Black Widow: The Movie

[Godzilla2000]

Statistically though female centered superhero films have done abysmally at the box office. Electra, Catwoman anyone? Marvel is taking a really huge gamble thinking that Scralet's star power alone will get people to watch this movie. Not saying we should be predicting the decline of Marvel's movie division just yet, but there are just certain risks you do not take based upon hard data. I will be vigilantly waiting to see the results of this movie.

 

[747]

As much as I love the MCU, I wouldn't be all that excited for this movie beforehand. I haven't totally embraced Scarlet's and MCU's Widow yet.

 

[Godzilla2000]

I guess since I'm not a guy or lesbian with an infatuation with Scarlett this is pretty low on my radar in general. Actually I'm pretty burned out when it comes to comic genre movies. There's been way too much over saturation for me to get excited about them anymore. Right now the best movies I'm watching are the ones that are taking place inside my head.

Just thought of this, but if anything should DC want to make a solo Wonder Woman movie they can observe this movie, failure or not, and learn from it, what they got right and what mistakes to avoid at all costs.

 

[Shoppy]

Black Widow is a great character and Scarlett Johansson plays her brilliantly...

...BUT...

...she's already part of the MCU and also she has no real super-powers...

...What is the point of giving her a solo movie?...

- If the villain is of a similar power level it's basically just a generic action-spy movie.

( So power up the villain...?)

- If the villain is high-powered her victory is unrealistic

(So add a super-powered ally...?)

- If she's not the hero of her own movie there's no point, It's just a sub-Avengers team-up.



... Why make a movie that isn't going to contribute much to the big picture, doesn't have a super-powered lead, and takes up a slot that could go to another new property?


If you really think a Black Widow movie is a good idea under those circumstances, you've got more respect for Scarlet Johansson's backside than you have for the Marvel universe as a whole

 

[DrCosmic]

Statistically though female centered superhero films have done abysmally at the box office. Electra, Catwoman anyone? Marvel is taking a really huge gamble thinking that Scralet's star power alone will get people to watch this movie. Not saying we should be predicting the decline of Marvel's movie division just yet, but there are just certain risks you do not take based upon hard data. I will be vigilantly waiting to see the results of this movie.

That's not what Marvel is thinking at all. What makes you say that?

Black Widow is a great character and Scarlett Johansson plays her brilliantly...

...BUT...

...she's already part of the MCU and also she has no real super-powers...

...What is the point of giving her a solo movie?...

- If the villain is of a similar power level it's basically just a generic action-spy movie.

( So power up the villain...?)

- If the villain is high-powered her victory is unrealistic

(So add a super-powered ally...?)

- If she's not the hero of her own movie there's no point, It's just a sub-Avengers team-up.



... Why make a movie that isn't going to contribute much to the big picture, doesn't have a super-powered lead, and takes up a slot that could go to another new property?


If you really think a Black Widow movie is a good idea under those circumstances, you've got more respect for Scarlet Johansson's backside than you have for the Marvel universe as a whole

I think all the victories of superheroes are unrealistic. Iron Man couldn't even beat Killian, to say nothing of getting Widow's help with Whiplash and Hammer and Pepper's help with Stane. A far superior foe is what makes a film great, and all the superheroes go up against villains that are just plain old more powerful than they are, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

As for what a Black Widow movie adds to the MCU, that depends on what direction they're going at the time. If it's something Earthbound, a secret invasion or anything else like that, Widow is perfect to help build that up.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Statistically though female centered superhero films have done abysmally at the box office. Electra, Catwoman anyone? Marvel is taking a really huge gamble thinking that Scralet's star power alone will get people to watch this movie. Not saying we should be predicting the decline of Marvel's movie division just yet, but there are just certain risks you do not take based upon hard data. I will be vigilantly waiting to see the results of this movie.

And they have failed because they were BAD movies. I cant even compare them because we have yet to get a female superhero movie that was made and taken seriously with a good script. But there have been plenty of female action movies that have done great which is basically what BW would be, so they wouldn't be taking that big of a gamble.

 

[Loki882]

How many male superhero movies have bombed, either critically, financially, or both. The answer is, A LOT. And yet you don't see people arguing that audiences won't accept them. It's a double-standard that gets on my nerves. Those movies bombed because they were godawful, not because their protagonist was female.

 

[Loki882]

As for the ridiculous argument that just because BW has no superpowers making a movie would be a bad thing, there's another superhero who has no powers and yet has been hugely successful onscreen. What was his name, oh yes Batman. Heck, Captain America doesn't even really have superpowers, and yet that argument doesn't come up in regards to him.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

I'd totally be down for a super stylish spy movie.

Just think Skyfall but with Black Widow.

My interest level, as always, will depend on the execution and quality of trailers.

(I still think they should recast ScarJo though....Antje Traue anyone?)

Spoiler

 

[jonathancrane]

Recasting is a terrible idea...especially with Traue.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

I guess 'should' isn't the right word. I just meant my personal preference. IMO, the Black Widow character is squandered with ScarJo.

 

[The_Manhunter]

I would not do this movie ahead of Black Panther, Ms. Marvel, Dr. Strange or Hulk 2.

This.

 

[The_Manhunter]

Fixed.

Not on topic, but I love your plan for Phase 3. Not familiar with most of the individual storylines, but the properties you picked to get movies are just

 

[Hypestyle]

there needs to be more marvel characters besides Natasha in this film- supporting characters, villains, etc., and yes, a strategic cameo from an Avengers pal.

 

[Godzilla2000]

That's not what Marvel is thinking at all. What makes you say that?

Maybe I am a little biased here not being too familiar with the character as I read mostly X-men and Spider-man titles (All I knew about Avengers was that Beast was in the group as well as being an X-Men.) but I just don't find Black Widow a very interesting character as presented in the MCU. I think Scarlet is adequate as the deceptively pretty face that can kick butt but not as the killing machine her past seems to indicate that she is. I'd been thinking about this ever since seeing this actress in Man Of Steel but I think Antje Traue would have made a better Black Widow. From what she showed in MOS she can play the emotionless, cold killer or the scarred former assassin with ease ie: her reaction to watching Krypton exploding. With Scarlet I personally just don't find her able to convincingly play a beautifully dangerous person as well as Antje did with Faora. Scarlet's face seems too blank a lot of the time, no dangerous killer look in them at all when she's fighting. She just looks to me like she's just going through the choreographed motions.

All in all I have very little interest in this as a theatrical movie. It may work better as a T.V. spin off though where female superhero characters seem to thrive most.

If this movie is to make any decent profit at all though Marvel should not just rely on Scarlet's Sex symbol status as their main draw. You need to get a serious, committed director who will really push Scarlet to her emotional limit and a supporting cast that can bring out the best in her as an actress. This is what Tom Hiddleston did with her during the interrogation scene on the Helicarrier and what Mark Ruffalo did before hulking out. But the most important thing is a tight script that does not fall into the same cliched pitfall traps as Supergirl, Elektra and Catwoman did.

 

[henzINNIT]

It's not high on my list, but yeah sure. I'd pair her up with Hawkeye though. The pair have an interesting relationship that could be developed upon.

 

[CoherentChaos]

It's not high on my list, but yeah sure. I'd pair her up with Hawkeye though. The pair have an interesting relationship that could be developed upon.

This. Maybe not an origin story, or even Budapest, but at least some sort of event that happens where they're the first responders and quickly become the most invested.

 

[KDM1986]

Only if hawkeye is the co-lead. I'm not interested in just a Widow movie. But if it's a team up with the hawk I'd be interested.

 

[DrCosmic]

Maybe I am a little biased here not being too familiar with the character as I read mostly X-men and Spider-man titles (All I knew about Avengers was that Beast was in the group as well as being an X-Men.) but I just don't find Black Widow a very interesting character as presented in the MCU. I think Scarlet is adequate as the deceptively pretty face that can kick butt but not as the killing machine her past seems to indicate that she is. I'd been thinking about this ever since seeing this actress in Man Of Steel but I think Antje Traue would have made a better Black Widow. From what she showed in MOS she can play the emotionless, cold killer or the scarred former assassin with ease ie: her reaction to watching Krypton exploding. With Scarlet I personally just don't find her able to convincingly play a beautifully dangerous person as well as Antje did with Faora. Scarlet's face seems too blank a lot of the time, no dangerous killer look in them at all when she's fighting. She just looks to me like she's just going through the choreographed motions.

All in all I have very little interest in this as a theatrical movie. It may work better as a T.V. spin off though where female superhero characters seem to thrive most.

If this movie is to make any decent profit at all though Marvel should not just rely on Scarlet's Sex symbol status as their main draw. You need to get a serious, committed director who will really push Scarlet to her emotional limit and a supporting cast that can bring out the best in her as an actress. This is what Tom Hiddleston did with her during the interrogation scene on the Helicarrier and what Mark Ruffalo did before hulking out. But the most important thing is a tight script that does not fall into the same cliched pitfall traps as Supergirl, Elektra and Catwoman did.

Oh, I agree that Marvel shouldn't just rely on Johansen to carry the film, but you said that they were, that's why I was questioning.

 

[Godzilla2000]

Well, Scarlet will be the main draw though with her character being front and center. I just am iffy about her being able to carry an entire movie as the top billed star.

 

[DrCosmic]

Me too, I'd think Marvel would be too, but you said Marvel was thinking Scarlet's star power alone would get people to watch the movie. Why would you say Marvel is thinking that?

 

[KangConquers]

A Black Widow movie is a no brainer to me. Scarlet brings star power to the table, and the character was prominently featured in the $1.5 Billion grossing Avengers. She provides fans with their much desired "female solo film", without requiring an extravagant budget.

Black Widow's powers may not be impressive, but I think the world of political intrigue that she moves through, and her character's own moral ambiguity makes her much more compelling than Ms. Marvel.

 

[Hawkingbird]

How many male superhero movies have bombed, either critically, financially, or both. The answer is, A LOT. And yet you don't see people arguing that audiences won't accept them. It's a double-standard that gets on my nerves. Those movies bombed because they were godawful, not because their protagonist was female.

My thoughts exactly. Far more male led movies in general have bombed than female, and that's because there are very few female led movies (excluding rom-com). The argument is invalid.

 

[DrCosmic]

How many male superhero movies have bombed, either critically, financially, or both. The answer is, A LOT. And yet you don't see people arguing that audiences won't accept them. It's a double-standard that gets on my nerves. Those movies bombed because they were godawful, not because their protagonist was female.

The counter is: how many male superhero movies have made a billion dollars? Some. How many bad male superhero movies have been successful? Some. How many male superhero movies with middling to low talent have been good? Some. Same questions for female? None. How many filmmakers who can make great male superhero characters can make great female superhero characters? Some. How many writers who can write great females can write great males? All of them.

The issue is not that the movies were bad, it's that Hollywood naturally makes bad female-led action movies because of the way Hollywood is designed. In order to make a good one, you need to adapt it from a great story (Hunger Games) or get a director who is gifted and likes female heroes (ala Whedon, Cameron, Tarantino), but who isn't better used on a bigger better property (... who fits this bill?). There are tons of male actors who can carry an action film. Fracking Kevin Costner and Liam Nesson(s) are bonafide action stars. You got the Expendables guys coming back from the 80s. The Rock and Vin Diesel and and and Channing Tatum for crying out loud! And what female actor can carry an action movie? None. Not even Jolie anymore. That's just another one of several challenges male action movies don't have.

The double standard is based on the very real gender bias that Hollywood has that doesn't go away just because you say "Let's make a good movie this time." As though they weren't trying to last time. You have to reverse the damage and deal with the results of gender bias. You can't just close your eyes and think it's going to go away.

 

[Gr0oT]

A Black Widow movie would be a terrible waste of a film, just have her show up on AoS if they need to flesh out her character.

Honestly a proper Deathlok movie would be better than wasting screentime on this, being as that bridge is burnt by the poor adaptation they've done on t.v. I'd say make a Sleepwalker movie, a Darkhawk movie, an Agents of Atlas movie before they waste time on BW.