept the demands and to please come talk to them and to give in so they could also finish the show together. JMS asked her to just sign the contract and he would honour her request for time off for movies unofficially like he had always done (other cast members back this up). However, allegedly, she wouldn't answer their calls or come to the door.

Yeah, Captain Ivanova would have been awesome. They could have mined it for a lot of great drama, the tension between Sheridan who as president is supposed to be stepping back from the running of the station and perhaps interfering with Susan being in command, etc.

Personally, I disagree strongly about filling in more gaps between the end of the series proper and Sleeping in Light. It is his version of The Grey Havens. The mission statement of Babylon 5 was was always to tell a 5-year arc that would unfold in 5 years of story and real world time. The natural end of the series is the defeat of the Shadows, freeing of Earth, and the establishment of the Interstellar Alliance with the series ending as those involved leave the station for new adventures separately. Sleeping in Light is an epilogue and a little glimpse at the characters as they come back together again for the death of their leader to reminisce. The intervening 20 years are largely other stories separate from the one the show tells.

In fact, JMS intended to tell those stories separately with other works such as the sequel series Crusade, which picks up 5 years later. Personally, I think JMS filled in enough of the gaps or gave us enough hints of what happened, was going to happen, that I don't think we need any detailed plot for the intervening period.

I actually always liked that ME took so much from B5. It was a spiritual successor of sorts for me. Too bad B5 is largely forgotten these days and ME took the spotlight, while many aren't even aware of it's roots.

I agree that I wish there was some acknowledgement of the JMS' work in ME series beyond influences and homages, though.It reminds of the Wachowskis, who named a bunch of influences on The Matrix, but not the biggest one - The Invisibles. Well, as far as I know. I remember reading Grant Morrison was frustrated by it.

Yeah, me too, I love B5 and always want more B5 related content so I was so excited when Mass Effect revived the spirit and a lot of elements of JMS's creation in playable form. And it came when it seemed future B5 projects were permanently dead. I think I became less forgiving when EA and BioWare drove the IP into the ground with 3's ending and then Andromeda.

On a positive note, it seems the HBO Max release is really bringing the series to a wider audience and JMS is adorably overwhelmed by the response:
So maybe we are seeing a resurgence in the franchise.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Yeah, me too, I love B5 and always want more B5 related content so I was so excited when Mass Effect revived the spirit and a lot of elements of JMS's creation in playable form. And it came when it seemed future B5 projects were permanently dead. I think I became less forgiving when EA and BioWare drove the IP into the ground with 3's ending and then Andromeda.

Exactly. Very much like a playable B5. Yet I think the rot within Mass Effect started earlier than the ending of the third game. I didn't even touch Andromeda, because it just looked soooooo uninspired.

By the way, regarding Quarians... They seem to be inspired by Gaim. A minor methane-breathing race with a distinct scaphandre.

On a positive note, it seems the HBO Max release is really bringing the series to a wider audience and JMS is adorably overwhelmed by the response:
So maybe we are seeing a resurgence in the franchise.

I'll spend some time reading his B5-related reactions.

 

[flickchick85]

I agree with your rankings except seasons 1 and 5 are tied in last for me...

Spoiler

The strengths and weaknesses of seasons 1 and 5 are so different that I have a hard time comparing them directly. Season 1 is slow and rough around the edges, but the foreshadowing, especially on rewatch is so wonderful and brilliant, it improves on subsequent viewings because you realize what a wonderfully elaborate web is being set up.

Whereas season 5 is really rough in the first half, but the latter half is classic B5 like we are accustomed to leading up to my favourite series finale of all time. I don't mind Lochley, but she is no Ivanova, and I don't like that JMS made her Sheridan's first wife. It was not needed and kinda cheesy. Also the aesthetic of most of season 5 I find to be lesser than seasons 2 through 4. I don't know if they got more money being on a real network, but I preferred the moodier lighting of earlier seasons.

Also, I don't love how Sheridan and other members of the main cast all of a sudden starts dying their hair. I liked how they are started going grey or in Garibaldi's case, lost their hair.

With respect to Sheridan, I'm not sure familiar with Hal Jordan in the comics, how is he so similar to Sheridan?

I think what I enjoy so much about Sheridan as a character, even as a captain, is he is not as morally black and white as other similiar characters of the era like Picard.

He is a more realistic military man, who does dubious or pretty ruthless things in what he believes is the service of good. (Eg. The fake distress signal and nuke trick against the Black Star in the Earth-Minbari War, embracing his hero worship and using it in the Shadow War, sending Erickson to his death intentionally, and using the telepaths as weapons at the end of the Earth Civil War.)

I also find the ego interesting. I like how the show examines how "great men or women" have ego and seem to think they are "the chosen of God". I like how JMS used that for the Garibaldi conflict in season 4. And as a 90s SciFi kid, I do enjoy some hero speechifying (Mass Effect turns this into a gameplay mechanic).

I am a bit more sympathetic to Londo, probably partly because I first saw the show in the "simpler" time of the 90s (just like how we are also accepting of Vader's redemption). But I agree that they does a great job of not giving Londo a happy ending or true redemption.

Interesting thing about the War Without End future timing is that it perfectly lines up with Londo's description for his vision of his death in the first episode. He says it is "20 years from now" (which is 3 years before Sheridan's death, which is itself 20 years after Z'Ha'Dum).

If you ever want more B5 universe content, TNT commissioned a few TV movies. They can be found on XBox Video, iTunes, or Google/YouTube.

In order of quality and story importance:
1. In the Beginning - tells the story of the Earth-Minbari War. Told by Londo in War Without End future era.
2. A Call to Arms - backdoor pilot to B5's successor series. Successor series, Crusade, was going to be JMS's revisionist take on the classic Star Trek formula starring Gary Cole, but TNT, when they realized the B5 audience was not watching anything else on TNT, did everything possible to sabotage it to get out of production.
3. Thirdspace - Lovecraftian standalone story set between end of Shadow War and Earth Civil War. B5 finds an ancient Vorlon artefact Hyperspace...
4. River of Souls - Standalone set after Sheridan's departure from station in 2262 involving Soul Hunters. Stars Ian McShane and Martin Sheen.

Spoiler

Yeah the Sheridan's ex-wife thing was so random! What was that about?! The hair thing I kept noticing with Sheridan. His hair was...a journey.

So Hal Jordan is like Sheridan to me in that they both seem, at first glance, to be your stock old school, macho adventure hero type. The guy who says things like "like hell!" and is fearless and confident to a fault and isn't afraid to bend or break the rules a little bit to get the job done. But then when you spend more time with them you find them to be surprisingly human and progressive in their attitudes, and not so much how those old school heroes would be. And they both had that ego thing that would bother me from time to time, seeming to buy into their own legend somewhat. But like I said, Sheridan in S5 was a whole different beast for me. I can't imagine Hal would've been that good a president. He'd probably never accept the job in the first place, lol.

I had forgotten about Londo's vision of his death. And I can see how my estimation of S1 could go up upon a rewatch with everything it lays the groundwork for. An eventual re-watch should be quite rewarding.

And yeah, I definitely want to see the movies. I looked for them as soon as I finished and unfortunately they aren't on HBO Max atm. I'll wait a bit and see if they get added before seeking them out to buy them.

 

[InCali]

Spoiler

Yeah the Sheridan's ex-wife thing was so random! What was that about?! The hair thing I kept noticing with Sheridan. His hair was...a journey.

So Hal Jordan is like Sheridan to me in that they both seem, at first glance, to be your stock old school, macho adventure hero type. The guy who says things like "like hell!" and is fearless and confident to a fault and isn't afraid to bend or break the rules a little bit to get the job done. But then when you spend more time with them you find them to be surprisingly human and progressive in their attitudes, and not so much how those old school heroes would be. And they both had that ego thing that would bother me from time to time, seeming to buy into their own legend somewhat. But like I said, Sheridan in S5 was a whole different beast for me. I can't imagine Hal would've been that good a president. He'd probably never accept the job in the first place, lol.

I had forgotten about Londo's vision of his death. And I can see how my estimation of S1 could go up upon a rewatch with everything it lays the groundwork for. An eventual re-watch should be quite rewarding.

And yeah, I definitely want to see the movies. I looked for them as soon as I finished and unfortunately they aren't on HBO Max atm. I'll wait a bit and see if they get added before seeking them out to buy them.

Spoiler

Yeah, my first take on his wife showing up was "huh?", but how does he go to Z'Ha'Dum if she doesn't show up? Personally, I would have preferred he doesn't go and they fight the Shadows for longer and send them running with their tails between their legs LOL (all of them). I would like to see the future changed. The one thing I didn't buy was the conflict between Sheridan and Delenn over the wife. Then, voila, no problem. Both parts of that seemed forced to me. /SPOILER]

 

[DKDetective]

Spoiler

Yeah, my first take on his wife showing up was "huh?", but how does he go to Z'Ha'Dum if she doesn't show up? Personally, I would have preferred he doesn't go and they fight the Shadows for longer and send them running with their tails between their legs LOL (all of them). I would like to see the future changed. The one thing I didn't buy was the conflict between Sheridan and Delenn over the wife. Then, voila, no problem. Both parts of that seemed forced to me. /SPOILER]

Flick was talking about...

Spoiler

Sheridan's other ex-wife.

 

[flickchick85]

Yeah what DK said, lol.

 

[InCali]

Flick was talking about...

Spoiler

Sheridan's other ex-wife.

Spoiler

You mean the fact they got his real wife to play his play wife? Feeling pretty dense right now. Lol

 

[flickchick85]

Spoiler

You mean the fact they got his real wife to play his play wife? Feeling pretty dense right now. Lol

Spoiler

We're talking about Lochley.

 

[InCali]

Spoiler

We're talking about Lochley.

Oh. That. Yeah. Weird. Forgot.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Seeing telepath escort of Turhan made me think of Lady Jessica in the new Dune adaptation.

 

[OutOfBoose]

I wasn't a big fan of the Arthur episode back in the day, but after watching it many years later, it's easily one of my favorites now. The surreal feel of it and how it plays on fantasy element of the setting while delivering deeply human drama about trauma and guilt (with fantastic performance by Michael York). It's one of those isolated gems in the series, when it's not really aligned with the grand narrative, but still sticks with you long after it ends. Other examples - brother Edward, devout belivers and their dying kid etc.