World Why a Superman vs Batman fight wouldn't work

[kcjones24]

Now one of the main reasons why people go on and on about how Superman vs Batman would be such a great fight is because of their popularity. Lets face it these two are like the Stallone and Schwarzenegger of the DC universe. Now people have said things to me like "Oh Batman could take Superman he's real smart and he would use kryptonite". And time and time again I've said how the problem with that is in order for the kryptonite to take effect one would have to get close enough to touch Superman. Thats a difficult feat because Superman has superhearing and he can see through things.(as well as many other powers but you all know the rest) Another thing if Batman can't take these people in a fight

1. Bane
2. Spiderman
3. Wolverine
4. Colossus
5. Sabretooth
6. Captain America
7. Cyclops
8. Storm
9. Gambit
10. Venom
11. Omega Red
12. Plastic Man
13. Incredible Hulk
14. Dark Seid
15. Juggernaught
16. Wonder Woman
17. The Flash
18. Lobo
19. Dr. Strange
20. Supergirl
21. Superboy
22. Bizarro
23. Magneto
24. Rogue
25. Iceman
26. The Blob
27. Captain Marvel(DC)
28. Gorilla Grodd
29. Ultra Humanite
30. Parasite
31. Livewire
32. Brainiac
33. Clayface
34. Solomngrundy
35. He-man


He sure as hell can't take Superman one on in a fight. Don't get me wrong Batman is a better martial artist and detective than Superman who knows he could probably take Superman in a game of Jeopardy.

 

[hammy]

The thing that would make it interesting is the very fact that Batman is, just a human. He would have to use cunning and ingenuity, as well as every batgadget in his arsenal. It wouldn't be a test of physical strength on his part, it would be a test of intellect and inventiveness, vs. Superman's superpowers. It would just be interesting to see what he would come up with; how he would approach it.

 

[Andy C.]

I personally thought the fight in Hush was handled very well, with Bats using every bit of his resources to keep Big Blue off-balance, and Superman still right on his heels the entire time.

The real problem with a Superman/Batman fight is that, unless one of them is under mind control or something (again, like in Hush), they wouldn't fight. They know each other too well to go into any confrontation blindly, and what's more, can usually work out whatever differences they'd have without the need for violence.

I don't give a damn how Frank Miller sees it in his Dark Knight books; neither one of them is going to resort to violence against his best (and in Batman's case, only) friend if there's a way around it.

 

[hammy]

The real problem with a Superman/Batman fight is that, unless one of them is under mind control or something (again, like in Hush), they wouldn't fight. They know each other too well to go into any confrontation blindly, and what's more, can usually work out whatever differences they'd have without the need for violence.

I don't give a damn how Frank Miller sees it in his Dark Knight books; neither one of them is going to resort to violence against his best (and in Batman's case, only) friend if there's a way around it.

I agree with this philosophy. I've never wanted to see them fight. It would be too sad.

 

[Abaddon]

 

[Andy C.]

1. Bane
20. Supergirl
33. Clayface
34. Solomngrundy

I know for a fact that Batman has beaten Solomon Grundy (in The Long Halloween), Clayface (in Hush), and Bane (Detective #701). And I'm pretty sure whatever anti-Superman plans Bats would employ he could also use against Supergirl. So really, those could all be taken off that list.

 

[EagleVision]

I'm not game for S vs B either. I'm all about the JLA. Anyway, there is a excellent comic which most know and love called Hush in which Bats goes against Supes with kryptonite. Supes told him should he ever get out of hand to use it if necessary and he had to use it. I love it though, cuz as Bats is punching him, he says at one point (paraphrasing) "I'm using this kryptonite, but my fist feels like it's about to break."

In short a Supes/Bats tag team...hell yes! A Supes versus Bats, eh, I don't think so. Bring on the JLA!

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Now one of the main reasons why people go on and on about how Superman vs Batman would be such a great fight is because of their popularity. Lets face it these two are like the Stallone and Schwarzenegger of the DC universe. Now people have said things to me like "Oh Batman could take Superman he's real smart and he would use kryptonite". And time and time again I've said how the problem with that is in order for the kryptonite to take effect one would have to get close enough to touch Superman. Thats a difficult feat because Superman has superhearing and he can see through things.(as well as many other powers but you all know the rest) Another thing if Batman can't take these people in a fight

1. Bane
2. Spiderman
3. Wolverine
4. Colossus
5. Sabretooth
6. Captain America
7. Cyclops
8. Storm
9. Gambit
10. Venom
11. Omega Red
12. Plastic Man
13. Incredible Hulk
14. Dark Seid
15. Juggernaught
16. Wonder Woman
17. The Flash
18. Lobo
19. Dr. Strange
20. Supergirl
21. Superboy
22. Bizarro
23. Magneto
24. Rogue
25. Iceman
26. The Blob
27. Captain Marvel(DC)
28. Gorilla Grodd
29. Ultra Humanite
30. Parasite
31. Livewire
32. Brainiac
33. Clayface
34. Solomngrundy
35. He-man


He sure as hell can't take Superman one on in a fight. Don't get me wrong Batman is a better martial artist and detective than Superman who knows he could probably take Superman in a game of Jeopardy.

Your biggest mistake on this list is that every one of these guys ,good or bad, would be willing to kill if they had to.Thats what makes a fight with Superman different...Superman is not willing to kill anybody unless they pose a treat to the world.

 

[Andy C.]

Batman's not willing to kill, either. Well, unless it's the Joker.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Batman's not willing to kill, either. Well, unless it's the Joker.

To tell the truth, Batman has killed over the years.

 

[Ultraman Nexus]

I'll tell you exactly why it wouldn't work.

One: Frank Miller doesn't know everything but he likes to think he does.

Two: They're both heroes, and they're not that friggin stupid despite what comic writers try to do for the cheap heat. What, the worlds greatest detective can't deduce that Superman in not his actual enemy? A guy motivated to protect people by the death of his own parents would be so utterly ignorant to what Superman is trying to do? Superman would be so blind to the fact Batman is fighting to save lives as well?

Three: All the prep-time, Kryptonite, darkness, and one-liners in the world doesn't negate the fact that this is a being with super-speed and heat vision among his MANY powers. The idea that Batman would win a physical battle against him is the ultimate in over compensation. Why the **** does Batman have to be able to beat up Superman any way? To validate him as a character? Do Batman fans and writers have to prove him to the world so damn bad that the only way they can do it is by having him destroy other heroes? I also love the double standard. Superman takes flak all the time for being too powerful and unrelatable but if Batman beats everybody and God it's somehow this great victory and seen as totally "realistic".

This isn't to say that I mind some character conflict between the two but ultimately I would much rather see a movie where the two greatest superheroes of all time unite against their common enemy, kicking ass and saving the day as only they can.

 

[hammy]

 

[dr collossus]

Ditto.

 

[Andy C.]

To tell the truth, Batman has killed over the years.

So has Superman, but once the two characters were given regular series, one of the first things imposed on both of them was an absolute no-kill policy. Batman hasn't killed anyone in the comics since 1940, I think (not counting Elseworld stories). Superman's killed a couple of people in the post-Crisis era, though.

Anyway, Ultraman Nexus has the right idea. Both characters are solid enough without having to do some cheap "vs" battle. And Frank Miller's a *****e.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

So has Superman, but once the two characters were given regular series, one of the first things imposed on both of them was an absolute no-kill policy. Batman hasn't killed anyone in the comics since 1940, I think (not counting Elseworld stories). Superman's killed a couple of people in the post-Crisis era, though.

Anyway, Ultraman Nexus has the right idea. Both characters are solid enough without having to do some cheap "vs" battle. And Frank Miller's a *****e.

Batman has killed since the 1940's but by proxy.....for exsample there was a Batman book set after the crissis of the 80's [cant remember the issue now] where Bats graps a bad guy and uses him as a sheild when an other bad guy shoots at him and Robin.And there have been times in stories that werent part of else-worlds but they werent considered part of the mainstream contiuity that he has also killed.One such exsample is Son of the Deamon.

 

[Andy C.]

I never really count the out-of-continuity stuff; those things are out for a reason. I haven't seen issue with the human-shield routine, but it does seem a little out of character for someone like Batman to have to resort to that kinda thing. Then again, if you're talking immediately post-Crisis, a lot of things in DC were kinda wonky character-wise.

Anyway, it still remains that one of the big points of his character (nowadays, anyway) is that he's as dead-set as Superman against killing people, and that's what I was getting at this whole time.

 

[Steve Rogers]

I can't really see them fighting each other. That would not only be stupid, but it would be boring.

However, conflict between Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne, could create interesting drama. Remember folks, Batman and Superman are not the only characters here.

 

[dr collossus]

Why would Batman and Superman fight? It's ridiculous. And besides, Batman never fights any super-powered oponents; he battles them. In a fight he would lose. Simple. But if it's a battle, then he can use his cunning and employ the use of his gadgets and whatnot.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

I never really count the out-of-continuity stuff; those things are out for a reason. I haven't seen issue with the human-shield routine, but it does seem a little out of character for someone like Batman to have to resort to that kinda thing. Then again, if you're talking immediately post-Crisis, a lot of things in DC were kinda wonky character-wise.

Anyway, it still remains that one of the big points of his character (nowadays, anyway) is that he's as dead-set as Superman against killing people, and that's what I was getting at this whole time.

My problem with "out-of-continuity stuff" as you called, is that its all relitive.Some of these stories can eazyly fit into continuity like Son of the Deamon.The stuff that I refuse to count are the stories like Speeding Bullets.But I agree about the way they write him these days.

 

[Andy C.]

Why would Batman and Superman fight? It's ridiculous. And besides, Batman never fights any super-powered oponents; he battles them. In a fight he would lose. Simple. But if it's a battle, then he can use his cunning and employ the use of his gadgets and whatnot.

...and still lose, because he's fighting a guy who can push planets around and move at nearly light-speed. I don't care what plans Batman has up his sleeve; common sense says that unless Bruce has just stockpiled tons of Kryptonite or has Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel on speed-dial, Superman could outdo whatever Batman can throw at him.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

...and still lose, because he's fighting a guy who can push planets around and move at nearly light-speed. I don't care what plans Batman has up his sleeve; common sense says that unless Bruce has just stockpiled tons of Kryptonite or has Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel on speed-dial, Superman could outdo whatever Batman can throw at him.

It maybe common sence but its not in chaacter.On the other hand it is in character for Bats to have stockpiles of Kryptonite on hand and to manipulate both Wonderwoman and Captain Marvel or anyone for that matter to get the job done.

 

[Andy C.]

It's not in character for Superman to actually use his superpowers to win a fight? Tell that to the hundreds of criminals and villains etc. who've gotten their butts handed to them by him before.

 

[dr collossus]

I don't have to tell this to comic book fans, but, Batman will always win, no matter who he is up against. Why? Because in a world where superheroes are real, he has to. It's one of the 'unwritten rules'. Batman will always win because it has to be shown that in a world where super-powered beings are real, the one superhero who is just a normal human can still best any of them, thus to not undermine the value of human achievement.

That's why I use the term battle instead of fight. Batman will never 'fight' Superman.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

I never really count the out-of-continuity stuff; those things are out for a reason. I haven't seen issue with the human-shield routine, but it does seem a little out of character for someone like Batman to have to resort to that kinda thing. Then again, if you're talking immediately post-Crisis, a lot of things in DC were kinda wonky character-wise.

Anyway, it still remains that one of the big points of his character (nowadays, anyway) is that he's as dead-set as Superman against killing people, and that's what I was getting at this whole time.

Where not just talking about just any fight.A fight between these 2 characters would have to be to the death [cue Star Trek fight music]
and that would be the desiding facter.If Batman truly believed that Superman would have to be stoped to save the world he would get the job done even if it ment killing.It would be a dirty fight for sure and I'm sure people will say that he cheated but he would still be the last man standing.

 

[Ultraman Nexus]

I don't have to tell this to comic book fans, but, Batman will always win, no matter who he is up against. Why? Because in a world where superheroes are real, he has to. It's one of the 'unwritten rules'. Batman will always win because it has to be shown that in a world where super-powered beings are real, the one superhero who is just a normal human can still best any of them, thus to not undermine the value of human achievement.

That's why I use the term battle instead of fight. Batman will never 'fight' Superman.

What about the value of human friendship? What about the value of human compassion which is exactly the thing the makes Superman who he is as a result of his own human upbringing and why Batman seeks to protect people from criminals instead of just being content to break the neck of the guy who killed his parents? What about the value of human heroism?

Also if Batman can just beat anybody who is super powered does that not in fact undermine the very human quality you're saying must be preserved? If Batman is indeed the most human of superheroes then the capacity for him to lose must also be taken into account. All the more reason he would find a much better way to solve the problem than just trying to kill a fellow superhero.