Batman: kill or not kill?

[nathan andrew]

Generally I'm a new Batman fan. I don't go far back with the characters, but have read a few graphic novels, and enjoy the stories. Seeing as I'm not entirely familiar with the various histories of Batman, and all the story arches and each individual writer's characterization, I'm just wondering - does Batman ever kill? I know it is suggested at the end of the killing joke that he kills the Joker, does this kind of thing pop up in other stories? If not is it out of character for him to be driven to kill for any specific reasons?

 

[SenseiofCheese]

How is it implied he kills the Joker at the end of the Killing Joke?

As an answer to your question, Batman actually used a gun during the Golden Age, I believe, but any modern incarnation of him has him dead-set against killing. Once in a while he'll debate with himself, how easy it would be to kill the Joker and end the madness, but he never even comes close that I'm aware of.

 

[bulletbillx]

How is it implied he kills the Joker at the end of the Killing Joke?

As an answer to your question, Batman actually used a gun during the Golden Age, I believe, but any modern incarnation of him has him dead-set against killing. Once in a while he'll debate with himself, how easy it would be to kill the Joker and end the madness, but he never even comes close that I'm aware of.

He came close in Hush. Gordon had to talk him down. But outside of Joker and maybe Ras he never even comes close to thinking about killing someone.

 

[Andrizzle]

He killed all the time in the very first comic books

In two frames of "Professor Hugo Strange and The Monsters" in Batman No. 1 as Batman fires machine guns into a truck:

"But out of the sky, spitting death-- THE BATMAN!"

Then

"Much as I hate to take human life, I'm afraid THIS time it's necessary!"

 

[Joker]

I have a panel somewhere from one of the early 'Tec issues of him swinging by a window, and some mobster is leaning out of it, and he just kicks him right in the head and breaks his neck.

 

[sclabguy]

joker doesn't die in killing joke

 

[IRON_Lad]

You should read Batman:Ego if you want to see this debated in the comics (between bruce and Batman)

 

[nathan andrew]

How is it implied he kills the Joker at the end of the Killing Joke?

I think it's pretty implied, although not entirely direct. There is enough information to at least suggest it, or leave it open to the reader to decide.

The book opens with Batman visiting the Joker at the asylum to talk about their roundabouts. Batman thinks that they will end up killing each other, or that Batman may kill the Joker. Later in the book after another confrontation the Joker tells Batman a joke. Then:

in the second to last panel Batman silences the Joker's laugh and then his feet are removed from the panel. There is blood all over the ground. Anyone could argue and debate on end what this really means, but at the very least I think it's enough to suggest that Batman kills him, even if it does not show it outright. It could always be argued that he simply injured him very badly but not enough to kill, but I don't think this is what's being implied - that and the name of the book is "The Killing Joke".

Anyways thanks for your input guys. I'm thinking of a story to write for my own short novel, and wanted to analyze Batman's character.

 

[The Guard]

No. The importance of those panels is the shaft of light, and what it represents.

 

[Mister J]

I think it's pretty implied, although not entirely direct. There is enough information to at least suggest it, or leave it open to the reader to decide.

The book opens with Batman visiting the Joker at the asylum to talk about their roundabouts. Batman thinks that they will end up killing each other, or that Batman may kill the Joker. Later in the book after another confrontation the Joker tells Batman a joke. Then:

in the second to last panel Batman silences the Joker's laugh and then his feet are removed from the panel. There is blood all over the ground. Anyone could argue and debate on end what this really means, but at the very least I think it's enough to suggest that Batman kills him, even if it does not show it outright. It could always be argued that he simply injured him very badly but not enough to kill, but I don't think this is what's being implied - that and the name of the book is "The Killing Joke".

Anyways thanks for your input guys. I'm thinking of a story to write for my own short novel, and wanted to analyze Batman's character.

You think after how adamant Gordon was that Batman bring Joker "by the book" to "show him that our way works" that Bruce goes and offs him?

 

[The Joker]

I recall seeing a panel where Batman used some thug as a shield from gunfire.

 

[nathan andrew]

ah, I see what you mean by that shaft of light. I never even considered it. That and I realize now that it isn't blood on the ground but rather dry spots of dirt between the puddles (but why is it red??) It looks like the Joker is getting hauled off again by the police. It's been a while since I had read over the book, guess I didn't pay as close attention as I thought I had. hehe.

 

[Joker]

It's red because of the coloring. If you look at the new hardcover, it's not red, it's brown. And it's not implied Batman kills him at all, he is slapping him on the shoulder while laughing at the insanity of their situation though.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

Yeah, it's brown dirt/mud.

But you also do realize that the The Killing Joke has a place in Batman chronology, right? It's not a what-if story. He crippled Barbara, and she remained crippled thereafter in the monthly books. Thus, had Bats killed Joker...well, Joker would have been dead.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

I think it's pretty implied, although not entirely direct. There is enough information to at least suggest it, or leave it open to the reader to decide.

The book opens with Batman visiting the Joker at the asylum to talk about their roundabouts. Batman thinks that they will end up killing each other, or that Batman may kill the Joker. Later in the book after another confrontation the Joker tells Batman a joke. Then:

in the second to last panel Batman silences the Joker's laugh and then his feet are removed from the panel. There is blood all over the ground. Anyone could argue and debate on end what this really means, but at the very least I think it's enough to suggest that Batman kills him, even if it does not show it outright. It could always be argued that he simply injured him very badly but not enough to kill, but I don't think this is what's being implied - that and the name of the book is "The Killing Joke".

Anyways thanks for your input guys. I'm thinking of a story to write for my own short novel, and wanted to analyze Batman's character.

Not seeing it that way at all....

 

[theMan-Bat]

He killed all the time in the very first comic books

In two frames of "Professor Hugo Strange and The Monsters" in Batman No. 1 as Batman fires machine guns into a truck:

"But out of the sky, spitting death-- THE BATMAN!"

Then

"Much as I hate to take human life, I'm afraid THIS time it's necessary!"

 

[theMan-Bat]

I have a panel somewhere from one of the early 'Tec issues of him swinging by a window, and some mobster is leaning out of it, and he just kicks him right in the head and breaks his neck.

 

[theMan-Bat]

 

[Doctor Baywatch]

Yeyesyesyes. Everyone should know by now that Batman killed. But it doesn't matter. It's out of character now.

 

[theMan-Bat]

 

[theMan-Bat]

Yeyesyesyes. Everyone should know by now that Batman killed. But it doesn't matter. It's out of character now.

No it isn't. The Batman who appeared in DETECTIVE COMICS #27 - the one conceived and created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane, is as close to the "true" Batman as there is. And that Batman killed. I am an opposer of censorship in any form. It was an editorial policy that decided that Batman killing criminals is bad, not Finger and Kane.
"We had our first brush with censorship over Batman's use of a gun in BATMAN #1. In one story in that issue he had a machine gun mounted on his Batplane and used it. We didn't think anything was wrong with Batman carrying guns because the Shadow used guns. Bill Finger was called on to the carpet by Whitney Ellsworth. He said 'Never let Batman carry a gun again!' The editors thought that making Batman a 'murderer' would taint his character, and mothers would object. The new editorial policy was to get away from Batman's vigilantism and bring him over to the side of the law. So he was remade as an honorary member of the police. The whole moral climate changed in the 1940-1941 period. You couldn't kill or shot villains anymore. DC prepared it's own comics code which every artist and writer had to follow. He wasn't the Dark Knight anymore with all the censorship."
- Bob Kane, from his book Batman And Me.
http://sacomics.blogspot.com/2005/08/batman-and-guns.html
If Batman is to function in any sort of real world he wouldn't be able to avoid killing on occasion.

 

[theMan-Bat]

I recall seeing a panel where Batman used some thug as a shield from gunfire.

That I've never seen.

 

[Doctor Baywatch]

That I've never seen.

Year Two.

 

[-Crusher-]

you wanna see a big debate batman has with himself over whether he should kill joker or not? Hush.

 

[Cobblepot]

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=278721&highlight=batman+kill

Caught in the act! panel #3 from Detective Comics 572.
Written by Mike W. Barr.

Discuss the killer that is...

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