Batman Begins, the greatest superhero origin story in the history of fiction...

I'd put Superman, Spider-Man and Iron Man over Batman Begins.

Felt they did a better natural love interest. Even in Iron Man, it didn't feel forced. Maybe it's due to the story in Batman Begins or Katie Holmes portrayal.

First Class is also good and if it was the technical first movie, I'd rank it higher but the whole Mystique as Charles's "sister" in an already established continuity just bothered me a bit.
 
Honestly, I think Iron Man is the best recent superhero origin film, which is why the sequels were such a massive disappointment.

I rank Begins and Man of Steel as tied for second place, in terms of origin stories, with Raimi's Spider Man 3rd.

Having said that I still think Begins is an excellent film (although flawed, even when i saw it i thought the microwave device a bit silly) but it had so many great moments that really captured the essence of Batman -and Bale captured his defining traits particularly his obsession and rage - sure Batman is about conquering fear but really his primary motivations are rage, at what he perceives as injustice, and a messianic complex
that only he can "save" Gotham - the best part of Nolan's trilogy is that it has an end, in which Bruce finally lets go of these.

As previous posters have said BB pretty much resurrected the character's movie career.


IMHO The Dark Knight is still the best superhero film but Iron Man is the best recent origin film (nothing beats Superman the Movie, which despite some serious flaws pretty much created the genre).

Why is Iron Man the best ? It just feels the most complete and (unlike the sequels) has a compelling character arc. BB is close, but not quite as good. Well thats my opinion. Cheers.
 
Batman Begins seems to be getting more and more overrated. I am not sure what is driving it.

Probably that other than Superman: The Movie and maybe Sam Raimi's Spider-Man, Batman Begins is the only superhero origin film that stands up as a really good movie years or decades later with high rewatch value. It is a great piece of filmmaking that also happens to be a superhero origin movie. And it tells it brilliantly for about 80% of the running time, and even when it does stumble a little at the end, it is relatively minor (especially when compared to the bigger third act issues faced by STM, Raimi's Spider-Man, IM1, CA:TFA, etc.).

I know some will say the first Iron Man. But I don't know. I feel like the MCU has so gone away from that original vision Favreau had for the character that it now just feels more like the MCU "Pilot." It does not have that epic, cinematic quality that Nolan, Donner, and Raimi brought to their efforts. Then again, I think that is still more a testament to how the MCU has changed its perception than the actual film itself.

Anyway, I feel like when folks study the superhero movie craze of the early 21st century, the Nolan trilogy will be considered the highlight along with probably the first Avengers film. Just a hunch.
 
Oh right, because the Nolan Batman movies are soooo mature and deep.

None of the subtext is forced or pretentious.

At least Marvel movies are proud of being comic book movies. They don't use realism as a misguided attempt at finding legitimacy from film snobs.

I am not sure when 2/3 of the franchise each gross $1 billion+ worldwide and one of them wins an Oscar for Best Supporting Actor that they're only for "film snobs."

I do think for people who love movies, as in their place in history and revisiting older films and just not what is coming out next year or this summer, they have more heft to return to than 90 percent of the MCU (do you really have a burning desire to rewatch Iron Man 2, The Incredible Hulk, Thor, Thor: The Dark World, Iron Man 3, or Captain America: The First Avenger?).

I am not trying to start a flame war, I just want to offer a counterpoint to the increasing Nolan backlash on this site.
 
The backlash has come about because Nolan was seen as being selfish for being firm on where he wanted to take the series. A lot of fans could just never get over the fact Nolan stripped away certain parts of the Batman mythology but couldn't complain at the time because the results spoke for themselves. Now a few years have past and that the character is returning to more 'fantastical' setting as it were the knives are coming out. The irony being his decision to close off certain aspect of the Batman mythology ended up producing the best film the genre has to offer, which even the most hardcore of fantastical supporters would struggle to argue against. The truth is Begins and TDK left a lasting legacy in the genre, especially Begins. Without that film the genre goes down a completely different path.
 
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I like Begins more than TDK. Batman is actually awesome. The scene at the docks... THAT is Batman. I also really like the scenes with Bruce and Ra's before he becomes Batman.

TDK has these philosophical themes and is a well made movie with some stunning performances. But Batman actively sucks as a character, it has huge leaps in it's own internal logic when it's necessary for the plot, and at the end of the day "would you abandon your morals to stop the bad guys" isn't really that ground breaking or complex a question like some people make out. The finale with the boats is a microcosm of the films theme, but it's fumbled in my view because of how contrived the set up is and due to the atrocious acting by the civilians and prisoners.

But... the real finale with Batman, Dent and Gordon is great.
 
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I don't think it's the best superhero origin movie but I do actually think Batman Begins is the best Batman movie.
 
I'd say it's tied, or slightly above, Spider-Man and Iron Man as the best superhero origin film.
 
I am not sure when 2/3 of the franchise each gross $1 billion+ worldwide and one of them wins an Oscar for Best Supporting Actor that they're only for "film snobs."

I do think for people who love movies, as in their place in history and revisiting older films and just not what is coming out next year or this summer, they have more heft to return to than 90 percent of the MCU (do you really have a burning desire to rewatch Iron Man 2, The Incredible Hulk, Thor, Thor: The Dark World, Iron Man 3, or Captain America: The First Avenger?).

I am not trying to start a flame war, I just want to offer a counterpoint to the increasing Nolan backlash on this site.

Agreed, because I still have an interest in revisiting the Nolan trilogy and watching all three Batman films again. The same goes for Man of Steel. Sometime in the future I'm planning to get surgery and got to take several days off afterwards taking it easy. I'm already planning on watching these...AGAIN. Now the MCU, not so much. Though I have been itching to watch GOTG again and I did just watch Winter Soldier for a third time (first two was in theaters) but all the others no. Hell, I gave IM2 to a friend and said don't bother giving it back. The Nolan films feel like actual stand alone films that just happen to be using the Batman license. They deal with complex, deep themes, intriguing characters with possible debating material. Is Ra's vision of justice better? Was Bruce wrong to want to kill Joe Chill? Does the Joker have a point on "these civilized people?" With Batman gone, crime down and the Dent Act was Bane & Talia right that Gotham still isn't redeemable?

Honestly, I think this whole anti-Nolan thing is just the new cool thing to do.
 
Agreed, because I still have an interest in revisiting the Nolan trilogy and watching all three Batman films again. The same goes for Man of Steel. Sometime in the future I'm planning to get surgery and got to take several days off afterwards taking it easy. I'm already planning on watching these...AGAIN. Now the MCU, not so much. Though I have been itching to watch GOTG again and I did just watch Winter Soldier for a third time (first two was in theaters) but all the others no. Hell, I gave IM2 to a friend and said don't bother giving it back. The Nolan films feel like actual stand alone films that just happen to be using the Batman license. They deal with complex, deep themes, intriguing characters with possible debating material. Is Ra's vision of justice better? Was Bruce wrong to want to kill Joe Chill? Does the Joker have a point on "these civilized people?" With Batman gone, crime down and the Dent Act was Bane & Talia right that Gotham still isn't redeemable?

Honestly, I think this whole anti-Nolan thing is just the new cool thing to do.

I watch TDK once a week or so, but I've been meaning to sit down and watch the whole trilogy (although work, wife, dogs and life in general keep getting in the way). While I think that TDKR is the weakest chapter, and has the least re-watch value (plus some of the lines just come across as awkward, and I disliked the whole Bane Voice thing, if he'd just let Hardy deliver those lines without the ridiculous Darth Vader sound, they'd have been awesome), it still has a satisfying (if ludicrous) last act and ending - but this is more than made up for by the first two chapters.

While there does seem to be a strong anti-Nolan sentiment that runs through a lot of these threads, I still think he's the man. He did something which was always going to be incredibly difficult, resurrect Batman as a film character after Joel Schumacher pretty much destroyed him. Not only did he take Batman in a 180 degree direction, he seamlessly knitted a guy in a black bat costume into everyday reality ( well, in BB Gotham is a bit stylized, in terms of the Narrows, but in TDK it's pretty much just Chicago. And somehow Batman doesn't feel totally out of place).

Best of all, like you said, Nolan questions the whole point of Batman himself -whether he really is an effective response to crime, or does he actually make things worse. If anything TDK is almost an anti-superhero movie because while Batman does eventually take down the Joker, along the way Harvey Dent (who, is arguably a better man than either Gordon or Batman) is utterly destroyed, Rachel dies, the city endures a mass panic and Batman himself is driven into hiding. So not the best solution.

The other moral of the Dark Knight films is that Alfred is always right.
In TDKR if Batman had just listened to Alfred at the beginning (and passed on his information to the cops) they probably would have been able to take out Bane and his Thugs, before they took over the city and freed everyone in Blackgate. Maybe if he'd listened to Alfred and taken Bane seriously before trying to take him on man to man, he'd have brought along some actually effective Bat-gadgets (like the Bat knockout darts) rather than fight him hand to hand ( why on earth does Batman believe in fighting fair ? ).

I'm sure that Nolan made the films as stand-alones, because I remember him being interviewed and saying that he had planned a beginning, middle and end of the story. This was awesome, because realistically Batman couldnt' go on forever, and up until this point only Frank Miller (and this was young, super talented, not so crazy Frank Miller) had the balls to write the tale of Batman's ending.


Sorry, this turned into a bit of a diversion. Anyway, what I was trying to say
was yes, the Nolan trilogy took a different look at the whole Batman mythos and it was an engaging and original approach, so don't believe the haters.
 
I really enjoyed the Nolan trilogy.

But I think "some" of the Anti-Nolan sentiment stems from the over ******ing of some of his more passionate fans on at least this board. Some fans aren't just content over the quality of these films, that they need to bring down other films and franchises.

And before anyone jumps on me, saying well MCU or Fox or Sony fans are just as bad, doesn't excuse posters like the OP of this thread who needed to knock MCU to prop up BB.

I still think the Nolan trilogy is the best CBM trilogy. But let's be honest, IM is a distant second with an almost average sequel, Spider-Man, X-Men, Blade had lack luster finales so it's not like it was a high bench mark to beat. I'm curious to see how the 2nd series of X-Men (FC, DOFP and X:A) measures up as well as Cap 3 and Avengers 3 does.
 
Love Batman Begins. The Dark Knight is a better movie, but I've watched Begins 5x more than TDK. I just love seeing this interpretation of Batman's origins. As another poster stated, Nolan's Batman trilogy is head and shoulders above anything else in the genre. However, the best origin film to me is still Iron Man.

I'm hoping these new Batman films continue with the "feel" Nolan set forth in his Batman universe.
 
I think Batman Begins is the best Superhero origin movie.
 
Well, Daredevil is better than all of them :yay: Ahem, not the movie ... the netflix show ...
 
One thing I thought Begins executes to near perfection that almost no other version did is their depiction of Gotham. Batman was always meant to fight crime and corruption, but I've seen too many interpretations put too much emphasis on "crime" to the point they almost completely forget the corruption part or just shy away from it. It's often not just a waste of potential, but it also simplifies Bruce's cause IMO. However, Nolan and Co. attack that idea straight on from the get-go by showing us why Gotham is the way it is.

I would argue it's the second best introduction to Gotham we've ever been given (the first still being Miller's Year One).
 
One thing I thought Begins executes to near perfection that almost no other version did is their depiction of Gotham. Batman was always meant to fight crime and corruption, but I've seen too many interpretations put too much emphasis on "crime" to the point they almost completely forget the corruption part or just shy away from it. It's often not just a waste of potential, but it also simplifies Bruce's cause IMO. However, Nolan and Co. attack that idea straight on from the get-go by showing us why Gotham is the way it is.

I would argue it's the second best introduction to Gotham we've ever been given (the first still being Miller's Year One).

Good point, Shika.

It's been ten years, but BB was such a revelation. IMO, everything up to Ra's burning downing Wayne Manor was absolute perfection. The Ra's twist was amazing. The finale wasn't a letdown or anything, but you could tell Nolan tightened up on things in the sequels.

BB was such an intimate film, I had to take myself out of the movie for a few seconds because I couldn't quite grasp the depth of the film. Yeah, best origin story hands down.
 
It's one of the better one's but I can name at least 2 that I'd say were it's superior(not even counting odd stuff like Unbreakable, which could be seen as an origin story...albeit one that never went anywhere else after the origin). For my money both Superman: The Movie and Iron Man are definitely superior to Batman Begins. BB has that glaring Katie Holmes miscast along with the creation of the most poorly conceived ingenue in all of superhero cinema. I gotta mark it off serious points for that even if the rest is very solid and IMO the ONLY good Batman movie ever made to date.
 
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If we are really considering the greatest superhero origin in all of fiction, it's Amazing Fantasy 15. There's no other answer.

Far as movies go, Batman Begins is one of the greatest, for sure.
 
I find it quite hilarious that multiple people are saying it was "overrated" - it makes no sense what so ever - this movie didn't do exceptionally well in the box office, and relied on DVD sales too get the sequel made..if anything it was under rated by far, myself included never saw it in theatres because of how bad B&R was.


I understand's peoples dislike for Nolan's exposition - but I don't agree with the criticism of it, I'd say majority of people need that reinforcement of what the themes of a movie are - its quite easy too get lost in todays movies, especially for those that aren't completely invested in a movie (which I have too imagine most people who post on SHH are going too be, and won't fall into that category.)

It's my personal favorite super hero origin - as it was the first movie that made me fall in love with a character. I like other characters - but none have hit home like nolan did with the character. I've gone on, read comics, graphic novels, re-watched B:TAS etc., other heroes I've wiki'd most of their information.

If you look at GotG as a single entity, that's my close second, there growth as a team, felt very organic, much more so than the avengers ever did, and as other marvel super hero origins - they just don't excite my brain at all, there very black and white in the story, heres the hero and heres the villain, with a little about the journey. I don't constitute ironman in a cave building a suit after being kidnapped a journey. Begins goes through the heroes youth, there teenage/early college years full of anger, the growth into understanding that's not a long term solution, finding the tools needed, building the suit..in a cave.

I think you could talk about Captain America as being an option - but even in his original state of weakness - he's essentially the same attitude/person as captain america with muscles minus the fact he gets beat up.
 
Tony Stark being captured in a cave and building a suit isn't his journey, that's just the starting point. Batman's journey does begin as a child, which suits the film and provides plenty of room to get a look at Bruce Wayne and see his growth. Tony Stark's journey begins in that cave, making amends for everything he's done previously in his life. We don't necessarily need to see how he got to that point.
 
Batman Begins was basically my reintroduction to the whole superhero genre. I hadn't read comics in probably 15 years and had stopped watching superhero films after Batman and Robin. My love for this film wound up reigniting my interest in reading comics again and more importantly reminding me of how amazing superhero films can be if done correctly.
 
I love Batman Begins but i think it is the worst of the trilogy.

Some people say it is overrated, but if this is not the best superhero origin movie out there, wich is it? Just out of the top of my head, i can´t think of any that i could say it´s better than Batman Begins. The movie has a few strong flaws, but it´s not like its competition is perfect either.
 

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