Bought/Thought FREE COMIC BOOK DAY Edition (SPOILERS)

[TheCorpulent1]

Fractured Fables was all right. It was about half-and-half between chuckle-worthy takes on the fables and groan-inducing bombs. I liked the Red Riding Hood and Rapunzel stories most.

The Irredeemable/Incorruptible issue was fantastic. I was interested in Irredeemable when I first heard about it, but I missed the first issue. I bought #2 through 4 and eventually managed to get a second printing of #1, but I never read them because I was cutting comics at the time and I didn't want to chance getting really into a new series at $4 a pop. So, of course, I read the Irredeemable FCBD issue and fell in love with it, then found #2 through 4 and read those, and now I'm like a crack fiend in need of more. I'll probably pick up #5 and 6 if I can, then get the second trade, which I think was just released, and then pick up the series' individual issues from there.

Incorruptible was good as well, but the concept struck me as weaker than Irredeemable's. It seems a lot likelier for a hero who tries to do his best every day in a horrible world to lose his s*** and become a murderous psychopath than it does for a murderous psychopath to see said ex-hero in action and suddenly reform. But I'll pick up the first trade of that as well and give it more of a chance than just one issue. I did at least like Max Damage as a character.

The Sixth Gun was cool, but that was pretty much a guarantee because it's from Cullen Bunn and Brian Hurtt, the same team behind the utterly fantastic The Damned series. The Sixth Gun is basically a mystical western, which is fun. It makes absolutely no sense at first and seems to just be a bunch of random people doing random stuff, but you start to get an idea of what's going on toward the end of the issue. I'll definitely be picking that up when it's released, but if I'd heard of it some other way besides getting to sample the first issue for free on FCBD, I'd have picked it up anyway--such is my love for these creators.

 

[Phaedrus45]

I think I have only nine more of these free comics to read.

Mouse Guard/Fraggle Rock

This was a nice free comic. Last week's first issue of Fraggle Rock took me down memory lane; and it was nice this free comic didn't just reprint one of the shorter stories in that. The Mouse Guard story was interesting too, especially when you learn why the mice are hunting for all the food.

World Of Aspen 2010

Aspen free comics always suck! This year is no exception, as this is mainly filled with 3 page previews of some of their upcoming titles. Very bad, and just might be the worst of the free comics.

The Tick

If you haven't ever read the first issue of The Tick, here ya go! Personally, I have a few copies of this comic already; but, it's always fun to re-read. (I read The Tick back when those large magazine style comics first came out, and have the whole first collection. Today, The Tick comics aren't that good.)

Yow!

This reprints classic John Stanley comics, like Nancy, Tubby, and Judy Junior. It's nice to see those classic comics, and I really love how the pages look almost exactly like those originals from many years back. Now, it's not my kind of comic...but, I still give it a for giving reader a look back on some popular comics of yesterday.

Iron Man/Nova

Iron Man/Thor was pretty darn good. Sadly, this one isn't. I'm a HUGE Tobin fan; but, who really wants to read about the Red Ghost and his Apes again. Sure, Marvel is promoting the upcoming Iron Man movie; but, they would have been better off just reprinting one of Tobin's better Marvel Adventure Spider-Man comics. With this, I don't see it convincing readers of how I've been saying the Marvel Adventures line of comics have gotten much better since Tobin took over.

 

[El Bastardo]

The Irredeemable/Incorruptible issue was fantastic. I was interested in Irredeemable when I first heard about it, but I missed the first issue. I bought #2 through 4 and eventually managed to get a second printing of #1, but I never read them because I was cutting comics at the time and I didn't want to chance getting really into a new series at $4 a pop. So, of course, I read the Irredeemable FCBD issue and fell in love with it, then found #2 through 4 and read those, and now I'm like a crack fiend in need of more. I'll probably pick up #5 and 6 if I can, then get the second trade, which I think was just released, and then pick up the series' individual issues from there.

Incorruptible was good as well, but the concept struck me as weaker than Irredeemable's. It seems a lot likelier for a hero who tries to do his best every day in a horrible world to lose his s*** and become a murderous psychopath than it does for a murderous psychopath to see said ex-hero in action and suddenly reform. But I'll pick up the first trade of that as well and give it more of a chance than just one issue. I did at least like Max Damage as a character.

These are two of my favorites per month. Incorruptible is actually very good - Max Damage is, as you said, a likable character. And, well, Jailbait is hot. And her name is Jailbait, which is pretty funny. The plot has deepened a bit, but the core juxtaposition is as essentially simple as you made it out to be. It's easy, but it's key, and the why of both their motivations - for lack of a better word - does make sense.

Irredeemable has gotten rather large within its own pages, though, and it's not always for the better. Incorruptible remains rather small.

 

[hippie_hunter]

FREE COMIC BOOK DAY I see as a promotional event day. DC should be trying to hook in people who either haven't read a Superman book in years, or ever, to want to give them a try. As someone who barely reads DC books (I read BOOSTER GOLD, and that's it; I read BLUE BEETLE until they canceled it, and DETECTIVE COMICS during the Dini run until it got lose in crossovers), trying to get me to bite for a pay comic should have been a priority. For me it didn't work. It didn't give me a whole story, it buried me in exposition, and while Zod's rise to power may make a lot of sense, it doesn't if you hadn't have been reading the books. Which I and, judging by Superman's recent sales, many people hadn't.

You need to read more DC dammit!

Marvel's IRON MAN/THOR, while some could claim is a shameless way to milk movie fame, at least gets it right. You don't need to know anything about Thor or Iron Man to get the story, beyond who they are in general (Thor is a godly hero, and Iron Man is a rich guy in armor). You don't need to know what has happened to either in the last 1-4 years. It doesn't end things on a cliffhanger and go, "wanna see the rest? Give us $3!" Marvel assembled A-List talent (Fraction & Romita Jr.) for a free one shot. I was actually impressed. My only quibble was the story offered no real villain, and it gets a little mundane watching Thor & Iron Man smash machines. It's like a one shot that starred Wolverine and Spider-Man, but all they did was fight muggers armed with baseball bats. Beyond that, I was pleased.

Iron Man/Thor was a nice done in one story, but as someone who has bought the entire Superman saga for the past couple of years, it's nice to see it finally culminate into a badass saga.

That...and Ursa's goggles are a little silly. How would she use her heat-vision if she wanted to?

She doesn't use her heat vision. She needs the goggles to see.

Still, though, if you're a hardcore DC fan or long time Superman reader, you probably loved the free teaser and probably think I'm just misinformed. My question is; is it wise to merely preach to the choir for a FCBD give away? It is...if you don't care about attracting new readers.

Attracting new readers in today's day and age is near impossible and the only way there'll be new readers is if you kill a major character like Captain America or put Barack Obama on Amazing Spider-Man

 

[TheCorpulent1]

These are two of my favorites per month. Incorruptible is actually very good - Max Damage is, as you said, a likable character. And, well, Jailbait is hot. And her name is Jailbait, which is pretty funny. The plot has deepened a bit, but the core juxtaposition is as essentially simple as you made it out to be. It's easy, but it's key, and the why of both their motivations - for lack of a better word - does make sense.

Irredeemable has gotten rather large within its own pages, though, and it's not always for the better. Incorruptible remains rather small.

I figured they would expand and go into better detail about their motivations for switching sides. It is Mark Waid, after all. Dude's written some of my favorite runs in superhero comics, so he knows what he's doing. I looked up what the trades cover and I just gotta get Irredeemable vol. 2 and Incorruptible vol. 1, and then I'll try to pick up the remaining issues at the shop.

 

[Dread]

I know it's futile to ask since you never acknowledge this when someone points it out, but Dini's Detective run didn't get lost in crossovers. It had like one tie-in to Countdown and an arc tie-in with RIP, but anyone who read it knows it was in name alone. So, what are you referencing, when did Dini's run get lost in crossovers?

I left when the RA'S AL GHUL Bat-crossover happened. I figured I would return but then after that there was something else, R.I.P., BLACKEST NIGHT, MONDO BUCKS, I can't keep track. Then there were issues without Dini on them and I was buying too many comics to give a fill in a chance. Then all of a sudden I hadn't bought DETECTIVE in half a year, and didn't miss it.

You need to read more DC dammit!

I would if more DC books had:
- A genuine jumping on point; you would be surprised how many #1 issues of DC titles expect you to already have read whatever triggered that #1. DC has long given up on new readers, perhaps sooner than Marvel has. That is either shrewd or suicidal.
- Did not expect any reader to have a Master's Degree in DC Nerdilogica just to make your way through, say, RED LANTERN ROBIN #1.
- A Universe in which I can go through the past of any character without having to see the words, "Pre-Crisis", "Post-Crisis", or "Hypertime".

The only reason I am on BOOSTER GOLD was because it came off of 52, a DC series I actually read. Usually if I am handed two comics at random without knowing the continuity and asked to comprehend them, the Marvel book will come out clearer to me. I actually know a lot more about DC than many non-DC fans, and I am often lost by much of their continuity. It's hard to dive into EITHER of the big two superhero universes if you either have been away a while or never followed them, but DC seems more oppressive. Especially now when they are overdoing their Green Lantern rings and legacy heroes.

That, and in every promotion I read from DC it seems as if the editors are clearly trying to sell to men over 40 like them, which I do not apply. It doesn't matter to them that no one cares about Barry Allen. It doesn't matter to them how many 20-something's they repelled by dumping Rayner for Kyle. It doesn't matter to them that you'd need a 20 page manual just to understand a typical issue of JSA.

Iron Man/Thor was a nice done in one story, but as someone who has bought the entire Superman saga for the past couple of years, it's nice to see it finally culminate into a badass saga.

Like I said, if you're a hardcore Superman or DC fan, WAR OF THE SUPERMEN #0 was fine. But to me, who couldn't tell you the last major thing Superman has done besides not be electric anymore, I got a chapter of a long running story I had been way late to. That's bloody awkward. Imagine being handed the first few pages of Chapt. 14 of a 25 chapter book and then asked whether you want to read the whole book. Um...maybe you should start me in the beginning?

She doesn't use her heat vision. She needs the goggles to see.

Lovely. And see, that is what I mean. I needed to go look online to figure that out, because nothing in the story told me why.

Maybe there's a wonderful reason why Zod is an embraced leader on New Krypton, but the FCBD issue did nothing to tell me what it was. Sure, he summarizes that the humans started first (Superman's father in law, in fact, led the assault), but he acts like such a malicious bastard that it seemed so obvious that he isn't to be trusted. Anyone who chuckles with glee as someone is beaten to death in front of him, obviously, is not the sort who should be trusted to run a pension plan or anything.

Attracting new readers in today's day and age is near impossible and the only way there'll be new readers is if you kill a major character like Captain America or put Barack Obama on Amazing Spider-Man

Now now, that Barack Obama issue of ASM did absolutely nothing to maintain new readers. THAT issue sold a half million copies. The very next one sold right about what normal issues do, 55k-65k.

That said, I do think the one time a comic company should try to lure in new readers is FCBD, which is why it started. That means you need to give the reader some sense of a complete product and not assume much foreknowledge about the property beyond the character's name or so on. Because if DC can't even do that for FCBD, when are they EVER going to do so?

Is there a non-Wildstorm, Non Vertigo mainstream DC title where I can open it up at random without knowing a Blue Lantern from a Batarang and not feel like I am watching a sport I don't know the rules to? If there is, it wasn't WAR OF THE SUPERMEN #0, and that to me was a misstep.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I would if more DC books had:
- A genuine jumping on point; you would be surprised how many #1 issues of DC titles expect you to already have read whatever triggered that #1. DC has long given up on new readers, perhaps sooner than Marvel has. That is either shrewd or suicidal.

Batman & Robin #1 was a pretty damn good jumping on point. Hopefully Wonder Woman #600 and Superman #700 will have good jumping on points as well.

- Did not expect any reader to have a Master's Degree in DC Nerdilogica just to make your way through, say, RED LANTERN ROBIN #1.

I have my Master's Degree in DC Nerdilogica framed

- A Universe in which I can go through the past of any character without having to see the words, "Pre-Crisis", "Post-Crisis", or "Hypertime".

Big deal. You don't need to know about "Pre-Crisis," "Post-Crisis" and whatnot to enjoy the characters.

The only reason I am on BOOSTER GOLD was because it came off of 52, a DC series I actually read. Usually if I am handed two comics at random without knowing the continuity and asked to comprehend them, the Marvel book will come out clearer to me. I actually know a lot more about DC than many non-DC fans, and I am often lost by much of their continuity. It's hard to dive into EITHER of the big two superhero universes if you either have been away a while or never followed them, but DC seems more oppressive. Especially now when they are overdoing their Green Lantern rings and legacy heroes.

That, and in every promotion I read from DC it seems as if the editors are clearly trying to sell to men over 40 like them, which I do not apply. It doesn't matter to them that no one cares about Barry Allen. It doesn't matter to them how many 20-something's they repelled by dumping Rayner for Kyle. It doesn't matter to them that you'd need a 20 page manual just to understand a typical issue of JSA.

You're flat out wrong there.

You can't look at it from the perspective of ******** Kyle Rayner fans and righteously pissed off Wally West fans who post on the Internet. You have to look at it from a business perspective.

Green Lantern under Kyle Rayner was like the Avengers or the current state of the Superman titles and Wonder Woman. A title, that while not in cancellation range, was a rather low selling title. Then in came Geoff Johns and he turned it into DC's highest selling ongoing along with Grant Morrison's Batman books, the exact same thing that Brian Michael Bendis did with the Avengers books.

Consumers do have a voice and they voice their opinions with their dollars and guess what? Consumers are preferring Hal Jordan over Kyle Rayner by a very large margin. And this includes the 20-somethings that you bring up because the 40-somethings that you bring up are not enough to make Hal Jordan's return a massive success. The Kyle fans that you mention are just a very vocal minority opinion because for all the 20-somethings that you mention that were repelled by Hal's return, far more hopped on board with the new direction.

Now take a look Wally West. Now you'll notice my difference in attitude between Kyle and Wally fans. Unlike Kyle fans, Wally fans have the right to be pissed off because of piss-poor editorial decisions drove down sales of Wally's book severely. But can you really blame DC for wanting to revitalize the Flash's sales by just simply repeating the formula that has worked so well for Green Lantern (Answer: Yes, because of DC editorial ruining the Flash franchise to begin with)? And based on the sales of the Flash: Rebirth and Blackest Night: the Flash, the Green Lantern revitalization formula is working on the Flash. So obviously, your statement of "No one cares about Barry Allen" is false.

Things like this all come down to sales, plain and simple. And right now, using Geoff Johns to revamp the Silver Age versions of characters works. They're not repelling consumers with these moves, they're making $$$. Sales are why James Robinson and Gail Simone are being booted off of Superman and Wonder Woman (and yes, I firmly believe that they are being kicked off those books, not willingly stepping down). Sales are why Marvel is focusing so much on the Avengers. Sales. Sales. Sales.

No one at Marvel or DC is going to take the angry rantings of Internet fanboys seriously when their voices don't translate to general trends.

Like I said, if you're a hardcore Superman or DC fan, WAR OF THE SUPERMEN #0 was fine. But to me, who couldn't tell you the last major thing Superman has done besides not be electric anymore, I got a chapter of a long running story I had been way late to. That's bloody awkward. Imagine being handed the first few pages of Chapt. 14 of a 25 chapter book and then asked whether you want to read the whole book. Um...maybe you should start me in the beginning?

You should check out the beginning. I personally have been enjoying the Superman mythos. However, I will admit that my opinion is a minority opinion because the sales of Superman are just unacceptable (Superman should be selling as well as Batman for crying out loud).

Lovely. And see, that is what I mean. I needed to go look online to figure that out, because nothing in the story told me why.

But considering that it's a culmination of all the recent Superman stories, why should they tell you minor details that don't pertain to the story? It's not a done in one story like Iron Man/Thor, it's a continuation. Continuations shouldn't go into details already told.

Maybe there's a wonderful reason why Zod is an embraced leader on New Krypton, but the FCBD issue did nothing to tell me what it was. Sure, he summarizes that the humans started first (Superman's father in law, in fact, led the assault), but he acts like such a malicious bastard that it seemed so obvious that he isn't to be trusted. Anyone who chuckles with glee as someone is beaten to death in front of him, obviously, is not the sort who should be trusted to run a pension plan or anything.

To New Krypton, General Zod is a hero and the malicious side that you see is what he shows behind the scenes to where the general populace doesn't see (sorta like Lex Luthor and Norman Osborn before they were caught).

And the only reason why General Zod is in charge is because the actions of General Sam Lane, killed off the entire leadership of New Krypton save for one. When your entire leadership is killed off, the logical choice to pass the baton of leadership is to the only person in the entire planet with any leadership experience.

That said, I do think the one time a comic company should try to lure in new readers is FCBD, which is why it started. That means you need to give the reader some sense of a complete product and not assume much foreknowledge about the property beyond the character's name or so on. Because if DC can't even do that for FCBD, when are they EVER going to do so?

But FCBD doesn't attract new readers. The only "new" readers I saw at my store were young children of parents who already read comics.

Is there a non-Wildstorm, Non Vertigo mainstream DC title where I can open it up at random without knowing a Blue Lantern from a Batarang and not feel like I am watching a sport I don't know the rules to? If there is, it wasn't WAR OF THE SUPERMEN #0, and that to me was a misstep.

But like I said, why try and attract those who won't come. The only way to expand comic book readership is to expand distribution. Not gimmicks like FCBD.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Hiring Ben Raab to write one of the worst piles of s*** ever and call it a run on Kyle's book doesn't qualify as a "poor editorial decision that drove down sales" on that book? I'm a huge Kyle fan and even I dropped that s*** during Raab's run. The motivation to bring Hal back was simply DiDio and Johns wanting to bring Hal back. That they did that in a commercially successful way is a testament to Johns and Van Sciver's ability to appeal to a wide audience, but don't try to paint sales as the main cause of the switch. The wheels were already in motion to bring Hal back regardless of what kind of sales Kyle could muster post-Raab, as evidenced by the fact that they brought Ron Marz in to tie off Kyle's run as the main GL and end his series immediately after Raab's run ended.

I'm sure the fact that Johns is constantly placing the GL series at the very heart of practically every major DC event for the past several years has nothing to do with its continued success either. The fact is, Marvel or DC can pretty much engineer success in a comic series with ease at this point. Just spring a major event out of it and you've got loads of sales to start with. Then it's just a matter of keeping up that momentum with big-name creators and moderately engaging stories.

 

[CantThinkOfAName]

But FCBD doesn't attract new readers. The only "new" readers I saw at my store were young children of parents who already read comics.


But like I said, why try and attract those who won't come. The only way to expand comic book readership is to expand distribution. Not gimmicks like FCBD.

I saw plenty of new readers at my shop. Well, I don't know if they're new, but a bunch of people I never saw that seemed to not know much about comics filled the store, when usually there is like only 3-4 people in the store. My shop also put out sales on back issues and trades and had promotions for upcoming sales they were gonna do.

I don't know what the success rate of FCBD is, but I'm sure if the retailer tried well enough they could probably get a few new readers.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

My shop had a lot of sales to go along with FCBD too. I bought 3 trades myself because there was a buy 2, get 1 free sale on trades there.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Same with my shop. It gets a surge of sales for back issues and trades, but unfortunately almost none of them stick around past that.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't think any of the FCBD newbs stick around at my shop either. But my shop guy's got a bunch of pretty solid regulars. I spend like $20 or $30 there per week and I'm actually on the lower end of his regular spenders' spectrum.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Yeah, the shops I went into in Tacoma were just PACKED, even as the day went into the mid-afternoon. And, I even would guess those shops might have had their best sale days on FCBD. Of course, the key is having some great sales on their back issues and trades. (I sure don't understand the shops that don't try to promote the event or give extra incentives to those coming in their place.)

Here are some thoughts I had, though, for comic shops to get some sales. You do have to limit your comics, especially in the morning; BUT, I would give people a chance to get them all by having a promotion where if you spend a certain amount (say 50 - 100 bucks), you can get handed one of each free comic.

Also, I think these shops need to reward their regular customers; but, I also understand that these "free comics" actually cost the store some money. (I think I was told 10 cents or something like that.) I think for those who don't want to deal with crowds or simply want to get everything available should be able to help the store out and pay for those they want. Heck, I'd pay a dime for each of those books.

Oh, and I think if you subscribe to a comic, like Superman or Fraggle Rock, you should get the free comics for those put in your box.

 

[CantThinkOfAName]

My comic shop had the sale on back issues on the same day as FCBD, but had the sale on trades starting the next day (although the store guy still gave me the discount on the trades that day since I was a regular). I think having it the next day seemed like a smart idea to get people back. I think they also had like a $10 minimum purchase for the free comics.

Obviously, not everyone's gonna come back, but I'm sure a comic book shop would be happy if it could get like 2 or 3 more regulars. And hell, at th every least they clear up space in the back issue bins.

But, you know, I guess some shops hate FCBD and some shops love it, I guess it just depends on what your goal is and how well you market it.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Hiring Ben Raab to write one of the worst piles of s*** ever and call it a run on Kyle's book doesn't qualify as a "poor editorial decision that drove down sales" on that book? I'm a huge Kyle fan and even I dropped that s*** during Raab's run. The motivation to bring Hal back was simply DiDio and Johns wanting to bring Hal back. That they did that in a commercially successful way is a testament to Johns and Van Sciver's ability to appeal to a wide audience, but don't try to paint sales as the main cause of the switch. The wheels were already in motion to bring Hal back regardless of what kind of sales Kyle could muster post-Raab, as evidenced by the fact that they brought Ron Marz in to tie off Kyle's run as the main GL and end his series immediately after Raab's run ended.

I'm sure the fact that Johns is constantly placing the GL series at the very heart of practically every major DC event for the past several years has nothing to do with its continued success either. The fact is, Marvel or DC can pretty much engineer success in a comic series with ease at this point. Just spring a major event out of it and you've got loads of sales to start with. Then it's just a matter of keeping up that momentum with big-name creators and moderately engaging stories.

Just like Avengers, Green Lantern sales weren't spectacular even before Raab arrived on the book. It was always in the low 40K - 30K range. DC wanted to do better and guess what, Geoff Johns + Hal Jordan worked, regardless of putting it at the heart of the DCU and whatnot.

Bad editorial decisions didn't kill Kyle tenure the way they killed Wally's tenure. Books get bad writers all the time. Name me a single major character that didn't have a bad writer on his/her flagship title? Batman has had them. Superman has had them. Wonder Woman has had them. The Flash has had them. Spider-Man has had them. The X-Men have had them. The Hulk has had them. And Green Lantern is no exception. The desire to massively boost sales is what brought Kyle down, plain and simple. Blaming one bad writer for the end of Kyle's tenure is just silly.

Wally on the other hand was a mess. His book gets cancelled unspectacularly. Then you have Bart's tenure as the Flash that was mediocre for the first half of it's run and when it started getting good it was too late and it turns out DC always intended to make it a 13 issue series and bring back Wally and his original book while lying about the solicitations (which comic book stores apparently don't like). And then you bring on Mark Waid who didn't even want to write the book and end it off with Tom Peyer (while I found his run to be enjoyable, most comic book readers see him as a no namer and just weren't interested).

 

[TheCorpulent1]

All of those other heroes have indeed had bad writers, and yet they weren't replaced. Again, bad sales are not the main reason for these major changes. They're a problem that needs to be solved. The solution in GL's case turned out to be spectacularly enacting a change that DiDio and Johns wanted simply because they're fans of Hal Jordan. Attach that level of spectacle to virtually anything and you're guaranteed sales. Critics and readers alike tend to agree that The Flash: Rebirth was mediocre at best, yet it still sold boatloads of copies, largely on the strength of Johns and Van Sciver's names and the level of hype DC attached to it.

Johns and Hal do work, but I'm inclined to believe that it's much more Johns than Hal, coupled with DC hyping the hell out of the comic and repositioning it to be at the heart of the DC universe. Same with the Avengers. Same with Morrison's Batman stuff right now, wherein the vastly more popular Bruce Wayne was replaced with the vastly less popular Dick Grayson; and DC's actually double-dipping on that one by creating a big spectacle around Bruce Wayne's return now, which I'm sure will sell at or near the top of the charts too. Big names and big events sell comics, not the characters behind the masks.

 

[Hush]

Some Damn good debate going on here, keep it up! *Munches Popcorn*

 

[Phaedrus45]

There would be one exception to the major character having a bad writer idea...Spider-Man. It wasn't the writer's fault the series was bad. Clearly, that MJ being married to Spidey. Since OMD, everything is back on track.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Wait a second....haven't all of those characters been replaced at one time? Spidey had Scarlet Spider for a while..X-Men have been CONSTANTLY replaced, Superman got replaced by 4 different characters after his death, Green Arrow, Captain America....the list goes on and on. Who hasn't been replaced ever? Maybe the Hulk...but, I might be forgetting some moment there, too. Wait! Hulk's currently been replaced, as we haven't seen him in quite a while.

 

[CantThinkOfAName]

Iron Man was replaced by a younger version of himself

 

[hippie_hunter]

All of those other heroes have indeed had bad writers, and yet they weren't replaced. Again, bad sales are not the main reason for these major changes. They're a problem that needs to be solved. The solution in GL's case turned out to be spectacularly enacting a change that DiDio and Johns wanted simply because they're fans of Hal Jordan. Attach that level of spectacle to virtually anything and you're guaranteed sales. Critics and readers alike tend to agree that The Flash: Rebirth was mediocre at best, yet it still sold boatloads of copies, largely on the strength of Johns and Van Sciver's names and the level of hype DC attached to it.

I think what hurt the Flash: Rebirth the most were the ridiculous delays concerning the project. Sometimes delays just really, really, hurt the quality of a story.

Johns and Hal do work, but I'm inclined to believe that it's much more Johns than Hal, coupled with DC hyping the hell out of the comic and repositioning it to be at the heart of the DC universe. Same with the Avengers. Same with Morrison's Batman stuff right now, wherein the vastly more popular Bruce Wayne was replaced with the vastly less popular Dick Grayson; and DC's actually double-dipping on that one by creating a big spectacle around Bruce Wayne's return now, which I'm sure will sell at or near the top of the charts too. Big names and big events sell comics, not the characters behind the masks.

Big names wouldn't be big names if their stories weren't good though. Grant Morrison's Batman & Robin is selling much better than most of his Batman run because Batman & Robin is really, really good. Geoff Johns' Green Lantern is selling really good because the stories themselves are really good. Bendis' Avengers sell good because for the most part they are pretty good (admittedly there are some stinkers in his run). JMS' Thor sold good because the story was good.

Grant Morrison, Ed Brubaker, Geoff Johns, Matt Fraction, Brian Michael Bendis, JMS, and whatnot would not be big names if they weren't well.....good writers.

And big events are awesome. I love big events because most of the time, the main event comic is pretty good (I am loving Siege, Blackest Night, etc.) and events give me the opportunity to check out various titles and characters as a jumping on point. I wouldn't have fallen in love with Deadpool if it weren't for Civil War.

And on further note, Batman & Robin and Green Lantern deserve to be DC's best selling titles because frankly, I find them to be DC's best ongoings (along with Secret Six and Rucka's Detective Comics which is unfortunately coming to an end).

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I agree, the stories have to be good to maintain sales, but that initial burst comes from hooking new readers (i.e. readers who wouldn't normally read that series, not necessarily new-to-comics-entirely readers) with hype and big names. Johns wouldn't have gotten the GL: Rebirth assignment if he hadn't built his reputation slogging through a normal, run-of-the-mill run on The Flash that captured readers' attention, Bendis wouldn't have gotten carte blanche with the Avengers if he hadn't proven himself a big seller on Ultimate Spider-Man (although there's a hype argument for that, as well), etc.

But by the same token, people get those names so ingrained into their brains that it can be tough to sell other comics not by those writers. Quality does not equal sales and we all know it. You yourself rate Secret Six among the best titles DC publishes, yet it sells like ass because it has no hype, a bunch of nobodies as its cast, and it's treated as pretty much a fringe title. It's got a big name in Simone, but it's missing all the other ingredients. Regardless of who's behind the mask, Green Lantern is GREEN LANTERN; it's a name people instantly recognize and are interested in because it's considered part of the core of the DC brand. Batman even more so.

Your appreciation of events and Johns' work is irrelevant. My main point, all the way back at the beginning of this, was that painting the issue of Green Lantern's resurgence as "Johns + Hal sells, Kyle doesn't" is vastly oversimplifying the issue. In fairness, Dread oversimplified it too. It's not that one character or writer automatically sells better than another, it's that DC put its full weight behind Johns and Hal and carefully fostered their success by making them central to event after event, which are proven big sellers. Same with Bendis and the Avengers. If they'd done the same for other takes on those franchises, obviously nobody can say with 100% certainty that they would've succeeded, but they certainly would've stood a better chance than just shifting creators around with little fanfare, which is what Marvel and DC usually do for people who aren't named Bendis, Johns, JMS, et al. and for characters who aren't considered central to the brand.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I agree, the stories have to be good to maintain sales, but that initial burst comes from hooking new readers (i.e. readers who wouldn't normally read that series, not necessarily new-to-comics-entirely readers) with hype and big names. Johns wouldn't have gotten the GL: Rebirth assignment if he hadn't built his reputation slogging through a normal, run-of-the-mill run on The Flash that captured readers' attention, Bendis wouldn't have gotten carte blanche with the Avengers if he hadn't proven himself a big seller on Ultimate Spider-Man (although there's a hype argument for that, as well), etc.

But by the same token, people get those names so ingrained into their brains that it can be tough to sell other comics not by those writers. Quality does not equal sales and we all know it. You yourself rate Secret Six among the best titles DC publishes, yet it sells like ass because it has no hype, a bunch of nobodies as its cast, and it's treated as pretty much a fringe title. It's got a big name in Simone, but it's missing all the other ingredients. Regardless of who's behind the mask, Green Lantern is GREEN LANTERN; it's a name people instantly recognize and are interested in because it's considered part of the core of the DC brand. Batman even more so.

Your appreciation of events and Johns' work is irrelevant. My main point, all the way back at the beginning of this, was that painting the issue of Green Lantern's resurgence as "Johns + Hal sells, Kyle doesn't" is vastly oversimplifying the issue. In fairness, Dread oversimplified it too. It's not that one character or writer automatically sells better than another, it's that DC put its full weight behind Johns and Hal and carefully fostered their success by making them central to event after event, which are proven big sellers. Same with Bendis and the Avengers. If they'd done the same for other takes on those franchises, obviously nobody can say with 100% certainty that they would've succeeded, but they certainly would've stood a better chance than just shifting creators around with little fanfare, which is what Marvel and DC usually do for people who aren't named Bendis, Johns, JMS, et al. and for characters who aren't considered central to the brand.

I never said that Kyle doesn't sell. I just simply said that Johns + Hal sells (which is the obvious reason why they're doing the same thing with the Flash mythos). If Johns took charge of Kyle, it would probably sell just as well. But Johns took a pitch with Hal in the central role and DC went with it in hopes of revitalizing Green Lantern sales. It could have been done with Kyle, but it wasn't. To say that Kyle doesn't sell, is like you said, an overstatement. Hell, I firmly believe that Kyle being a part of the cast of Green Lantern Corps is a reason why people buy the book. But you have to admit, that Green Lantern sales (just like the Avengers) can and should have been selling much better even though they weren't near cancellation range. And you can't blame DC for wanting to find a new direction for the franchise.

My point to Dread is that those 20-somethings that he says are repelled by bringing back Hal over Kyle, really hasn't happened. More people are reading Green Lantern than ever before. Those repelled 20-somethings that he mentions are just a very vocal Internet minority and I will say that probably more 20-somethings are buying the book with Hal than the 20-somethings who bought the book with Kyle. The statement of people being repelled by the return of Hal Jordan and Barry Allen is flat out false.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Fair enough, I wasn't really disputing that. You seemed to be painting a grimmer picture for Kyle's time on the book than I thought it warranted, and I automatically get defensive now that Kyle's the "other" Green Lantern.

 

[Iron Man]

Iron Man was replaced by a younger version of himself