Batman vs Superman VS Captain America 3

[Space Ghost]

I've actually seen more Captain America shirts than Batman shirts (honestly) doesn't mean I'm gonna conclude he's as popular as Batman.

I´m not measuring the popularity of a character solely by the number of shirts i see. if that's what you understood, you didn´t read my post. BTW, why do i always have the feeling you don´t read what i write? Your answers always seem a little bit out of place. They don´t take into consideration the things i actually said. That´s weird, dude.

I don´t see more captain shirts than batman shirts. You might see, by coincidence, but i doubt captain actually sells more shirts than Batman.

My mother is manager in a store that sells clothes. It´s a big store. They used to have t-shirts from several superheroes. Cool stuff. Right after a Superman shirt, my favorite is a captain shirt. I have tons from different heroes . The problem is: They´re down to only superman and batman shirts in the last couple of years. They used to have captain, x-men, hulk, iron man, wonder woman and more. Now they have batman and superman, and i don´t even need to tell you why.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

It's quite obvious Thor 3 and Cap 3 have the potential to make a lot more internationally. Cap 2 (will) double the international gross of Cap 1. This is a character that was thought to be handicapped OS. We still don't know what Cap 2 will make domestically.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

I´m not measuring the popularity of a character solely by the number of shirts i see. if that's what you understood, you didn´t read my post. BTW, why do i always have the feeling you don´t read what i write? Your answers always seem a little bit out of place. They don´t take into consideration the things i actually said. That´s weird, dude.

I don´t see more captain shirts than batman shirts. You might see, by coincidence, but i doubt captain actually sells more shirts than Batman.

My mother is manager in a store that sells clothes. It´s a big store. They used to have t-shirts from several superheroes. Cool stuff. Right after a Superman shirt, my favorite is a captain shirt. I have tons from different heroes . The problem is: They´re down to only superman and batman shirts in the last couple of years. They used to have captain, x-men, hulk, iron man, wonder woman and more. Now they have batman and superman, and i don´t even need to tell you why.

Well actually it's your posts that are a little out of place. When we talk about BO and the popularity of characters, you bring up merchandising and comic book popularity and other mediums. So when someone says that they see IM shirts suggesting the popularity of IM is increasing (outside of the movies), you said you don't see as many IM shirts as Batman/Superman shirts. I was simply saying that what you see isn't the most reliable thing. I see more Cap A shirts than Batman shirts but that doesn't mean I think Cap A is more popular or than his shirts sell more.

Correction: You said you've never in your life seen an IM shirt.

 

[Tony Stark]

It doesn't matter what Cap's max potential will be. Both films will hurt each other if they were released together. Marvel had the date first they won't budge, WB is saying they won't budge. One of them is going to move off and I don't think Marvel is going to let WB bully them just because it's Batman and Superman.

 

[Space Ghost]

Well actually it's your posts that are a little out of place. When we talk about BO and the popularity of characters, you bring up merchandising and comic book popularity and other mediums. So when someone says that they see IM shirts suggesting the popularity of IM is increasing (outside of the movies), you said you don't see as many IM shirts as Batman/Superman shirts. I was simply saying that what you see isn't the most reliable thing. I see more Cap A shirts than Batman shirts but that doesn't mean I think Cap A is more popular or than his shirts sell more.

Let´s make a deal: You don´t answer my posts, i don´t answer yours. You don´t understand the context and the reason why i say certain things and i don´t wanna waste my time explaining it to you. It´s easier if we just ignore each other.

 

[jonathancrane]

Releasing both films on the same day is suicidal; WB needs to stop being an ass and select a different date.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

Agreed. Its cannibalistic.

 

[OcStat]

Robert Downey received the recognition he has because he played Iron Man. The actor and the character were mutually beneficial to each other. No one would say Robert didn't help Iron Man to be as prominent as he's become. And no one would say Robert Downey was a huge star before summer '08.

But if it was really just Robert the audience was flocking to see, as Space Ghost says, wouldn't every single one of his films be as big as the Iron Man franchise? Sherlock Holmes, Due Date, etc. I don't remember those hitting breakthrough numbers. It's him playing Iron Man that is the big draw. People don't just want to see him, they want to see him play that character.

 

[Flint Marko]

Robert Downey received the recognition he has because he played Iron Man. The actor and the character were mutually beneficial to each other. No one would say Robert didn't help Iron Man to be as prominent as he's become. And no one would say Robert Downey was a huge star before summer '08.

But if it was really just Robert the audience was flocking to see, as Space Ghost says, wouldn't every single one of his films be as big as the Iron Man franchise? Sherlock Holmes, Due Date, etc. I don't remember those hitting breakthrough numbers. It's him playing Iron Man that is the big draw. People don't just want to see him, they want to see him play that character.

Thank you, well said.
It'd be dumb to say Downeys involvement didn't help, but it'd be even dumber to say it was solely due to him playing that role that made the character as successful as it is.
And space ghost, for the third time, Iron man is pretty popular in several other mediums (coms, animation) so your point is completely moot to begin with.

 

[Marvin]

It's quite obvious Thor 3 and Cap 3 have the potential to make a lot more internationally. Cap 2 (will) double the international gross of Cap 1. This is a character that was thought to be handicapped OS. We still don't know what Cap 2 will make domestically.

Doubling the performance of an under performer doesn't address the question. I mean there's a reason TF2 didn't literally double TF1's gross and it not actually a bad reason.

I'm more interested in where that huge increase landed and why/if it would go even higher? I mean what's it say if the avengers boosted cap2/thor2 don't outperform IM1(relatively speaking and domestically). What will their sequels hold as far as advantage?

It doesn't matter what Cap's max potential will be. Both films will hurt each other if they were released together. Marvel had the date first they won't budge, WB is saying they won't budge. One of them is going to move off and I don't think Marvel is going to let WB bully them just because it's Batman and Superman.

Releasing both films on the same day is suicidal; WB needs to stop being an ass and select a different date.

Always fun to see the more obvious fans come out with it.

The truth is no one actually has/owns dates. Often times different studios open films on the same date for this very reason!
All anyone can do is decide what date on the calender a film is opening. Marvel is opening ant man on the same date as WB's Pan and no one is being called an ass by anyone, again, for this very reason.

The only reason I can see for people to think there is some slight on wb's part lies in the idea that WB isn't releasing counter programming on that date but the same type of film. If this is so, we should take a second to appreciate that WB didn't know which film Marvel was releasing when they claimed the date. The date itself being perhaps the best date of the year(that somehow marvel is entitled to).

Either way, it's pretty funny to see terms like bully and underdog thrown around. Really frames this idea of fan wars into proper perspective.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

Doubling the performance of an under performer doesn't address the question. I mean there's a reason TF2 didn't literally double TF1's gross and it not actually a bad reason.

I'm more interested in where that huge increase landed and why/if it would go even higher? I mean what's it say if the avengers boosted cap2/thor2 don't outperform IM1(relatively speaking and domestically). What will their sequels hold as far as advantage?

Well Cap 2 is on it's way to making more in China than The Avengers. It's performing a lot better than we thought in Asia. It's performing better overseas than the IM movies. I personally think Cap 3 can go even higher OS, who's to say his popularity won't increase after A2? It's increasing after this movie (from what I can see). We (fans) try to be optimistic.

Most people didn't expect Thor 2 and Cap 2 to outperform IM1 domestically. So it's not like it's a shock or anything.

 

[Marvin]

Well Cap 2 is on it's way to making more in China than The Avengers. It's performing a lot better than we thought in Asia. It's performing better overseas than the IM movies. I personally think Cap 3 can go even higher OS, who's to say his popularity won't increase after A2? It's increasing after this movie (from what I can see). We (fans) try to be optimistic.

Most people didn't expect Thor 2 and Cap 2 to outperform IM1 domestically. So it's not like it's a shock or anything.

And why that is, the actual mechanism, is pretty much the topic at hand.

Anyways, with this increase in china and over seas, I would hope it's gross would stand above the slew of the same type. I mean if it's really outdoing avengers over there yet still falls short of IM2 with I assume didn't have that...

I mean the thing about the TF's over seas expansion in the third film is that it yielded an insane amount of money. To expand and yield sub 650 or what not only(and I repeat it's a quesition), motivates the question of what sort of potential are people thinking the next sequels will yield?

Especially in the face of the current landscape of heavy hitters like skyfall and such. For example I'm sure this asm sequel will do gangbusters over seas and the totals will reflect that given the character's ceiling.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

And why that is, the actual mechanism, is pretty much the topic at hand.

Anyways, with this increase in china and over seas, I would hope it's gross would stand above the slew of the same type. I mean if it's really outdoing avengers over there yet still falls short of IM2 with I assume didn't have that...

I mean the thing about the TF's over seas expansion in the third film is that it yielded an insane amount of money. To expand and yield sub 650 or what not only(and I repeat it's a quesition), motivates the question of what sort of potential are people thinking the next sequels will yield?

Especially in the face of the current landscape of heavy hitters like skyfall and such. For example I'm sure this asm sequel will do gangbusters over seas and the totals will reflect that given the character's ceiling.

I understand your point but we don't know Captain America's ceiling. We can only be optimistic given that it's making a lot more than the first movie. I'm not going to start worrying about the Captain's potential just yet.

Out of curiosity if Cap 3 made a total of $750 million WW, would you see that as underperforming?

 

[Space Ghost]

RDJ gives a big boost to several movies he is in. Both SH made over a billion dollars together and didn´t cost that much to make. They were more profitable than the TFA and the Thor movies...imagine that...

I´m not even saying IM wouldn´t be profitable without RDJ. But the profits would probably be closer to what Thor and Cap are making.

Someone mentioned IM is popular in other mediums. I´m not disputing that. But, is he a top 3 character in those mediums like he is on film? Does he overall outperform Batman, Superman and Spider-Man like he does on film? If not...well...if not, it´s difficult to not to attribute a big part of that success to RDJ.

I´m one of those people who like IM mainly because of RDJ. I watch the IM movies and enjoy them, but i wouldn´t waste my time reading IM comics or watching IM cartoons. And trust me, i´ve tried. It´s just not the same thing. The character is just not very interesting to me. But RDJ makes IM tolerable.

 

[Marvin]

I understand your point but we don't know Captain America's ceiling. We can only be optimistic given that it's making a lot more than the first movie. I'm not going to start worrying about the Captain's potential just yet.

Out of curiosity if Cap 3 made a total of $750 million WW, would you see that as underperforming?

I personally don't see anything as under performing. If anything I would see that as the film doing what is expected if not a little less actually. Something that won't be happening if they open on the same date as another big film. Something the current film has very much avoided.

It's also not so much about worrying if a film will do well as a fan, but rather looking at how big it's going to be, and if that's worth 'moving' for. 750mill is def worth avoiding(if only MOS had that foresight). Going head to head with a 600mill film might be worth debating over at the wb office though.

 

[Tony Stark]

Doubling the performance of an under performer doesn't address the question. I mean there's a reason TF2 didn't literally double TF1's gross and it not actually a bad reason.

I'm more interested in where that huge increase landed and why/if it would go even higher? I mean what's it say if the avengers boosted cap2/thor2 don't outperform IM1(relatively speaking and domestically). What will their sequels hold as far as advantage?


Always fun to see the more obvious fans come out with it.

The truth is no one actually has/owns dates. Often times different studios open films on the same date for this very reason!
All anyone can do is decide what date on the calender a film is opening. Marvel is opening ant man on the same date as WB's Pan and no one is being called an ass by anyone, again, for this very reason.

The only reason I can see for people to think there is some slight on wb's part lies in the idea that WB isn't releasing counter programming on that date but the same type of film. If this is so, we should take a second to appreciate that WB didn't know which film Marvel was releasing when they claimed the date. The date itself being perhaps the best date of the year(that somehow marvel is entitled to).

Either way, it's pretty funny to see terms like bully and underdog thrown around. Really frames this idea of fan wars into proper perspective.

WB knew exactly what they were doing when they saw Marvel on that date. They moved Ant Man up when WB pushed out B vs. S.

Yes WB is trying to be a bully, this has always been a PR stunt from their perspective. This goes all the way back to them announcing Justice League the same week that Avengers made news crossing the 1 billion mark to try and steal the headlines.

And please lose the attitude. You're a poster on a comic book site. The more "obvious fans" would be everyone on this site.

 

[Space Ghost]

WB knew exactly what they were doing when they saw Marvel on that date. They moved Ant Man up when WB pushed out B vs. S.

Yes WB is trying to be a bully, this has always been a PR stunt from their perspective. This goes all the way back to them announcing Justice League the same week that Avengers made news crossing the 1 billion mark to try and steal the headlines.

And please lose the attitude. You're a poster on a comic book site. The more "obvious fans" would be everyone on this site.

Lol. It´s the second time in 24 hours that i see someone trying to tell other people how to act. It seems that if we wish to say something less positive about a Marvel film or contradict a Marvel fan, there´s a certain code of conduct we must follow.

 

[Marvin]

WB knew exactly what they were doing when they saw Marvel on that date. They moved Ant Man up when WB pushed out B vs. S.

Yes WB is trying to be a bully, this has always been a PR stunt from their perspective. This goes all the way back to them announcing Justice League the same week that Avengers made news crossing the 1 billion mark to try and steal the headlines.

And please lose the attitude. You're a poster on a comic book site. The more "obvious fans" would be everyone on this site.

No, not all fans on here are so obvious. Some people have no allegiance to either side or are at least, not so 'obvious' about it. As for attitude, that's not what I was doing.

Anyways, you keep throwing around buzz words like bully and steal..I think you are taking this beyond what it is. But to each their own.

And again, they moved ant man to a date wb had 'claimed' for their big mid july release. Why not keep it where it was?
-was marvel not aware that wb had claimed that date?
-does marvel think wb is going to move their less hyped film?
-perhaps marvel thinks there is room enough for both films(geared towards a similar demographic) to flourish.

 

[jmc]

Valid point about the Pan date for Ant-Man. Bit hypocritical for people to be *****ing about WB 'stealing' Marvel's date when Marvel themselves walked into WB turf. At least WB had a movie announced already.

 

[The Batman]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I actually agree with Space Ghost regarding Iron Man's current popularity.

 

[Shikamaru]

Both studios are at fault in different ways. It was stupid of WB to move on that date in the first place, but Marvel isn't anything better by staying. However, that's kinda irrelevant because I still think one of them will move (most likely Marvel).

 

[DA_Champion]

This won't have much of an impact in 2016, but Marvel consistently makes 67% of their gross overseas, which bodes well for their long term potential.

Superman Returns, Green Lantern, TDKT, MoS gross ~55% overseas.

I don't know if the difference is due to Europe or Asia.

 

[Marvin]

This won't have much of an impact in 2016, but Marvel consistently makes 67% of their gross overseas, which bodes well for their long term potential.

Superman Returns, Green Lantern, TDKT, MoS gross ~55% overseas.

I don't know if the difference is due to Europe or Asia.

It's a mixed bag and overall complicated issue.
TDK for example(ignoring that evil asian subplot) simply made so damn much domestically, it would have needed to make a crap ton overseas to match it. At that point in time the markets weren't designed that way, china in particular.

Secondly, an early(before US) and fast roll out helps you get international numbers. A good amount of non marvel films tend to open in japan and china and Brazil etc months after domestic. At which point they've lost the international momentum they would have had otherwise, plus their is surely a pirate issue in some territories.

Another thing to consider is just how much more valuable Domestic money is to a distributor. Particularly in the idea they actually get to keep of all it.

That being said, more and more studios are taking advantage of the new landscape. Both TF4 and Avengers/IM3 are going so far as to film there and co produce. You include DOFP and you see the case of casting famous asian star angle.
WB/DC definitely is lacking in this but it's early yet.

I also think hong kong being the birthplace of hong kong action cinema. Solid choreography goes a long way there.

 

[Flint Marko]

Lol. It´s the second time in 24 hours that i see someone trying to tell other people how to act. It seems that if we wish to say something less positive about a Marvel film or contradict a Marvel fan, there´s a certain code of conduct we must follow.

No one's telling you how to act. It's just that if you complain incessantly and unnecessarily about any subject it becomes grating after a while. People don't generally respond well to overt negativity.
Just a word of advice, if you go somewhere and only go on and on about what you have problems with and what you dislike and are just generally a naysayer (which is what you've been doing) you're not going to receive a super warm welcome.
At this point I'm wasting my breathe because I really don't think you get why people are reacting to you the way you are but whatever, I'm honestly trying to lend you some advice.

 

[Space Ghost]

No one's telling you how to act.

Actually, someone is. Someone told me how i should act. And you´re doing the same thing with Marvin by telling him to lose the attitude.

incessantly and unnecessarily about any subject

Except i don´t complain about any subject. I give my thoughts on certain discussions, like you do.

And btw: How do i know if something is necessary or unnecessary? Who draws the line? You? I´ve seen you criticize certain movies on several occasions. Is that necessary? Yes, it is necessary. It only becomes unnecessary if the movie being criticized is one of those you love.