Breaking News: Osama Bin Laden Is Dead! - Part 3

[Calvin]

I never question the lengths religious fanatics would go...I remember Jim Jones and David Koresh...people who do things in the name of god rarely show restraint

Seriously, people question their own judgement way more than they question their god's. If you're misinterpreting what you think your god wants you to do, no sacrifice is too big and no action is too crazy.

 

[bullets]

Also, I hate to do anything that resembles defending Osama, but just assuming he wouldn't hesitate to kill his wife and kids because he's a terrorist and ALL he wants to do is kill Americans? He's still a human being, capable of basic emotions like fear, survival and quite possibly love. To assume he isn't is just, well, ignorant. He may well have been a monster in that way too, but to just assume it? Sheesh.

He might be dedicated to the cause but we don't now how much and if on that day, lol. However I would of approached that situation with extreme caution. I'm just glad no member of seal team six were harmed during the operation , that would of been horrible if he did have the 'suicide vest' strapped on.

 

[roach]

Judging by Pakistan's seemingly shameful reaction, I'd say it's been more awkward on their part than ours.

I am actually surprised that the world that judges America on this is suspiciously silent on Osama hiding in plain sight in Pakistan

 

[LOBO3315a]

I'd actually be even more afraid of an attack with a room full of kids than if I found him alone. If I opened the door and saw a couple kids run out, and a wife run at me, I gotta be thinking he's using that as a distraction to maybe pull a gun on me while I'm trying not to hurt the kids.

Glad I'm not the only one.

 

[Calvin]

I am actually surprised that the world that judges America on this is suspiciously silent on Osama hiding in plain sight in Pakistan

I dunno, if you base it on this thread, yeah, but it seems like most of the world is looking at Pakistan pretty suspiciously.

 

[Calvin]

Glad I'm not the only one.

That's why I should never own a gun, if I open a door and kids run out, no matter where I am, I'm opening fire =P

 

[Alex The Great]

Plus you could bet the wife and kids have bombs strapped on them. The guy has 15 Wives, you think he would have cared if he lost one?

 

[bullets]

I am actually surprised that the world that judges America on this is suspiciously silent on Osama hiding in plain sight in Pakistan

That's been consistently brought up on newsradio and such. I think we're just waiting to find out their role in this whole situation.

 

[roach]

That's why I should never own a gun, if I open a door and kids run out, no matter where I am, I'm opening fire =P

these guys spend days in whats called the Slaughterhouse. Its a house where they practice breaching and take downs. They hone their perception to the point where they can determine an enemy or friendly in a split second.
They are also trained to look at body language and posture to determine if someone is gonna be a threat or not.
So if these guys say they needed to take him down then thats what needed to happen

 

[Yurka]

I'd actually be even more afraid of an attack with a room full of kids than if I found him alone. If I opened the door and saw a couple kids run out, and a wife run at me, I gotta be thinking he's using that as a distraction to maybe pull a gun on me while I'm trying not to hurt the kids.

Im not disagreeing, and thats probably the reason why he had them staying in his room.

 

[LOBO3315a]

Im not disagreeing, and thats probably the reason why he had them staying in his room.

But someone will try and make it out that he was a family man, etc.

 

[Calvin]

I'll be honest, even if I came into the room, it was empty, and he was laying down naked on the ground with his arms out in surrender while shouting "I surrender!", I would think "this HAS to be a trap" *BLAMMO*.

 

[Yurka]

I probably would too Cal, I have no problems at all with this being a kill mission. What perturbs me is the idea that he was executed rather that shot resisting.

 

[roach]

I probably would too Cal, I have no problems at all with this being a kill mission. What perturbs me is the idea that he was executed rather that shot resisting.

where is that idea coming from?

 

[Calvin]

I probably would too Cal, I have no problems at all with this being a kill mission. What perturbs me is the idea that he was executed rather that shot resisting.

Yeah, but there's not been any official reports that say that's what happened. The closest thing I've heard to that effect is the "report" that Osama's daughter said that. If I recall correctly that report came from the folks in Pakistan who are on the line for letting Osama live there in the first place after getting caught with their pants down.

 

[bullets]

edit

 

[Matt]

I'll be honest, even if I came into the room, it was empty, and he was laying down naked on the ground with his arms out in surrender while shouting "I surrender!", I would think "this HAS to be a trap" *BLAMMO*.

SEALs are trained to follow orders. If they were told to take him alive, they could have taken him alive. Especially since only one of the hostiles was armed. They were told to bring back a body. From the second that they raided the compound, the death of Bin Laden was the only option. I have little doubt that their mission was to kill. Based on the fact that he said that he ordered the mission, I have to think that the order to kill came from the President of the United States. I can understand why it was done. But its becoming obvious now that the SEAL team was sent in to kill Bin Laden.

Obama should just acknowledge that he ordered the SEAL team to kill Bin Laden due to the dangerous nature of the mission. No one but people who will never vote for him anyway would hold it against him. Most would acknowledge that it was a smart move.

Otherwise, he and his team will continue to dance around it, make little slip ups, continue to contradict themselves as new evidence comes to light, and eventually the truth will come out and it will be an embarrassment not only for the administration but for our country as a whole.

 

[Matt]

Yeah, but there's not been any official reports that say that's what happened. The closest thing I've heard to that effect is the "report" that Osama's daughter said that. If I recall correctly that report came from the folks in Pakistan who are on the line for letting Osama live there in the first place after getting caught with their pants down.

According to Reuters, sources who have seen the pictures have confirmed that there was a gun no where near Bin Laden's corpse (or any of the five corpses but one). Its in one of the articles that I posted.

 

[Calvin]

According to Reuters, sources who have seen the pictures have confirmed that there was a gun no where near Bin Laden's corpse (or any of the five corpses but one). Its in one of the articles that I posted.

What? Every single report I've read today, and there have been several, have pointed out the several guns in Osama's room. Even naming what kind of guns.

 

[Kelly]

I disagree...I think "keeping him alive if possible" was a possibility, but the reason he was killed IMO, was not because "that" was the order...

Doesn't matter how few guns going in that they saw, behind EVERY DOOR was a surprise to a certain extent....Bin Laden was within arms reach of an AK-47 and a hand gun....who was to say going into the room to grab him physically wasn't a trap? They knew that going into a situation like this there were MANY unknown variables...therefore their results had to have an "alive or dead" as well....

 

[roach]

According to Reuters, sources who have seen the pictures have confirmed that there was a gun no where near Bin Laden's corpse (or any of the five corpses but one). Its in one of the articles that I posted.

SOP is to remove weapons at the scene...lest one of the people not dead and left behind decides to fight

 

[Matt]

What? Every single report I've read today, and there have been several, have pointed out the several guns in Osama's room.

When I say near the corpse I mean within reaching proximity of it.

Photographs acquired by Reuters and taken about an hour after the assault show three dead men -- not including bin Laden -- lying in pools of blood. No weapons could be seen in the closely cropped images.

My mistake, it does not mention Bin Laden's corpse, but the other three. None the less, all reports (even the official ones) have indicated that Bin Laden was unarmed.

 

[Kelly]

AND all reports now say that within arms reach was an AK-47 and a hand gun....

I again point to my above post...

 

[Calvin]

SEALs are trained to follow orders. If they were told to take him alive, they could have taken him alive. Especially since only one of the hostiles was armed. They were told to bring back a body. From the second that they raided the compound, the death of Bin Laden was the only option. I have little doubt that their mission was to kill. Based on the fact that he said that he ordered the mission, I have to think that the order to kill came from the President of the United States. I can understand why it was done. But its becoming obvious now that the SEAL team was sent in to kill Bin Laden.

Obama should just acknowledge that he ordered the SEAL team to kill Bin Laden due to the dangerous nature of the mission. No one but people who will never vote for him anyway would hold it against him. Most would acknowledge that it was a smart move.

Otherwise, he and his team will continue to dance around it, make little slip ups, continue to contradict themselves as new evidence comes to light, and eventually the truth will come out and it will be an embarrassment not only for the administration but for our country as a whole.

Oh I agree, I hope that's the case, regarding the kill order. I'm just saying that logistically, even if you say that the mission is to capture him if he doesn't pose a threat, that it would essentially be a kill order anyway, because I literally can't think of a scenario where he doesn't pose a threat. And I mean that sincerely.

I don't understand how anyone can see it as problematic that there was no attempt to take him alive (even though the official word is that it was the first option if possible (even though I think that's impossible). I literally see no scenario where it's possible to safely take him alive without risking death or at least injury to the seals.

 

[Calvin]

I disagree...I think "keeping him alive if possible" was a possibility, but the reason he was killed IMO, was not because "that" was the order...

Doesn't matter how few guns going in that they saw, behind EVERY DOOR was a surprise to a certain extent....Bin Laden was within arms reach of an AK-47 and a hand gun....who was to say going into the room to grab him physically wasn't a trap? They knew that going into a situation like this there were MANY unknown variables...therefore their results had to have an "alive or dead" as well....

Exactly, even if the mission is to take him alive if safely possible, I think it's impossible to safely take him alive. If you're willing to sacrifice a few men, sure they could take him alive. But then we're saying we'd rather have a SEAL die than Osama.