Batman and Joker philosophy discussion

[keepbatmanreal]

Batman is the struggler, the dissenter, the punk. The guy nobody likes the one we all hate to love. Hes a crazy clinteastwood with a utility belt and likes to dress up as a flying rat. Batman is not superman. He is needs to be gritty realistic beleivable. He needs to be relatble to our every day lives so his stories dont become some wierd lord of the rings fantasy's, completley irrelevent. I want my heroes to grow up with me. Thats what frank miller did he understands Batman. He is the rock the unyeilding force he shouts NO! I will not bend. He is the runner who's body is breaking down but would rather die than quit. This is batman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VArOPqllcQg
Burton didnt get Batman at all, Miller did

Joker on the other hand having suffered horribley at the hand of random injustice has given up, on everything. He is a zombie,a dead man walking, a philosopher struggling to find meaning through batman who inspires him. He sacrifices his own life to show us the hypocricy of ours. In a weird way hes a hero. Harry Truman killed some 2 million japanese over an idea thats quickly dying;America and hes declared a hero. Joker kills people in ways so that they stop killing each other and focus on killing him and what he represents; a world without sense, but unlike truman he's a viallian? I guess so long as you kill people who arnt domestic you can always spin it and become the hero right, thats the jokers problem he needs to start killing people abroad.

Life isnt so black and white the worst kind of evil is the grays of life and thats where I want my heroes, right in the thick of it.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

I want my heroes to grow up with me.

Ah! So the next generation should have an old Batman?

 

[SixtyThree]

pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease not another joker/batman dichotomy thread... PLEASE ANYTHING BUT THAT

 

[keepbatmanreal]

No ho dosen't have to age literally. I mean you can still keep that crap on cartoon networks for the kids whats it called the bold and the brave? I remember when I was a kid the animated series was good stuff nothing like this new garbage. But as far as comics go its time Batman got deep as ****.

 

[Venom 1988]

You have no idea what you are talking about at all. I could go on about how you think you know what Batman is when really you don't. But I'm on my lunch break, so I'd eat food than argue with some guy on the internet.

And the Brave & Bold is an awesome show, I bet you have never seen one episode of it.

 

[Harls]

I don't really agree with pretty much most of who you think they are, or the pictures you chose to represent them as... but I don't feel like arguing. Everyone's entitled to their opinions. I just don't see this thread going very well...

 

[keepbatmanreal]

Venom how old are you? I saw an episode at a friends place after getting hammered the previous night and I was high as ****... I like everything when i'm high as **** I did not like that.

 

[Venom 1988]

Oh were gonna bring age into this now huh?

I'm 21 going on 22 and I can tell you there are lot more members on this board that are older than me and enjoy the show as well. You have this strange mentality that if Batman isn't gritty and depressing, then it sucks. Explains why you're all high and mighty about Frank Miller

 

[keepbatmanreal]

How is gritty synonymous with depressing? **** depressing who said anything about depressing I'm not talking emo batman thinking about the ramifications of his actions. Im talkin John ****in Wayne in a bat suit crazy as hell.

 

[Venom 1988]

The hell...? I never said gritty is synonymous with depression.


And nobody wants a Batman that is "crazy as hell".

 

[Drz]

Judging a show based upon one episode is pretty childish. I mean would you call Batman TAS a great show if the only episode you watched had Batman fightning giant farm animals?

Also to me it seems you prefer your Batman not being with super powered beings and whatnot, so eh. All i can say is stick to Paul Dini comics and so forth.

 

[SixtyThree]

LOL, batman should dump a load when he runs, and joker is a zombie philospher Harry S. Truman avatar.

I just don't see this thread going very well...

 

[Venom 1988]

I read long halloween and pretty much anything else Batman that's any good I bet I know more about Batman than any of you nerds.

Yea of course you do.
Also, wow a nerd insult? Gee never heard that one before. Hey buddy in case you haven't noticed, you're on a website dedicated to comic books.

Also...

"Batman's rich history allows him to be interpreted in a multitude of ways. To be sure, this is a lighter incarnation, but it's certainly no less valid and true to the character's roots than the tortured avenger crying out for mommy and daddy."

 

[Mister J]

Tone down the aggro, keepbatmanreal.

 

[Dew k. Mosi]

Let's calm it down in here and knock of the name calling, or this thread will go out the window, and we'll start giving out time outs.

 

[SixtyThree]

^He's high, with all do respect SIR, perhaps we should wait for him to stop foaming, he could be rabid!

 

[keepbatmanreal]

OK, OK Im sorry for callin you a nerd everyones a nerd in my opinion even me you just dont see it all the time, anyways not trying to be an ass hole but ugh sixty three just sent me this private message "You're a **** ****ing ******, and I would knock your know-it-all ass out in public if I ever met you. see you on the ban list. send me your facebook so i can see you." LOL hes so Mad. But seriously I want a debate.

 

[Morg]

^He's high, with all do respect SIR, perhaps we should wait for him to stop foaming, he could be rabid!

Sir? That's a she not a he

 

[keepbatmanreal]

SIR? What is this the voyager?

 

[Saved]

Keepbatmanreal, I don't fault you for wanting Batman to be isolated in his own universe without the inculcation of grandiose plots or super powered beings too far from the realm of possibility. If that's your favorite version of Batman, that's fine - but we all have our preferences and, frankly, Batman is more than just a "realistic hero". The Batman mythos has always had many incarnations, each with different norms and realities: both realistic, bizarre, and fantastic. To say Batman must chose one of these and always be like that is not only limiting the character and audience, but also ignoring years of history that have helped make the character and mythos what they are today.

I wasn't a fan of Brave and the Bold at first, either. But I gave it another shot and now I absolutely love it. If I were you, I'd give it another shot with the "Chill of the Night" Episode.

If you put Batman in a box, you're limiting yourself more than anything else - so it helps to expand your mind a bit.

 

[SixtyThree]

Female C.O. huh? *snaps to attention. SORRY MA'AM/SIR!!!! *slaute, about faces, leaves room

 

[keepbatmanreal]

Female C.O. huh? *snaps to attention. SORRY MA'AM/SIR!!!! *slaute, about faces, leaves room

Jeezuz man,

anyways Syn (Mercenary) your right I mean Im not talking about the Batman holocaust of all things silly Im just expressing the direction I would want the next film or comics to go in while giving my observations.

 

[IBRAH08]

Keepbatmanreal, I don't fault you for wanting Batman to be isolated in his own universe without the inculcation of grandiose plots or super powered beings too far from the realm of possibility. If that's your favorite version of Batman, that's fine - but we all have our preferences and, frankly, Batman is more than just a "realistic hero". The Batman mythos has always had many incarnations, each with different norms and realities: both realistic, bizarre, and fantastic. To say Batman must chose one of these and always be like that is not only limiting the character and audience, but also ignoring years of history that have helped make the character and mythos what they are today.

I wasn't a fan of Brave and the Bold at first, either. But I gave it another shot and now I absolutely love it. If I were you, I'd give it another shot with the "Chill of the Night" Episode.

If you put Batman in a box, you're limiting yourself more than anything else - so it helps to expand your mind a bit.

Truth spoken. Why limit Batman, one of the most diverse heroes, to one idea? And further more how does that have anything to do with the Joker v Batman thing. I don't really know how to address your character comparisons as they are very strange. I used to be all about grounded batman for a while, but then Morrison's Batman & Robin (and also his run on Batman, but I understand that is more controversial) came along,and I think I may prefer fantasy Batman now (I like them both). And look at Clayface (especially in BTAS, so badass) there are just so many great characters that exist outside the "gritty stories". Plus (as you thread is very much about the Joker) The Joker is really not the most "gritty and real" character ever. He has dyed skin and hair and uses joker toxins and is (seemingly) immortal. So, I think your militancy is misguided. you are, of course, entitled to your opinion though.

 

[Batjosh]

If there's one definitive thing we know, it's that Batman does not eat nachos!