Should Batman kill again?

[Rasputin911]

"Bird Man" was all Bob Kane could come up with by himself so he went to Bill Finger for help and Bill Finger turned Bob Kane's "Bird Man" idea into the original Batman. I don't have a problem with Batman using guns and killing some criminals on occasion as he did in the source material by his creators and Tim Burton's Batman and Batman Returns movies. If Batman is to function in any sort of quasi-real world, he wouldn't be able to avoid using lethal weapons and killing on occasion. By using guns and killing, what makes Batman any better than the killers he fights? The fact that he does not pray on innocents. The fact that he fights against crime.

exactly. Not all killing is the same. And he wouldn't be executing unarmed criminals or anything, he'd use murder as a last resort either in self-defense or defense of innocents

 

[Majic Walrus]

"Bird Man" was all Bob Kane could come up with by himself so he went to Bill Finger for help and Bill Finger turned Bob Kane's "Bird Man" idea into the original Batman. I don't have a problem with Batman using guns and killing some criminals on occasion as he did in the source material by his creators and Tim Burton's Batman and Batman Returns movies. If Batman is to function in any sort of quasi-real world, he wouldn't be able to avoid using lethal weapons and killing on occasion. By using guns and killing, what makes Batman any better than the killers he fights? The fact that he does not pray on innocents. The fact that he fights against crime.

All I was saying is that source materials or the original idea don't necessarily make something a good idea. And **** functioning in a quasi-real world. He's the goddamn Batman, he doesn't care about the real world.

 

[theMan-Bat]

All I was saying is that source materials or the original idea don't necessarily make something a good idea.

Whether you think it's a good idea or not, right or wrong, it's part of the source material. Part of the Batman legend. That is really what's in control. That has a great deal more power than anyone has over it. It wont allow itself to get tossed out forever. It just comes back. It corrects itself: turns back. Batman killing came back. Batman using guns came back, police-beating, bone-breaking. DC tries to suppress those controversial elements, but it comes back.

And **** functioning in a quasi-real world. He's the goddamn Batman, he doesn't care about the real world.

I didn't say the real world. Quasi-real world. Meaning, to have some resemblance to the real world.

 

[DoomRulz]

Um, you guys are aware that Batman killed in his very first appearance in Detective Comics?

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Um, you guys are aware that Batman killed in his very first appearance in Detective Comics?

Ummmm you are aware that Batman killing in his early appearances has been mentioned about 20 or so times in this thread????

Or have you not read threw the pages???

And his killing back then, in my opinion really doesnt have anything to do with the debate.

I dont see the point of pointing out something a character did almost 70 years ago and has "rarely" done since.

The "NON" killing Batman has out lived the "Killing" version of the character by almost 65 years.

The character and what he stands for has change since then, he has evolved.

Wether or not that change was for the better of the character is what should be debated.

 

[DoomRulz]

Ummmm you are aware that Batman killing in his early appearances has been mentioned about 20 or so times in this thread????

Or have you not read threw the pages???

Bingo. I'm in class right now, didn't get a chance to

But in response to the OP, sure, I think Bats shouldn't kill. I say that mainly b/c it would make him hypocritical in the sense that if he really wants to avenge his parents' death, then killing all the criminals around him isn't the proper way to do it.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

I didn't say the real world. Quasi-real world. Meaning, to have some resemblance to the real world.

Would this mean you wouldn't have him in the same universe as Superman etc? Would there be villains like Clayface or Mr Freeze?

 

[theMan-Bat]

Would this mean you wouldn't have him in the same universe as Superman etc? Would there be villains like Clayface or Mr Freeze?

I mean having some resemblance to the real world to terms of the fierceness of crime, the level of corruption, the fierceness of violence, the fatality of violence, the randomness of crime, and having some resemblance to a political reality. The country being essentially a war zone, which I don't regard as science fiction. Superman (with reduced power like Miller's version), Clayface and Mr. Freeze could exist and yet the world could still be a lousy place to live in. If he's only fighting criminals in situations were nobody dies, then it all gets that much more preposterous.

 

[deadskie]

I think having Batman kill, would be the equivalent of dropping a bomb of some kind--it'd be all exciting and mass hysteria at first, but the aftermath wouldn't be nearly as appealing.

I don't know. I suppose I just get a kick out of the possibility Batman could cross the line, but doesn't. Figure it lends to an awful lot of tension, just seeing how far he would go. That, and if he did start killing people--well, there goes all the good villains.

I don't think I'd necessarily be against it in a one-shot deal, though. Just to see where such an act would take him.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

I think having Batman kill, would be the equivalent of dropping a bomb of some kind--it'd be all exciting and mass hysteria at first, but the aftermath wouldn't be nearly as appealing.

I don't know. I suppose I just get a kick out of the possibility Batman could cross the line, but doesn't. Figure it lends to an awful lot of tension, just seeing how far he would go. That, and if he did start killing people--well, there goes all the good villains.

I don't think I'd necessarily be against it in a one-shot deal, though. Just to see where such an act would take him.

Which is why I think a writer like Matt Wagner, Paul Dini or someone else would do a brilliant job with the prospect, in the form of an out-of-continuity graphic novel.

 

[November Rain]

THe thing is batman doesn't necessarily value all life equally. He'd happily kill a white martian (hypothetically) but spare a human.

what gives with that?

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Which is why I think a writer like Matt Wagner, Paul Dini or someone else would do a brilliant job with the prospect, in the form of an out-of-continuity graphic novel.

But thats been done already....so what would be the point.

Batman "KILLED" Quain in "Son of the Demon" which was an "out of continuity graphic novel".

Batman killed the Joker in "JLA: the nail" an other out of continuity graphic novel.

In "Batman the Cult" which at the time was "IN CONTINUITY" [I'm not sure if it still is] Batman killed a guy......but he was broken, brainwashed and drugged at the time.

And Batman killed in an "in continuity" book about a year or so a go.He "Accidentally" kicked a guy into the path of a train.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

But thats been done already....so what would be the point.

Batman "KILLED" Quain in "Son of the Demon" which was an "out of continuity graphic novel".

Batman killed the Joker in "JLA: the nail" an other out of continuity graphic novel.

In "Batman the Cult" which at the time was "IN CONTINUITY" [I'm not sure if it still is] Batman killed a guy......but he was broken, brainwashed and drugged at the time.

And Batman killed in an "in continuity" book about a year or so a go.He "Accidentally" kicked a guy into the path of a train.

You don't get my point. I mean a comic centering around his reaction and redemption from killing someone in cold blood who had done something horrible. Not accidentally, he pushed that sucker off the roof to kill him willingly. The ones you all mention either don't count (Quian especially) or just have no argument. I mean a comic literally like The Killing Joke, which was also meant as an out-of-continuity at first, but wasn't as elseworlds, it was set in the same universe and same city as proper continuity. That's what I want, to see someone explore the reactions and consequence of Batman crossing that line.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

You don't get my point. I mean a comic centering around his reaction and redemption from killing someone in cold blood who had done something horrible. Not accidentally, he pushed that sucker off the roof to kill him willingly. The ones you all mention either don't count (Quian especially) or just have no argument. I mean a comic literally like The Killing Joke, which was also meant as an out-of-continuity at first, but wasn't as elseworlds, it was set in the same universe and same city as proper continuity. That's what I want, to see someone explore the reactions and consequence of Batman crossing that line.

Ok I see where your trying to go but I have a question......How does Batman killing Quian not count????

Also Batman killing Joke in "The Nail" seems to fit the critira you just set forth.