Babylon 5

[Addendum]

OK Cool

Now I felt that Crusade was a big fat fail.

The same could have been said for Babylon 5 if it was canceled 14 episodes into the first season.

 

[LexCorp]

The same could have been said for Babylon 5 if it was canceled 14 episodes into the first season.

I guess but it felt even cheaper than B5 which is odd considering B5 was a cheaply made show. Still good but they had "you can see the wires" kind of effects.

Crusade felt like sock puppets.

 

[Superfreak]

I guess but it felt even cheaper than B5 which is odd considering B5 was a cheaply made show. Still good but they had "you can see the wires" kind of effects.

Crusade felt like sock puppets.

agreed. Crusade, like the follow up Babylon 5 movies after 'in the beginning', was just sub par, compared to what came before.

 

[Addendum]

The story made up for the budget restrictions in spades. From a financial standpoint, it was a success since it never once went over the budget.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I thought the few episodes they made of Crusade were easily better than most of B5's first season. I'm sure JMS would've moved away from self-contained stories and fleshed out a larger interconnected story over time, too.

 

[LexCorp]

Indeed - although conflicting the opions above are good ones

 

[Addendum]

I thought the few episodes they made of Crusade were easily better than most of B5's first season. I'm sure JMS would've moved away from self-contained stories and fleshed out a larger interconnected story over time, too.

Here's links to summaries of the 3 Crusade episodes that were not filmed but had completed scripts.

To the Ends of the Earth

Value Judgements

End of the Line

Around 2000, these scripts were available for download at bookface.com, but I think the site has since closed. The scripts were taken down after a while because of some downloading the scripts, printing them up, and selling them.

 

[Superfreak]

I thought the few episodes they made of Crusade were easily better than most of B5's first season.

yeah, but dropping back down to that level of quality, after already overcoming the issues of the early season cheese factor(most sci fi shows suffer from this), is never a wise plan.

 

[Addendum]

After TNT bought Babylon 5 and was airing Season 5, the network noticed that the regular TNT viewer would leave for that hour B5 was on, and come back when it was over. The B5 viewer would just turn in for that 1 hour. There was no significant gain in ratings.

At the time Crusade started, TNT's biggest thing besides NBA games was wrestling. JMS received more notes from the network to make the show more appealing for what they (TNT) felt their audience (the ones who didn't watch sci-fi) would like. This meant more fights, less talking, less aliens (i.e. dumbing it down). When TNT wanted JMS to have a character that would learn about aliens: their history, culture, language and other things, through sexual contact, JMS refused.

 

[LexCorp]

Frecnh much? Londo was so meant to be Napolean lol

 

[Superfreak]

After TNT bought Babylon 5 and was airing Season 5, the network noticed that the regular TNT viewer would leave for that hour B5 was on, and come back when it was over. The B5 viewer would just turn in for that 1 hour. There was no significant gain in ratings.

At the time Crusade started, TNT's biggest thing besides NBA games was wrestling. JMS received more notes from the network to make the show more appealing for what they (TNT) felt their audience (the ones who didn't watch sci-fi) would like. This meant more fights, less talking, less aliens (i.e. dumbing it down). When TNT wanted JMS to have a character that would learn about aliens: their history, culture, language and other things, through sexual contact, JMS refused.

he did the right thing, but maybe he shouldn't have even started the series in the first place. I mean the idea that 'it could have gotten better' is poor fall back postion.

 

[Addendum]

JMS did say back when B5 was going on was that there was a possibility of doing a spinoff series. When TNT picked up B5, the prospect of a spinoff improved. It's just things soured with TNT, and the series was cancelled before they had their "holy ****" episode (like Signs and Portents from Season 1 of B5).

One of the B5 novel trilogies, the Technomage trilogy, revealed the origins of the Technomages. That would have originally been done in Crusade.

The three unfilmed scripts, which I posted links to summaries about, give hints as to where the series would go had it continued.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

yeah, but dropping back down to that level of quality, after already overcoming the issues of the early season cheese factor(most sci fi shows suffer from this), is never a wise plan.

Given that B5 season 5 aired just before Crusade, I don't think it was that huge a drop in quality.

 

[Superfreak]

Given that B5 season 5 aired just before Crusade, I don't think it was that huge a drop in quality.

I'm not really trying to argue against it. Had it gone the distance, it MAY have been good. But I was totally uninterested in what was happening, or any of the cast. It was just off the mark for me, as was the introductory movie. It felt like it had the same characters and background, but it wasn't the same universe kind of feeling. Like the star trek alternate universe where kirk and spock are evil dictators. Same characters, but everything just felt different.



just on a note, I just watched the episode where B5 fights off the first attempt by earth to take over in season 3. I love it when the fat captain yells 'HIROSHI, HIROSHI' into the com, while sitting in the really weird command chair that didn't fit him. Classic

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Outside of the wonky uniforms, I thought Crusade worked pretty well in the B5 universe. It's definitely different, but that's to be expected.

 

[LexCorp]

Hey was there some TV movies along with the B5 series. I seem to remeber one or two...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

There were many:

In the Beginning (Covers the Earth/Minbari War in greater detail than the series.)
Thirdspace (B5 crew discovers an artifact and everything goes wrong.)
River of Souls (B5 crew discovers an artifact and everything goes wrong--with Soulhunters this time.)
A Call to Arms (Kind of a prequel to the B5 spinoff series Crusade.)

There's also The Gathering, which is movie-length but was actually the pilot for the B5 series itself, and Legend of the Rangers, which is movie-length but is really just the pilot for a proposed Rangers spin-off series. Finally, there's The Lost Tales, shorter vignettes that give us a glimpse of the B5 characters within the 20-year span between the second-to-last episode of Babylon 5 and the series finale. There's only been one DVD of The Lost Tales so far, featuring one story with Lochley and one story with Sheridan, but JMS has said that more are planned.

 

[Superfreak]

There were many:

In the Beginning (Covers the Earth/Minbari War in greater detail than the series.)
Thirdspace (B5 crew discovers an artifact and everything goes wrong.)
River of Souls (B5 crew discovers an artifact and everything goes wrong--with Soulhunters this time.)
A Call to Arms (Kind of a prequel to the B5 spinoff series Crusade.)

There's also The Gathering, which is movie-length but was actually the pilot for the B5 series itself, and Legend of the Rangers, which is movie-length but is really just the pilot for a proposed Rangers spin-off series. Finally, there's The Lost Tales, shorter vignettes that give us a glimpse of the B5 characters within the 20-year span between the second-to-last episode of Babylon 5 and the series finale. There's only been one DVD of The Lost Tales so far, featuring one story with Lochley and one story with Sheridan, but JMS has said that more are planned.

the lost tales are pretty good. Especially the sheridan story.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I just watched it today. I loved Sheridan's story. It felt like a really good sci fi short story along the lines of Arthur C. Clarke's work.

 

[Addendum]

Back when the Lost Tales DVD was announced, JMS said that there was going to be a third story which would involve Garibaldi. However, that was bumped off the first volume due to more time needed for the FX. They had a deadline to meet for the release.

I think Garibaldi's story should be on the second volume. Also, Peter Jurasik has said that if JMS wrote a story about Londo, he would do it.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Garibaldi and Londo would be an odd pair, but I'd love to see stories about them. It's a shame that Richard Biggs and Andreas Katsulas died. I would've loved to see Lost Tales about all the major characters, eventually. But that's not possible anymore.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Katsulas was a badass. In this and everything else he did.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, G'Kar was one of my favorites. Franklin annoyed me at first, but he grew on me over time. I really loved his friendship with Marcus.

Oh, and I keep forgetting to mention how awesome the Lost Tales intro was. Easily the best B5 intro ever, due in no small part to the inclusion of that great speech by G'Kar.

 

[Addendum]

Garibaldi and Londo would be an odd pair, but I'd love to see stories about them. It's a shame that Richard Biggs and Andreas Katsulas died. I would've loved to see Lost Tales about all the major characters, eventually. But that's not possible anymore.

I don't know if they'll both be on the same volume though.

And I agree with you about Richard Biggs and Andreas Katsulas.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Ideally, I'd love to see an Ivanova Lost Tale. Has Claudia Christian appeared at any conventions or done anything else to show that she and the B5 people have kissed and made up since her departure?