Action-Adventure Bad Boys 4

[MadVillainy]

COPS and LIVE PD already got cancelled.

Washington Post and USA Today.

Harry Callahan wasn't "corrupt" like the officers in Magnum Force.

That's 2 shows. And one of them was, at least party, cancelled because they didn't air footage of a police officer murdering someone...

And ok that's 2 publications. 2. Out of how many? That's such a minority that it doesn't matter. "Major publications" have also said there are too many superhero movies and we should stop making them. Most of what's published are opinions by the author. Publications aren't a single monolith that entails the opinion of everyone who works there

Harry Callahan wasn't "corrupt" like the officers in Magnum Force...Ok...Sure he may not be a vigilante. But he was still a cop who used his power to abuse, torture, etc.. A corrupt cop is a corrupt cop.

 

[DarkKnight88]

b) Most bigger budget action movies and/or blockbusters don't feature corrupt cops or soldiers, And if they do they're not the main villains and/or they're part of a secret society or something like that

Mostly yes. Except the biggest film of all time Avatar had the soldiers/military as villains. The Na’vi and scientists were the heroes.

 

[MadVillainy]

Mostly yes. Except the biggest film of all time Avatar had the soldiers/military as villains. The Na’vi and scientists were the heroes.

Ok...that's 1 movie. Most still don't do it. We weren't debating how successful these movies are. That's a completely separate point from what we were talking about.
As you quoted, I said in so many words "most action blockbusters do not feature corrupt cops and soldiers as the main villains." Not "movies that feature corrupt cops and soldiers aren't successful" 1 doesn't have to do with the other.

Anyway my point was: why single out Bay for something when most action directors do the same thing?

 

[TheVileOne]

That's 2 shows. And one of them was, at least party, cancelled because they didn't air footage of a police officer murdering someone...

And ok that's 2 publications. 2. Out of how many? That's such a minority that it doesn't matter. "Major publications" have also said there are too many superhero movies and we should stop making them. Most of what's published are opinions by the author. Publications aren't a single monolith that entails the opinion of everyone who works there

Harry Callahan wasn't "corrupt" like the officers in Magnum Force. Sure he may not be a vigalante. But he was still a cop who used his power to abuse, torture, and play executioner for people without due process. A corrupt cop is a corrupt cop.

Well arguably yes, but same with Marcus and Mike. That's why I think if they face corrupt or racist officers, it's going to be sort of superficial nonsense.

Regarding the publications, what happened with George Floyd is like a tipping point. Studios and big corporations are getting behind the movement now. So it's not just publications that are expressing this.

 

[MadVillainy]

Well arguably yes, but same with Marcus and Mike. That's why I think if they face corrupt or racist officers, it's going to be sort of superficial nonsense.

Regarding the publications, what happened with George Floyd is like a tipping point. Studios and big corporations are getting behind the movement now. So it's not just publications that are expressing this.

Bad Boys is already superficial nonsense. It always has been...per usual your just being negative to be negative. And by your defense of Dirty Harry in Magnum Force...if Mike and Marcus go against corrupt cops that are worst then them, then it's fine.

Look I'm not saying for sure BB4 won't get cancelled. I can't tell the future, but unless Will Smith refuses to do it, I'm sure the 4th movie will happen

 

[DarkKnight88]

Ok...that's 1 movie. Most still don't do it. We weren't debating how successful these movies are. That's a completely separate point from what we were talking about.
As you quoted, I said in so many words "most action blockbusters do not feature corrupt cops and soldiers as the main villains." Not "movies that feature corrupt cops and soldiers aren't successful" 1 doesn't have to do with the other.

Anyway my point was: why single out Bay for something when most action directors do the same thing?

This is not a criticism of Bay. I think I just find it interesting the difference between a Michael Bay and a James Cameron, who are often compared to one another and are arguably the biggest action directors working currently. They clearly have different points of view when you compare say, a Transformers to an Avatar and their treatment of the military.

Anyway, all good. I don’t think Bad Boys 4 will be cancelled at all. I think people can still have fun with cops in movies. I do think they’ll address what’s going on currently in some way, whether that’s either a major or minor plot point, but I don’t think it’ll affect people’s enjoyment of watching a Bad Boys movie.

 

[MadVillainy]

This is not a criticism of Bay. I think I just find it interesting the difference between a Michael Bay and a James Cameron, who are often compared to one another and are arguably the biggest action directors working currently. They clearly have different points of view when you compare say, a Transformers to an Avatar and their treatment of the military.

????
Who compares Cameron and Bay? The Difference Between Michael Bay and James Cameron? — Three Blind Men & an Elephant Blog

That's such a weird comparison. Other than they both do action movies they handle there movies completely different.

The only apt comparison of Bay I think is Peter Berg, who is like Bay but not as obnoxious...save for Batteship.

 

[DarkKnight88]

????
Who compares Cameron and Bay? The Difference Between Michael Bay and James Cameron? — Three Blind Men & an Elephant Blog

That's such a weird comparison. Other than they both do action movies they handle there movies completely different.

Really? I disagree. I think Bay has been heavily influenced by Cameron’s earlier films (Aliens, Terminator 2) along with Tony Scott.

 

[Mysteryman]

I remain one of the few people that I know who liked Battleship.

 

[MadVillainy]

Really? I disagree. I think Bay has been heavily influenced by Cameron’s earlier films (Aliens, Terminator 2) along with Tony Scott.

He can be influenced by Cameron that still doesn't mean they don't handle movies very differently. The humor, the way the action is shot, the way the characters are introduced, the way the characters are handled, the cinematography are all vastly different.

 

[MadVillainy]

I remain one of the few people that I know who liked Battleship.

Oh nooooooo.

I will say this about it. Taylor Kitsch was good in the beginning when he was playing the cocky, burnout archetype. But that's it for me. Everything else was rubbish.

I do like Berg's other films a fair bit though. Friday Night Lights is still one of my favorite sports movies. He's hit a rough patch though. Spenser Confidential was complete trash and Mile 22 looked boring

 

[DarkKnight88]

He can be influenced by Cameron that still doesn't mean they don't handle movies very differently. The humor, the way the action is shot, the way the characters are introduced, the way the characters are handled, the cinematography are all vastly different.

It’s a simple comparison to the types of films they do and the kind of action they shoot. It’s an apt comparison in how different they are in their approach to similar material.

James Cameron (director): I've studied his films and "reverse-engineered" his shooting style. He loves what I call "the big train set," huge physical production, just as I do. It is the most challenging type of filmmaking, and he does it gorgeously.

An Oral History of Transformers Director Michael Bay

 

[MadVillainy]

It’s a simple comparison to the types of films they do and the kind of action they shoot. It’s an apt comparison in how different they are in their approach to similar material.



An Oral History of Transformers Director Michael Bay

They're not the same at all though. Even if they're influenced by each other. You can tell that they are so separate. Or at least they're similarities are so base level that you can compare any 2 action directors then.

I mean if you wanna do it, it's fine. I just don't see why when they're so few similarities and they have a lot of very different goals in filmmaking

 

[DarkKnight88]

I disagree but we'll just have to agree to disagree at this point. Only one thing can solve this...

James Cameron to direct Bad Boys 4!

 

[MadVillainy]

Bringing up JC came out of nowhere because it really didn't have to do with the fact of handling corruption in the Bad Boys franchise. Bay didn't do it. Most action directors don't either. So not sure why single out Bad Boys or Bay for that.

Moving on the Bad Boys 4, I think it'll be fine as long as Smith still wants to do it. And they can handle police or military corruption which I suspect they will

 

[DarkKnight88]

Bringing up JC came out of nowhere because it really didn't have to do with the fact of handling corruption in the Bad Boys franchise. Bay didn't do it. Most action directors don't either. So not sure why single out Bad Boys or Bay for that

I don't know what's to get? It was mentioning how Bay portrays the police/military in his films (Bad Boys, Transformers, 13 Hours) and the difference with how Cameron did in Avatar. Simple. As. That. Similar directors, to me, and their difference in approach with similar subject matter.

Sorry you disagree. But it is an apt comparison IMO.

 

[MadVillainy]

I don't know what's to get? It was mentioning how Bay portrays the police/military in his films (Bad Boys, Transformers, 13 Hours) and the difference with how Cameron did in Avatar. Simple. As. That. Similar directors, to me, and their difference in approach with similar subject matter.

Sorry you disagree. But it is an apt comparison IMO.

???
I don't really care about the Cameron/Bay thing. That was a random point you brought up. Chill.

If you look back at what was initially said:
-You said that Bay doesn't handle corrupt cops/soldiers. I said well he has before in The Rock, sympathetic or not, and that most blockbuster directors don't it either in a major way. So I don't get why specify him.
-And then your brought up "Well Avatar did it and made a lot of money" which a) doesn't dispute my point that most action blockbuster directors don't touch that in a major way because that's only 1 example b) no one brought up the box office potential of movies that do feature corrupt cops or soldiers. So what I don't get why bring it up because that argument doesn't make sense and doesn't even reference what I say.
-Then we had a small back and forth about comparing the two which we disagreed on. But which also had nothing to do with what the point that you or I initially said

This was the post I initially replied to:

I’m actually surprised that hasn’t been in any of the films yet. But a corrupt cop/soldier doesn’t seem to be a Michael Bay thing. Smith sorta tackled a corrupt police force in Bright.

His 2nd movie was THe Rock that featured corrupt members of the armed forces.

Nothing about James Cameron in reference to Michael Bay.
Cameron wasn't referenced until like a day into the conversation and when it was it was a whole separate point. So you getting annoyed and just specifying the JC/Bay stuff in your last post is weird. I understand your JC/Bay comparison point perfectly fine, I just disagree. But that's not what I'm saying I don't get.
As I said, have been saying and this is what I'm saying I don't get is: why specify "Bay doesn't do corrupt cops/soldiers" when most blockbusters don't as well. Yeah I get it, we're talking about Bad Boys. But if there are so many other directors who do the same thing, then why make the point? Why not bring up the fact that the directors of Bad Boys 3 didn't do it eiterh.
That's all.
And I even said that in the post you just quoted. "Bay didn't do it. Most action directors don't either. So not sure why single out Bad Boys or Bay for that". The JC point has nothing to do with what I'm saying. If you look back at the posts that's what was, calmly, being discussed in all of our posts in regards to Bad Boys 4

The point of blockbusters, Bad Boys or not, handling cops or armed forces corruption was what I've been bringing up and discussing since that actually pertains to the thread. Bad Boys 4.
Why get upset about this and get all aggressive with your formatting

If you wanna do the Bay vs JC thing? Fine. Again I think it's silly. But Especially when you bring up "They clearly have different points of view when you compare say, a Transformers to an Avatar and their treatment of the military." when both those movies have very different purposes and storytelling goals. But cool. And I thought we had agreed to disagree. I was trying to move back to the potential handling of police corruption in Bad Boys 4, why it hasn't been done before, etc

 

[MadVillainy]

Apologies for the thread getting derailed. There was some misconstructions

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Watched all 3 recently and glad to report the 3rd movie stands up to a 2nd viewing. The 2nd and especially the 1st movie still hold up really also. The first is an action classic for me. But I really like what they did with the 3rd movie, looking forward to the 4th.

One thing I do hope they address though, what happened to Marcus's sons? The last 2 movies have just focused on his daughter.

 

[Tg11]

I wonder what happens to this franchise after The Slap

 

[GothamCity]

Just make the sequel, slap or no slap.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I do think it's a bit crazy all of Wills movies are being cancelled over this. He apologised and got banned from the Oscars as a punishment.

Let's all move on and get some movies made. Including this one.

 

[GothamCity]

I do think it's a bit crazy all of Wills movies are being cancelled over this. He apologised and got banned from the Oscars as a punishment.

Let's all move on and get some movies made. Including this one.

Yeah. He already got the punishment.

 

[MadVillainy]

I do think it's a bit crazy all of Wills movies are being cancelled over this. He apologised and got banned from the Oscars as a punishment.

Let's all move on and get some movies made. Including this one.

He's not getting cancelled. he's facing the consequences of his actions. Let's stop.

All his projects that fell through post the slap, Bright 2 basically, was already not getting made. The slap isn't what stopped that movie from happening

He's taken a PR hit. That's all. That's not new to the social media era. When Tom Cruise did the Oprah couch jump and all that, his career took a hit but he wasn't cancelled. Then he came back. Smith will do the same.

IF this was someone just starting out or a newer actor like Jonathan Majors or Lakeith Stanfield, I'd agree. But Smith is a household name. He'll bounce back.

If Bad Boys 4 doesn't happen, it'll be due to SONY negligence (similar to how long it took for BB3 to happen). Not due to the slap. Come on now...

 

[Tg11]

But watching the Bad Boys trilogy and seeing Martin Lawrence and Will Smith together, I really do have to wonder if Bad Boys For Life was the last one in the franchise? But considering how Bad Boys 3 ended with Will Smith's character of Mike Lowery finding out that he had an adult son, a son he never knew he had and that son turned out to be a villain but a villain that could be redeemed, I mean how can you follow up on that? I mean given the son is in prison and then Will Smith's baby momma in the film, the main villain, she's dead