Ben Affleck or Christian Bale?

[BornVc15]

Bale still. Just taking characterization out of the way, which wasn't even close for me, i got more from Christian just out of Batman Begins alone. The multi dimensional layers of his performance, playing all four aspects of Wayne in that film beautifully ( angry young Bruce, playboy Bruce, Determined real life Bruce, raging monster Batman). The great mix of darkness, anger but selflessness and heroism in his eyes both out of cowl and in. It felt effortless to me, like he wasn't acting, he just was The Batman. Whereas i felt acting in this new interpretation. Good acting but still acting. I never felt completely drawn in. Also the difference between Bruce and Batman wasn't as strong. I always felt that even Keaton felt like Batman more than bruce even outside the suit and so does Ben. But with Christian i felt like i saw two different people. Nothing showed that more to me than his relationship with Lucious in TDK. Very warm and close to him as Bruce during the entire movie, but then he has a scene with him as Batman. Cold, creepy, assertive, controlling. Look at how he stares at him there, how he walks towards him like a predator. It was everything i wanted from a big screen Batman performance. Ben was good, especially with what he had, but Bale is still king for me, like after over 20 years Conroy is still animated king. Batman is at his most human when Bale played him, and that's why he was always my favorite hero. His humanity.

Amazing point about the duality between his scenes with Lucious as Batman and as Bruce.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Nardz937]

First I will say this, BVS sucks and Nolan's first two Batman movies are amazing. Having said that, I think I'm liking Affleck's Batman more than Bale's already. His Batman was actually intimidating and made me feel uneasy. Him and Keaton's Batman are the only ones to deliver that. And Affleck didn't have a terrible voice.

I'm excited to see Affleck's Batman in a solo movie with Snyder having nothing to do with it.

 

[titansupes]

In regard to Batman quitting, most comics show that he would like to, but will not do so as long as crime plagues Gotham.

It is incredibly unrealistic that no crime plagued Gotham just because the Dent Act worked. So when Bruce quit at the end of THE DARK KNIGHT, that did in fact go against most classic and modern versions of the character.

That is not to say Batman would not like to quit in many versions. He simply cannot bring himself to do so.

Again-- normal crime wasn't the problem in Gotham. It was the mob(s) being all powerful, keeping Gotham in an everlasting depression, corrupting police and countless officials, making the innocent people in Gotham afraid and hopeless and "creating new Joe Chill's everyday". That's what makes that Bruce arguably the smartest there's been-- He goes after the mobs themselves. He goes after the root of the problem, and once successful, leaves the now empowered police force and officials to handle the more normalised crime in the city... Leaving no need for Batman.

"No city is without crime. But we are without organised crime, thanks to the noble sacrifice of this great man..."

EDIT: Oh, you got banned.

 

[InJustice]

Again-- normal crime wasn't the problem in Gotham. It was the mob(s) being all powerful, keeping Gotham in an everlasting depression, corrupting police and countless officials, making the innocent people in Gotham afraid and hopeless and "creating new Joe Chill's everyday". That's what makes that Bruce arguably the smartest there's been-- He goes after the mobs themselves. He goes after the root of the problem, and once successful, leaves the now empowered police force and officials to handle the more normalised crime in the city... Leaving no need for Batman.

"No city is without crime. But we are without organised crime, thanks to the noble sacrifice of this great man..."

EDIT: Oh, you got banned.

I was going to write it, but you saved me time.

 

[shauner111]

I prefer Affleck's Batman, more faithful to the comics as a detective, great fighter, creating his own gadgets, better designed suit, Batmobile and Batwing, the voice was less annoying than Bale's, etc. It was the Batman we needed and deserved. And it seems most people love Ben's Batman, haters were wrong again. t:

How? I disagree with this. Im sure Joker or someone else has layed out many examples in this thread as to what Bale's Batman did as a detective. I liked Affleck's detective work but the fact that he couldn't tell that Clark was Superman after their conversation, and his laziness to look into it before they fought, yeah...i don't see how you can look at one movie featuring Ben's Batman and say that his detective work is more accurate than Bale's.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Even Jimmy Kimmel managed to peg Superman's identity before The World's Greatest Detective

 

[Techno Bacon]

I don't like The Dark Knight Trilogy that much, so Affleck all the way for me.

-Flame Shields up-

 

[shauner111]

You dont like the movies so Affleck wins? Right. Care to elaborate? We're talking about performance and characterization, not the movies as a whole.

 

[DKDetective]

How? I disagree with this. Im sure Joker or someone else has layed out many examples in this thread as to what Bale's Batman did as a detective. I liked Affleck's detective work but the fact that he couldn't tell that Clark was Superman after their conversation, and his laziness to look into it before they fought, yeah...i don't see how you can look at one movie featuring Ben's Batman and say that his detective work is more accurate than Bale's.

Bingo. There was some pretty blatant gaps in Batfleck's detective work in this one. Granted, I enjoyed seeing him testing his new toys and engaging in some espionage, but we got to see Bale do similar stuff in Begins in building the Batsuit, just not as hi tech. There were several scenes to show Bruce's intelligence and research. I think Bale gets a bad rep because of his reliance on Lucius, which is ironic because Arkham Batman does much the same thing in Arkham Knight.

 

[Techno Bacon]

You dont like the movies so Affleck wins? Right. Care to elaborate? We're talking about performance and characterization, not the movies as a whole.

I honestly didn't feel like Bale's Batman was actually..Batman. He wasn't that much of a Detective after the first film, his fighting skills were okay at best and overall he just felt like a run of the mill action hero to me.

Bale himself though? Fantastic actor, not saying any of this is his fault, but just like he was with Batman he didn't nail that Playboy Bruce Wayne part to me either. I did feel like he got the actual Bruce Wayne down though.

I have many problems with the Dark Knight Trilogy as a whole that I don't exactly want to discuss here, feel free to PM me if you want to discuss it.

Cheers.

 

[Knight-Tale]

Comparing Bale and Affleck as detectives is funny because to me I remember a big knock on Nolan's Batman was that Bale barely did any detective work throughout the trilogy whereas Batfleck is this awesome mix between James Bond and Rorschach in this movie.

 

[titansupes]

That's always been wrong-- Bale did a bunch of detective work in all the movies, particularly the first two.

 

[The Joker]

That's always been wrong-- Bale did a bunch of detective work in all the movies, particularly the first two.

Yes, indeed there was. Using the marked bills to track the mob's money in the banks. Constructing the sonar machine to track down the Joker. Getting the fingerprint off the shattered bullet. Cross referencing the names in the database with addresses in the vicinity of Loeb's funeral to get Melvin White's address. Surveillance of Crane, Gordon, Rachel, Police radio bands. Discovering Selina Kyle's identity and tracking her down. Forewarning Gordon with the names of Cops with relatives in the hospital that he researched etc.

 

[Baneis8feettall]

Bale is far better actor so he adds a lot to scenes without any boosted badassery like BvS.With all that said, he is done with character.

Now, i'd cast Richard Armitage as Batman any day over Affleck but we have Ben Affleck. He is servicable actor who looks like Bruce Wayne. Good enough for me.

 

[InJustice]

Am I misremembering things? What detective work did Bruce do in BvS?

The only thing I remember is stealing data from infiltrating LexCorp during the party. That's about it.

 

[BatLobster]

For all the talk about how BaleBats wasn't the world's greatest detective and was always getting outsmarted by his baddies...Batfleck was no different in that regard with how easily he was manipulated by Lex into doing his bidding.

 

[Knight-Tale]

The only detective work Bale did in the nolan trilogy was forensic work with the bullet. Everything else is either asking Lucious for help with gadget Y to help him do X or telling someone else they better do Z.
Affleck actually makes his own tech with Alfred which imo bumps him up several rungs over Bale in terms of intelligence but that's the weakness of the Nolan Trilogy Affleck has a lot more fantastical elements that make him seem smarter whereas Bale has to work with the grounded world he lives in.

For all the talk about how BaleBats wasn't the world's greatest detective and was always getting outsmarted by his baddies...Batfleck was no different in that regard with how easily he was manipulated by Lex into doing his bidding.

because Lex isn't way smarter than any of the thugs or villains in the Nolan trilogy?

 

[shauner111]

That's b.s.

 

[InJustice]

The only detective work Bale did in the nolan trilogy was forensic work with the bullet. Everything else is either asking Lucious for help with gadget Y to help him do X or telling someone else they better do Z.
Affleck actually makes his own tech with Alfred which imo bumps him up several rungs over Bale in terms of intelligence but that's the weakness of the Nolan Trilogy Affleck has a lot more fantastical elements that make him seem smarter whereas Bale has to work with the grounded world he lives in.

What about Bruce analyzing fingerprints and realizing that Selina Kyle was wearing someone else's fingerprints? He did a great job going from the fake prints to Selina Kyle using police data. I'm sure there's more.

You do realize gadget creation =! detective work? It's not fair to compare detective work and then suddenly bring up gadget creation.

 

[The Joker]

The only detective work Bale did in the nolan trilogy was forensic work with the bullet. Everything else is either asking Lucious for help with gadget Y to help him do X or telling someone else they better do Z.

Read again; Using the marked bills to track the mob's money in the banks. Constructing the sonar machine to track down the Joker. Getting the fingerprint off the shattered bullet. Cross referencing the names in the database with addresses in the vicinity of Loeb's funeral to get Melvin White's address. Surveillance of Crane, Gordon, Rachel, Police radio bands. Discovering Selina Kyle's identity and tracking her down. Forewarning Gordon with the names of Cops with relatives in the hospital that he researched etc.

Affleck actually makes his own tech with Alfred which imo bumps him up several rungs over Bale in terms of intelligence but that's the weakness of the Nolan Trilogy Affleck has a lot more fantastical elements that make him seem smarter whereas Bale has to work with the grounded world he lives in.

Building tech is not detective work.

 

[titansupes]

Yes, indeed there was. Using the marked bills to track the mob's money in the banks. Constructing the sonar machine to track down the Joker. Getting the fingerprint off the shattered bullet. Cross referencing the names in the database with addresses in the vicinity of Loeb's funeral to get Melvin White's address. Surveillance of Crane, Gordon, Rachel, Police radio bands. Discovering Selina Kyle's identity and tracking her down. Forewarning Gordon with the names of Cops with relatives in the hospital that he researched etc.

And getting the dirt on the crooked Judge, doing surveillance on him and making sure the photos end up in the right hands (Rachel). Tracking down and interrogating Flass, following the drugs to the Narrows and doing surveillance/investigating the apartment/goods.

The only detective work Bale did in the nolan trilogy was forensic work with the bullet. Everything else is either asking Lucious for help with gadget Y to help him do X or telling someone else they better do Z.
Affleck actually makes his own tech with Alfred which imo bumps him up several rungs over Bale in terms of intelligence but that's the weakness of the Nolan Trilogy Affleck has a lot more fantastical elements that make him seem smarter whereas Bale has to work with the grounded world he lives in.



because Lex isn't way smarter than any of the thugs or villains in the Nolan trilogy?

As everybody else has said-- gadget creation (which was very cool) has nothing to do with detective work. At all.

Also... Lex? The guy who created a giant, angry, all-powerful monster with no means of control and almost got killed standing a few meters away from him?

 

[Brother Jack]

Affleck surpassed my expectations. I was never a fan of his casting but after seeing the film I think he did a respectable job. He certainly looked the part and had, for the most part, a great suit. I wasn't a fan of the robot voice though, and I still think the cowl was a little too bulky and the cape too heavy. But those are relatively minor things.

How the character was written is a different matter. I wouldn't have a problem with the killing if there had been a proper arc to it. Where Bruce starts the film lost in his own darkness, crossing the line he swore against, and through his actions with Superman, the supposed living emblem of hope, rediscovers his value of human life. This film tries to do this but the "men are still good" line feels unearned. I didn't get the impression he was going to stop being so flippant with human life, only that he was going to stop branding people, which is held up as the evidence of him going too far but in light of his killing feels inadequate. Seeing Bruce struggle with his own violence and Alfred scold him for it is what I wanted to see. It would have lent so much more weight to the moment when he has Clark at his mercy. To see him choose not to kill when he had the chance, when it even felt right in the moment, would have had a profundity that the Martha connection alone did not have.

 

[BattleAngel]

Am I misremembering things? What detective work did Bruce do in BvS?

The only thing I remember is stealing data from infiltrating LexCorp during the party. That's about it.

He types "white portuguese" into a search engine and figures out it's a boat.



Anyone who has followed my posts over the years knows I was not a TDKT fan, and was looking forward to BatFleck. But BruteFleck was an oaf.

Yeah yeah, "he was the first batman I actually was scared by" - that's because you don't know if the dude is going to kill you or not!

 

[DKDetective]

The only detective work Bale did in the nolan trilogy was forensic work with the bullet. Everything else is either asking Lucious for help with gadget Y to help him do X or telling someone else they better do Z.
Affleck actually makes his own tech with Alfred which imo bumps him up several rungs over Bale in terms of intelligence but that's the weakness of the Nolan Trilogy Affleck has a lot more fantastical elements that make him seem smarter whereas Bale has to work with the grounded world he lives in.



because Lex isn't way smarter than any of the thugs or villains in the Nolan trilogy?

So re-writing the autopilot software on an experimental aircraft doesn't count, eh?

 

[Knight-Tale]

So re-writing the autopilot software on an experimental aircraft doesn't count, eh?

Its absolutely irrelevant to his character as the trilogy was basically over at that point.
Oh Bruce finally did something smart without Lucius' help for once too bad he's not batman anymore -_-


Also yeah I think Bale was a great Bruce Wayne he had the dumb billionaire character down pat but as a complete amalgamation of all aspects of Batman Affleck is it he's the pinnacle. He actually carries himself like someone straight out of the comics while Bale is hampered by the grounded tone of those movies.