Batman Returns: Scene by Scene

[Homer J. Fong]

Keep up the amazing work fellas. I wonder, will you guys look at the Schufacher films too?

I'm definitely going to do one of these for Batman Forever. Batman & Robin...I kind of doubt it.

 

[JohnnyGobbs]

I'm definitely going to do one of these for Batman Forever. Batman & Robin...I kind of doubt it.

I don't know...it could be fun.

 

[Homer J. Fong]

I don't know...it could be fun.

Oh, it could be fun all right. The thing is, I think it'd be less interesting to examine that movie's (we're calling it a movie, right?) individual scenes because the things that are wrong with it are there in pretty much every scene, so it might get monotonous. Then again, I know I haven't fully voiced my grievances with the film on this board, and maybe there could even be positives I didn't know were there. So maybe.

 

[JohnnyGobbs]

Oh, it could be fun all right. The thing is, I think it'd be less interesting to examine that movie's (we're calling it a movie, right?) individual scenes because the things that are wrong with it are there in pretty much every scene, so it might get monotonous. Then again, I know I haven't fully voiced my grievances with the film on this board, and maybe there could even be positives I didn't know were there. So maybe.

I agree that the format could be changed, or each chapter commentary could be a little shorter than usual, but I'm sure there are a few good things to say about the film.

 

[dude stannis]

I'm definitely going to do one of these for Batman Forever. Batman & Robin...I kind of doubt it.

B&R was on TV here last night, watched about 15 minutes of it. Arnold is hilarious. But the rest of it is unwatchable.

 

[The Englishman]

I'm definitely going to do one of these for Batman Forever. Batman & Robin...I kind of doubt it.

They are practically the same scenes anyway.....

 

[Homer J. Fong]

I'll post my .02 on scene 8 in a day or two, and I'll probably do scene 9 along with it, because 8 is so short.

 

[JohnnyGobbs]

I'll post my .02 on scene 8 in a day or two, and I'll probably do scene 9 along with it, because 8 is so short.

Looking forward to it.

 

[Homer J. Fong]

8. After Hours with Selina

(Running time: 0:23:08 - 0:25:15)

The Rundown
A peek into Selina Kyle's exciting night life as she comes home, greets her non-existent husband, feeds her cat, and checks her messages: one from her judgmental mother chiding her for not coming home for Christmas, one from her boyfriend dumping her on the advice of his therapist, and one from herself reminding her to return to the office to pick up a file for an important meeting.

The Review
You know, Vicki Vale's apartment in the first film only becomes noteworthy when we see Selina's, and it's a mark of how completely different those two characters are; Vicki's place was sleek, very designed, and, so I've heard, had lots of space. Selina's is the polar opposite; it's very lived-in, but rather bleak and oppressive. And that is absolutely what Selina Kyle's life is: bleak and (especially) oppressive. We're seeing a different side of her in this scene, a Selina who isn't meek and totally repressed naturally, but who's been beaten into submission, not just by Shreck, but by the stereotypical crazy-critical mother, by the neurotic, self-absorbed boyfriend(s), by life. We see that Selina has some bite, she has some bitterness, she has a wry, dark sense of humor, and we want to see more of that personality. For now, though, it's back to the office for that Bruce Wayne file.

Michelle Pfeiffer's wonderful in this scene - she's wonderful in every scene, but we're on this one now, so I'm going to point out a few touches that I really love: that great "Oh, I forgot: I'm not married" - it's obvious she's joking, but there's also a little tweak to make you think she's actually forgotten, in a moment of wishful thinking or something; the utter exhaustion in the way she moves when she feeds the cat and plays her mother's message; the way she rushes out to hear her boyfriend's message, and how that upbeat moment just totally sinks ("Some appendage!"); the facepalm moment when she hears her own message and instantly remembers what she'd forgotten. Pfeiffer inhabits this character with perfect complexity and humanity.

This scene is only truly interesting after seeing its mirror in scene 10, though, so don't worry, these posts get better.

The Rest
Is it just me, or does "After Hours with Selina" sound like her late-night Skinemax spin-off series that never happened?

 

[Smalley]

You know, Vicki Vale's apartment in the first film only becomes noteworthy when we see Selina's, and it's a mark of how completely different those two characters are; Vicki's place was sleek, very designed, and, so I've heard, had lots of space. Selina's is the polar opposite; it's very lived-in, but rather bleak and oppressive.

This scene is only truly interesting after seeing its mirror in scene 10, though, so don't worry, these posts get better.

That's a damn good point about the differences between their apartments, I might've should've mentioned that in my own write-ups. And I thought this post was good by itself, so don't worry

 

[Brother Jack]

I honestly love that scene. I've always liked what Burton and Pfieffer did with Selina by making her kind of pathetic, meek, and oppressed. It creates a psychological reason for why this person would want to put on a costume and live the exciting and exotic life of a cat-burglar (putting aside the near-death experience and subsequent mental break of this particular version).

 

[The Navigator]

I'm going to have to keep tabs on this thread, it's making me approach BR in a different light.

 

[Homer J. Fong]

9. "Not Like You Can Kill Me"

(Running time: 0:25:16 - 0:28:26)

The Rundown
Discovering that Ms. Kyle has gone far too deep in her digging into his power plant project, Shreck pushes Selina out the window to her...death?

The Review
In an interview on the bonus material, Marion Dougherty, the casting director, says that when she first suggested Christopher Walken for the Max Shreck role, Burton responded by saying, "Oh, no, he scares me," and quite seriously. And this is Tim Burton, one of cinema's masters of the strange, and the dark, and all things macabre. Just the same, it's not hard to understand that. Walken is always a commanding presence, and he has a marvelous capacity for the dryly ridiculous, which he exploits occasionally in this film, but Shreck is, of course, and more than the other two "villains," mostly menacing, and this is by far his most menacing scene. Shreck comes to the conclusion that Selina has done a bit too much research quickly, and spends the rest of the scene toying with her, like a...well, cat playing with a ball of string would be too on-the-nose for me to stomach, so I'll leave it at "toying with her." To watch Walken and Pfeiffer play this scene is to watch two really great actors genuinely connecting to each other to deliver a superior moment of tension. Shreck's response of, "Actually, it's a lot like that," after Selina says, "It's not like you can just kill me," and his subsequent playful, "Ha? Ha?" very briefly act as the sigh of relief moment - like the Best Friend walking right behind the terrified Lead Girl in a slasher movie, revealing herself to not actually be the killer after all (phew!), but then, of course, Shreck proves himself quite sincere in saying he could just kill her. Batman & Robin's Poison Ivy origin scene echoes this one strongly, and weakly, but more on that in the eventual Batman & Robin scene-by-scene thread.

Stefan Czapsky's cinematography is wonderfully atmospheric here, with the unease always palpable. The effect on the light on Michelle Pfeiffer's face when she's sitting at the desk gives her a strange, striking kind of cat's-eye look that obviously fits, and according to Burton, it wasn't planned, just a result of messing around with the lights at that time and hitting upon something. I love observing/discovering happy accidents like that. On Walken's side, there are shots of him at that same point where he's lit like a figure out of a Universal monster movie. The bullied, intimidated underling and the looming force in power. It's acting through cinematography. It's using cinematography to illustrate/reinforce character.

The Rest
-I've always found the image of Shreck holding a chihuahua (named Geraldo!) both hilarious and fascinating.

-When Selina mentions opening protected files, and Shreck replies, "How industrious," Selina gives this look that's at once delighted to have had his approval and nervous about where this is going, and the balance is just right.

-I don't need to point out that Selina falls through three of those awnings for a reason (although I sort of just did).

 

[returntovoid]

I'm definitely going to do one of these for Batman Forever. Batman & Robin...I kind of doubt it.

Batman Forever: Flaw by Flaw

Batman & Robin: Crap by Crap

 

[Smalley]

-I don't need to point out that Selina falls through three of those awnings for a reason (although I sort of just did).

Oh yeah, Burton was smart to put in the ambiguity about whether Selina actually dies in the film or not, as it makes her character all the more intriguing, and people are still endlessly debating it to this day...

 

[Smalley]

Oh, and...

-When Selina mentions opening protected files, and Shreck replies, "How industrious," Selina gives this look that's at once delighted to have had his approval and nervous about where this is going, and the balance is just right.

...never noticed that. Rewatching it again, it looks like she almost smiles full-on with her teeth at first, quickly thinks better of it ("Should I really fully accept and be pleased at this compliment? Will doing so make me look arrogant? Does he genuinely mean it?"), then decides to really smile (a subdued one, with her mouth closed) and gives a slight, happy nod, almost like an often-ignored dog getting its belly rubbed. I think this really shows Selina's lowly status in comparison to Shreck's, and more importantly, how scared she is of getting her boss miffed, even if just unintentionally, with a mere facial reaction to what he says, almost like she automatically second-guesses any compliments she receives from him (which she's right to do so here, heh). It's not surprising that Selina does eventually accept the compliment, considering her lame boyfriend, domineering mother, and sexist ads on her voicemail...

 

[ALP]

For a moment I was beginning to get sad because I've been away for a while and thought I missed everything in this thread! But I see we've still got a ways to go.

 

[Smalley]

Hey!

 

[GothamAlleys]

Oh yeah, Burton was smart to put in the ambiguity about whether Selina actually dies in the film or not, as it makes her character all the more intriguing, and people are still endlessly debating it to this day...

Yeah, that was a great move to leave it open for interpretation, however it cant be attributed fully to Burton. If one looks back to the Golden Age portrayal of Catwoman, its the same thing. Its identical to the thing in the movie - she gets shot multiple times like with Shreck and to the shock of the shooters shes still going, she falls from incredible heights and her body can never be found by Batman and Robin and she always comes back

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Michelle Pfeiffer's wonderful in this scene - she's wonderful in every scene, but we're on this one now, so I'm going to point out a few touches that I really love: that great "Oh, I forgot: I'm not married" - it's obvious she's joking, but there's also a little tweak to make you think she's actually forgotten, in a moment of wishful thinking or something; the utter exhaustion in the way she moves when she feeds the cat and plays her mother's message; the way she rushes out to hear her boyfriend's message, and how that upbeat moment just totally sinks ("Some appendage!"); the facepalm moment when she hears her own message and instantly remembers what she'd forgotten. Pfeiffer inhabits this character with perfect complexity and humanity.

Made me smile t:

 

[Smalley]

Well, anyway, while we wait for this to start up again, maybe you guys would be interested in my scene-by-scene thread?
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/vine/showthread.php?t=2260010

 

[Homer J. Fong]

Okay, I've been away from this thread for longer than I expected, but finals are done, I have time on my hands, and it's almost Christmas, so let's get back into writing way too much/not enough about Batman Returns. This post will probably be rather rambling, as I haven't done this in a while.







10. Catwoman Born

(Running time: 0:28:27 - 0:33:47)

The Rundown
A traumatized Selina returns home and proceeds to destroy her apartment, and her old life, and remake herself as something darker, stronger, and much…yummier.

The Review
Batman Returns is not a particularly literal film. It's not subtle really, but it's not literal; it's not so literal as to say that The Penguin was raised by penguins and Selina was resurrected by cats. Of course, it's easy to understand why those are the perceptions, but it's more reasonable to say that The Penguin was raised by the rest of the Red Triangle Circus gang and Selina was stirred awake by those cats (again, she seems to have survived that fall, what with those three awnings sort of cushioning it). And yet, if you do firmly believe that this is a death/rebirth situation in that literal sense, that's still okay, because Batman Returns is the kind of film that would go out on that limb. One of the things I really love about this movie is how little it cares about logic; suspension of disbelief is key to enjoying it, because what we're meant to care about are the characters of Bruce, Oswald, and Selina. More (much more) than its predecessor, Batman Returns goes out on such a limb, genuine Expressionist cinema in the way it uses every camera angle, every set, every article of clothing to illustrate and develop its main characters, and putting anything else aside.

Speaking of going out on a limb...I don't even know what to say about Michelle Pfeiffer in this scene. She's simply amazing. I just saw Black Swan a few hours ago, and I have the two films linked in my mind right now, mainly because Natalie Portman gives a performance similar in its bravado and utter commitment. It's also really heartening to look back at a performance like this and see how great it is, when you consider that "comic book movies" were not exactly taken seriously at this point. This scene is wild, terrifying, exhilarating, largely thanks to Pfeiffer.

Not entirely, though. We hear Danny Elfman's Catwoman theme in full force here, and I think it's one of his best compositions, with those incredible high, piercing strings. Actually, it should probably be irritating, but it's such a fitting and compelling musical motif for her character.

The Rest
Here's one of those little things that says that Selina didn't just snap and become a completely different person when Shreck pushed her out of the window: the coat that she makes the Catwoman suit from (yeah, she makes the whole suit from basically just a coat - doesn't mak the most sense, but so what?). Obviously, that's not something the Selina we've been seeing would likely have worn, but...Who knows? Maybe Selina went through a "rebellious" phase. Maybe she's tried to remake herself (more consciously, less traumatically) in the past. Maybe she just has something wilder and darker inside her.

 

[Harry_Lime02]

Worth the wait. Good job, I hope there's more to come soon.

 

[RustyCage]

Oh yeah, Burton was smart to put in the ambiguity about whether Selina actually dies in the film or not, as it makes her character all the more intriguing, and people are still endlessly debating it to this day...

It's only ambiguous from Batman's perspective, really. The film makes it pretty clear she's alive by actually showing her at the end.

 

[Smalley]

It's only ambiguous from Batman's perspective, really. The film makes it pretty clear she's alive by actually showing her at the end.

I wasn't talking about whether it was ambiguous if she was still alive, I'm talking about how it was ambiguous if she actually did have "nine" lives or not, and was simply incredibly lucky.