BvS Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?

[Nathan]

Heck, he could put him down from across the room, just by blowing wind at him.

And EVEN if Superman decides to move at normal speed, nothing the BAT can do with his human physical strength can even budge superman... you can't kung-fu an immovable object (relatively, supe would be immovable to any humans).

I have to admit though, I loved it when Batman threw him in the World's Finest. But that worked only because it was unexpected and Superman never thought that a regular human would try to throw him. But when he's ready, and doesn't want to be moved, he won't move.

 

[D.P.]

I'm not sure if this is a serious question or not.

Anybody who has picked up a comic in the last few decades know that Batman can bring a fight with Superman down to his level...

 

[Nathan]

I'm not sure if this is a serious question or not.

Anybody who has picked up a comic in the last few decades know that Batman can bring a fight with Superman down to his level...

Only because writers come up with contrived scenarios and Superman himself never uses all the abilities at his disposal. And out of all the scenarios and Elseworld Tales, I'm only ok with the Red Son story.

 

[Project862006]

the question is would superman fight batman he fought zod and co. because they were alien like him i doubt he would want to hurt a human he showed restraint as a child by not hitting bullies

 

[robot]

Heck, he could put him down from across the room, just by blowing wind at him.



I have to admit though, I loved it when Batman threw him in the World's Finest. But that worked only because it was unexpected and Superman never thought that a regular human would try to throw him. But when he's ready, and doesn't want to be moved, he won't move.

I don't know about that. I think ready or not, he's basically immovable...

Imagine, an ant trying to throw you... u don't have to be ready...

Also, there's something called reflex. Say, you accidentally stepped on a stone and was gonna fall, but you somehow upright yourself...

If Supe was caught offguard (he never will), even if he is, his reflex will kick in and he'll just be floating there... remember, time scale is completely different for Superman than for a human.. Superman can see/hear/move/do a lot inside of 1 second... he has to, in order for him to be able to navigate at sonic speeds...

 

[robot]

the question is would superman fight batman he fought zod and co. because they were alien like him i doubt he would want to hurt a human he showed restraint as a child by not hitting bullies

Even if so, then why not just stand there and take the beating without a blink of an eye.. why make it look like he's being defeated by batman all the time??? by mere karate chops??

 

[Project862006]

Even if so, then why not just stand there and take the beating without a blink of an eye.. why make it look like he's being defeated by batman all the time??? by mere karate chops??

to not hurt his ego

 

[Nathan]

I don't know about that. I think ready or not, he's basically immovable...

Imagine, an ant trying to throw you... u don't have to be ready...

The difference is, Superman doesn't weigh several thousand times more than Batman. And if he doesn't steady himself, or use his flight ability to just stay grounded, he can be thrown.

Also, there's something called reflex. Say, you accidentally stepped on a stone and was gonna fall, but you somehow upright yourself...

If Supe was caught offguard (he never will), even if he is, his reflex will kick in and he'll just be floating there... remember, time scale is completely different for Superman than for a human.. Superman can see/hear/move/do a lot inside of 1 second... he has to, in order for him to be able to navigate at sonic speeds...

Eh, I was ok with it, simply because he never expected someone to be stupid enough to try. And when Batman did, he was probably like "The hell? Is he serious?" and as he flies "He knows I'm Superman right?".

 

[Nathan]

the question is would superman fight batman he fought zod and co. because they were alien like him i doubt he would want to hurt a human he showed restraint as a child by not hitting bullies

Why wouldn't he? When he attacks him, and Superman thinks there's the possibility other people could be harmed, because this masked lunatic starts a fight with him, he should put him down for the count.

 

[robot]

The difference is, Superman doesn't weigh several thousand times more than Batman. And if he doesn't steady himself, or use his flight ability to just stay grounded, he can be thrown.
.

TBH, I still don't buy it... Writers keep writing silly things into superman vs batman.. they should just not have them fight at all.. at least not physically..

Just watch even Spiderman.. even the slightest movement of air around him, and he's alert.. don't forget, these are Super Humans, they also have super reflex, and they are super alert.. Remember, Superman heard Zod threatening his mom from miles away (even when he's not trying to hear it.. he's just super aware of his surroundings at all times)...

How in the world would someone like that be 'caught off guard'..

Imagine this... you're aware of your surroundings a million times/sec... and then you see someone (say batman), moving at snail pace, coming closer to you, menacing, about to pounce on you.. and to you, a whole 'hour' have passed before he even comes close to throwing you... in all that time, you play 'taken by surprise?'

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Because that is not in his character. Superman just doesn't hit humans, unless they've got some pretty incredible armour.

 

[robot]

Because that is not in his character. Superman just doesn't hit humans, unless they've got some pretty incredible armour.

Except that he does.. when it comes to batman, he's constantly trying to fight him.. but always loses... dang!!!

 

[D.P.]

Only because writers come up with contrived scenarios and Superman himself never uses all the abilities at his disposal. And out of all the scenarios and Elseworld Tales, I'm only ok with the Red Son story.

Well, it doesn't matter whether or not you or anyone else agrees with how it happened, what matters is it happened.

These moments exist and some are canonical, some aren't. They were printed on ink and paper and can never be changed because they are part of history.

Batman has bested Superman several times - fact.

Writers have always written Superman as showing restraint towards 99% percent of his opponents and Batman has always been written as one of the smartest minds in the entire DC universe on top of being a master strategist. Your beef is with the writers then if you have a problem with that.

You can't argue source material though, mainline universe or not.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

I think part of the way it works...and really, it only works if Batman and Superman are meeting for the first time...is that Superman would greatly underestimate Batman. As in not even consider him to be any kind of a threat whatsoever, and could walk into a fight with him early on not taking him serious at all...only to get surprised. That's the only way the "caught off guard" idea works for me.

 

[Nathan]

TBH, I still don't buy it... Writers keep writing silly things into superman vs batman.. they should just not have them fight at all.. at least not physically..

Just watch even Spiderman.. even the slightest movement of air around him, and he's alert..

That's because Spidey's Spider-sense and reflexes are based on that of a Spiders. Who react to the tiniest air fluctuations with the hairs on their body. Superman doesn't work that way.

don't forget, these are Super Humans, they also have super reflex, and they are super alert.. Remember, Superman heard Zod threatening his mom from miles away (even when he's not trying to hear it.. he's just super aware of his surroundings at all times)...

How in the world would someone like that be 'caught off guard'..

Imagine this... you're aware of your surroundings a million times/sec... and then you see someone (say batman), moving at snail pace, coming closer to you, menacing, about to pounce on you.. and to you, a whole 'hour' have passed before he even comes close to throwing you... in all that time, you play 'taken by surprise?'

Yeah, I don't think Superman works like that. If everyone appeared to him, moving slow like a snail, then he'd himself be a blur to everyone. Or he'd have to really slow down 24/7, to match his speed with all the slow people around him.

Yes, he's got Super reflexes. But I think he always has to kind of get into that Supermode. He doesn't view the world in slowmotion all the time. But he can speed up his perception, if he so desires.

Because that is not in his character. Superman just doesn't hit humans, unless they've got some pretty incredible armour.

Fine, then just pick him up and throw him into a wall. Or does he suddenly not do that anymore either?

 

[Redwolf]

No it can't be a fair fight. In fact I hope there is no Superman vs Batman fight. When the two first meet I want the two to be suspicous of each other of course. They don't trust each other because they don't know each other yet.

I don't see Clark suddenly pouncing on Batman at first meeting. If you saw MOS you know Clark won't do that. He didn't pounce on the bullies.

Batman may try something like in Justice League #2. Clark shows Bruce he doesn't stand a chance. He basically tells this guy in the Bat suit to not even bother. So there is no fight. I would like see Bruce save Clark and Clark save Bruce during the film. That way trust builds between the two.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Except that he does.. when it comes to batman, he's constantly trying to fight him.. but always loses... dang!!!

I don't think Superman has ever actually lost a fight has he?

Dark Knight Returns:

Batman has upper hand after Superman is hit with Kryptonite and hundreds of thousands of watts of electricity, Batman fakes his death so fight is over.

HUSH:

Batman uses Kryptonite to weaken Superman a little uses several tools to disorient him, Lois' life is put in danger to end the fight.

Luthor: Man of Steel:

Superman attacks Batman, who is holding Kryptonite, fight is very one-sided toward Superman.

New 52 Justice League:

Superman takes all the weapons from Batman's arsenal, and is still standing, Flash intervenes.

New 52 Batman/Superman:

Young Superman takes a lot of abuse from Batman's toys, is only really effected by the missiles, Superman is teleported away.

I think the best case for a genuine Superman loss is in Red Son.

Fine, then just pick him up and throw him into a wall. Or does he suddenly not do that anymore either?

He does it as often as he "smacks a jap".

 

[Bruce Malone]

It's almost become an iconic image in itself. The Batman right hander.

 

[Nathan]

Batman has bested Superman several times - fact.

Yet he never bested him in the main universe. In fact, he's been nearly beaten to death by Superman.

You can't argue source material though, mainline universe or not.

Yes I can. If it's not properly written, and doesn't follow any sort of internal logic, I'm not gonna acknowledge squat. Like when Marvel had Black Panther put Silver Surfer into an armlock. Or the cross over comics, where Batman successfully managed to kick Hulk into the stomach hard enough, so he was forced to breath in the knock out gas. You know, instead of just breaking every single bone in his foot. I see pages like that, I automatically retcon that stuff.

 

[robot]

That's because Spidey's Spider-sense and reflexes are based on that of a Spiders. Who react to the tiniest air fluctuations with the hairs on their body. Superman doesn't work that way.

And I am saying that Superman would have 'Super Sense'.. which would be superior to spidey sense... and yes, it does work the whole time.. he even says it in SR... (he hears millions of people all at once and can comprehend all at once)

You use your sense automatically.. like when you're walking, your periphery senses are working full time.. Supe's periphery senses would include miles and miles around him... and it'lll be automatic...

Yeah, I don't think Superman works like that. If everyone appeared to him, moving slow like a snail, then he'd himself be a blur to everyone. Or he'd have to really slow down 24/7, to match his speed with all the slow people around him.

No it wouldn't... It only would when he decides to 'move at such speeds'.. I am saying his 'senses' would in a way be processing millions of times faster than ours.. ie, he would see any threats a mile away...

If he can't, then he won't be able to avoid bullets for instance.. and in MOS he clearly jump away from bullets fired from the plane... like i said, his senses should be what it is.. just like ours would be what it is...

Yes, he's got Super reflexes. But I think he always has to kind of get into that Supermode. He doesn't view the world in slowmotion all the time. But he can speed up his perception, if he so desires.

It doesn't work that way.. do you 'slow down your senses'?

Your senses are your senses.. it works the way it works.. it's as fast as it should be... no more no less..

 

[D.P.]

Comic book fans are a stubborn lot.

Yet he never bested him in the main universe. In fact, he's been nearly beaten to death by Superman.

This movie is in fact, not within the "main" universe.

Much like Marvel's cinematic universe isn't a beat-by-beat representation of their main 616 universe.

So if Superman is bested on screen once 2015 rolls around, then what?

I see pages like that, I automatically retcon that stuff.

That's pretty much my point. Just because you mentally retcon it for Nathan, doesn't mean it's automatically retconned for every comic book fan alive. Like I said, if Batman is shown to be a superior intellect and/or fighter than Clark on screen, will you automatically mentally retcon it? Tom, Dick, and Harry saw it and thought it was awesome. You can't flash the memory-eraser gadget from MIB on everybody because you don't like what you saw.

Especially when it has been represented on page over and over and over...

It's almost become an iconic image in itself. The Batman right hander.

These don't "count" for a lot of fans, but they do for me. Because even though they didn't happen in the "main" continuity (Which is a joke in DC at this point), they still embody the spirit of the characters. TDKR still resonates with people. Hush still resonates with people whether you like it or not. Red Son was an awesome Elseworlds tale.

You don't agree and that's fine, but you can't write the source material off because it's illogical to you. Mind you, comic books and logic don't mix.

 

[ares834]

It's almost become an iconic image in itself. The Batman right hander.

And yet, in the vast majority of those Batman lost the fight. Red Son and TDKR are the only ones where he was winning, but in TDKR he had decades of prep and help from both Robin and Green Arrow and in Red Son while he is beating Superman he ultimately loses when Wonder Woman breaks free.

 

[ares834]

These don't "count" for a lot of fans, but they do for me. Because even though they didn't happen in the "main" continuity (Which is a joke in DC at this point), they still embody the spirit of the characters. TDKR still resonates with people. Hush still resonates with people whether you like it or not. Red Son was an awesome Elseworlds tale.

You don't agree and that's fine, but you can't write the source material off because it's illogical to you. Mind you, comic books and logic don't mix.

It's not so much that they don't count but rather Batman doesn't really win. People bring up Hush but in it Batman does not win, he is about to be crushed when he manages to talk Supes out of his mind control due to Lois nearly dying.

TDKR: Batman had decades of prep and help from both Green Arrow and Robin. But if you want to count that as a win for Bruce then Red Son counts as a win for Supes as ultimately Superman does win with the help of WW.

Meanwhile, in the many of their battles, Superman demolishes Batman. Just look at his fight against Batman in the first arc of the JL. Heck, a very young and "weak" Superman just recently kicked Batman's ass in Batman/Superman.

 

[The Question]

It's not so much that they don't count but rather Batman doesn't really win. People bring up Hush but in it Batman does not win, he is about to be crushed when he manages to talk Supes out of his mind control due to Lois nearly dying.

TDKR: Batman had decades of prep and help from both Green Arrow and Robin. But if you want to count that as a win for Bruce then Red Son counts as a win for Supes as ultimately Superman does win with the help of WW.

Meanwhile, in the many of their battles, Superman demolishes Batman. Just look at his fight against Batman in the first arc of the JL. Heck, a very young and "weak" Superman just recently kicked Batman's ass in Batman/Superman.

The other thing about TDKR is that the fight took place while Superman was still injured from nearly dying in a nuclear explosion and Batman still only barely won.

 

[StraightSix]

Yea I don't see Batman going toe to toe with Superman in this universe. Rather it be Batman outwitting him and setting traps without ever really facing off face to face until the end.

If they introduce kryptonite or krytonian technology Goyer better write a great storyline there.