Breaking News: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead! - Part 3

[Yurka]

I sure as hell would even if I had 40 men with me. All it takes is a grenade or a suicide vest or something. Hell, even if you were worried about him having a gun, I wouldn't want to risk a single one of my men getting killed by him. If they gave his chance to surrender even a half second of judgement, that's probably a 100 times longer than they needed to.

Oh I'm not opposing the judgement of a large team of highly trained SEALs at all, I support them 100% as I do this whole operation. But in his bedroom, with which was full of his children and wife, as bad a monster as he was I doubt he would pull a pin on a grenade or detonate a vest that they were worried he might be wearing.

He very well could have resisted when they had the situation under control, or on the way back to the helicopter, so they decided to shoot him and just carry him back.

They probably yelled for him to put his hands up (or show some other form of surrender) and when he didn't, they shot him. I don't see how that would have taken long.

That very well might have been the case, I dont think we'll know the real story any time soon though, if ever.

 

[Paroxysm]

i hate to be one of these Americans who say foreigners dont matter on this subject....but they dont.

Please enlighten us on why that's so?

 

[yoshimura]

you pull up an article from 2007

So? The article is relevant: it's the TSA saying that they are at train stations.

you arent experiencing what I am experiencing...it would be like me trying to prove to you that Canada is just full of Mounties, Hocky Fans and Canadian Bacon because i've seen it or read it somewhere.
Your experiences in Canada over rule what I have read. How can I tell you how Canada is from Florida.....so shouldnt the opposite apply. Why does what you have read and seen on the internet over rule my experiences in America?

C'mon roach, That's a fallacious argument.
Have you been to Iraq, Afghanistan or Libya? Nope, you've only read and seen about it on the internet.
Has a judge experienced the crime? Nope, he's presented with evidence and both sides of a story.

I've provided you with material sourced right from the government.

While Osama has been a planner of 9/11, the blood on his hands and the force he uses against others pales in comparison to the US and Canadian governments. This whole "Osama Bin Laden is Dead" news is theatre and distraction.

 

[Calvin]

i hate to be one of these Americans who say foreigners dont matter on this subject....but they dont.

Ha, I hate to be one of those people too, but I will as well!

Seriously though, it's hard to be really in it when you're on a different continent. When I spent a couple years in France, I tried following news on america, and even though I'm american, it all came across way hazier than when I was actually in america, getting info from not only a wider array of television news, but opinions and sentiment from people around me.

 

[roach]

Oh I'm not opposing the judgement of a large team of highly trained SEALs at all, I support them 100% as I do this whole operation. But in his bedroom, with which was full of his children, as bad a monster as he was I doubt he would pull a pin on a grenade or detonate a vest that they were worried he might be wearing.

He very well could have resisted when they had the situation under control, or on the way back to the helicopter, so they decided to shoot him and just carry him back.

I dont think he'd not kill is wife and kids if it met he could kill more americans

 

[Paradoxium]

That sounds like what I would do. He gave her a straight answer, that he can't tell the attorney general not to do that, and she seemed to keep pressing him to do it. What a b**ch for trying to make such a petty political statement during a 9/11 memorial type of thing.

Anyway, thought this was a neat read for some that might be mixed up on a few of the details the news has been throwing around with a lot of misinformation.

Debunking 4 Myths Around Bin Laden Killing: Torture, Cowering, CIA, and Pakistan's involvement

And how would these unnamed sources know otherwise when it occurred at blacksites? Anyways I am looking into it now.

 

[Matt]

Other than this board, and maybe Fox news, I'm not really seeing any sentiment of people doubting the administration. I think your sample size might be a bit small.

Huffington Post/AOL News

Reuters

The Guardian

Houston Chronicle

All of these credible sources discuss the fact that the administration has given conflicting details.

ABC News also ran an article that I read earlier, but can't find at the moment.

 

[Calvin]

Oh I'm not opposing the judgement of a large team of highly trained SEALs at all, I support them 100% as I do this whole operation. But in his bedroom, with which was full of his children, as bad a monster as he was I doubt he would pull a pin on a grenade or detonate a vest that they were worried he might be wearing.

He very well could have resisted when they had the situation under control, or on the way back to the helicopter, so they decided to shoot him and just carry him back.

Are you ****ting me? You don't think Osama would commit suicide to take a bunch of americans down with him if he were cornered? That like... the whole basis of what their terrorism is!

 

[Anita18]

I think many people here in europe and in middle-east are doubting. We even had these changing stories pointed out in the news.

I frequent a forum that's full of Europeans and I think most of the discussion has been whether torture was used to get the information that eventually led us to him. There hasn't been much over the "was he resisting" stuff.

 

[roach]

Actually I was part of Iraqi Freedom and did 3 additional tours to Iraq....I saw Afghanistan twice before I got out

 

[Calvin]

I clicked the first three links Matt, and they seem to say what the non-conspiracy people have been saying, just talking about the fog of war and how details were foggy coming out initially. I don't see anything about a tide of negative sentiment or conspiracy sentiment. Actually, the second and third ones just talk about the legal ramifications internationally which isn't what we're talking about at all.

 

[yoshimura]

Roach, no offence personally but you aren't willing to listen, so I'm not going to bother continuing.

 

[Calvin]

And how would these unnamed sources know otherwise when it occurred at blacksites? Anyways I am looking into it now.

No idea, just thought it was a neat read, I have no idea what sort of bent Christian Science Monitor has, just had it pop up on Google News for me.

 

[Marx]

UPDATE: PRESIDENT OBAMA WILL MEET WITH BIN LADEN RAID SPECIAL FORCES MEMBERS ON FRIDAY
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/05/bin.laden.main/index.html?hpt=T2

 

[yoshimura]

Are you ****ting me? You don't think Osama would commit suicide to take a bunch of americans down with him if he were cornered? That like... the whole basis of what their terrorism is!

Definition of terrorism: Terrorism the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

Osama and Obama (among others) use people other then themselves to pursue their political aims.

 

[roach]

if you employ terrorist for terrorist purposes...it makes you a terrorist

 

[Matt]

I clicked the first three links Matt, and they seem to say what the non-conspiracy people have been saying, just talking about the fog of war and how details were foggy coming out initially. I don't see anything about a tide of negative sentiment or conspiracy sentiment. Actually, the second and third ones just talk about the legal ramifications internationally which isn't what we're talking about at all.

They discuss the inconsistencies none the less.

No one is saying that there is a horrible conspiracy. All that I am saying is that the administration painted an overly positive story and now that the facts are coming out that contradict said story they are kind of stumbling over their words. Thus my claim that Obama should just give one consistent story. I don't think anything that I am saying is incredibly unreasonable. Look past your need to defend your guy and read what I'm saying.

 

[yoshimura]

if you employ terrorist for terrorist purposes...it makes you a terrorist

Obviously. I'm saying that terrorist leaders like Osama or Obama aren't so dumb as to kill themselves. It's like cult or mafia leaders, they get their enforcers to do the dirty work.

 

[roach]

apparently the quote ability is bugged right now

No need to get testy Yoshi...but I was proving to you that what I know of the subject is based on first hand knowledge...not anything I read on the internet or saw on tv. First hand experience trumps 2nd and third all the time.

 

[roach]

Obviously. I'm saying that terrorist leaders like Osama or Obama aren't so dumb as to kill themselves. It's like cult or mafia leaders, they get their enforcers to do the dirty work.

Our conversation has come to a close. Refering to President Obama as a terrorist is a big no no in my book.

 

[yoshimura]

Our conversation has come to a close.

Cool

Refering to President Obama as a terrorist is a big no no in my book.

Nevertheless, he and any other President fits the definition of a terrorist, because that's their nature.

Peace

 

[Paradoxium]

There is no conspiracy just fictional flourishes, turning out to be not the case.

Obama first has teh Intenze situation room photo. Like out of a Tom Clancy story. Turns out it has a 25 minute delay and cuts halfway through when the good bits occurs. So most of the time they were just dumbfounded and wanted coffee. Or how there is an epic gunfight, when it was very brief and anti-climatic. Then you have other staffers making **** up to make it sound more awesome, except there is already 5 other awesome versions.

The real fog of war is the smoke coming out of the administration's asses.

 

[roach]

Please enlighten us on why that's so?

do you get a vote in our political elections???
I am not saying you shouldnt have an opinion

 

[Anita18]

Nevertheless, he and any other President fits the definition of a terrorist, because that's their nature.

Peace

Talk about overly dramatic.

 

[Calvin]

They discuss the inconsistencies none the less.

No one is saying that there is a horrible conspiracy. All that I am saying is that the administration painted an overly positive story and now that the facts are coming out that contradict said story they are kind of stumbling over their words. Thus my claim that Obama should just give one consistent story. I don't think anything that I am saying is incredibly unreasonable. Look past your need to defend your guy and read what I'm saying.

I see what you're saying, I just think you're blowing it way out of proportion due to your need to criticize. It seems pretty natural to me (and most others) that the 24 Hour news cycle can tend to create a lot of inconsistencies while details are slowly trickling in (as more official briefings were conducted, such as the actual SEALS, of course details are going to become more clear), every news station wants to be on top of the story, so they grab at every little tidbit and try to fill in the gaps, claiming they know the story. It's fun having 24 hour news, but this is one of the downsides.