Brexit

[Lilbaz]

Faisal Islam, Sky News Journalist, Says Pro-Brexit MP Told Him 'Leave Campaign Don't Have A Plan'
Always nice to read that the people that got us into this know what they were doing.

They are not in government though so will not have a say. Unless boris becomes leader.

 

[Lilbaz]

The fact that after centuries of colonization the British still talk about "glory" is really unsettling.

Sorry but what are you referring to?

 

[Mad Ones]

Sorry but what are you referring to?

comments I keep seeing everywhere justifying this choice.

 

[BestGirl]

Humor me for a second:

If this turns up being a good thing in the long run, then what will all of you shouting over it being a horrible disaster say? Just curious.

I myself don't know too much about all of this or really have a strong opinion, but I never liked the idea of the EU from the start.

I tend to be optimistic about any region of the world that isn't the Middle East so I don't entirely buy into the Brexit doom and gloom that's floating around the internet. The fact that clowns like Trump and Sarah Palin support Brexit does give me pause, though.

 

[DeadPresident]

The fact that after centuries of colonization the British still talk about "glory" is really unsettling.

Almost every nation's pride is built on conquest.

The "greatness" of the USA is built on genocide, this isn't foreign. It's only recently that progress through force has become a frowned on practice.

 

[Mad Ones]

Almost every nation's pride is built on conquest.

The "greatness" of the USA is built on genocide, this isn't foreign. It's only recently that progress through force has become a frowned on practice.

Which is why "make America great again" is disgusting.

 

[DeadPresident]

Which is why "make America great again" is disgusting.

Indeed, but that's what it is. It would be dishonest to suggest all major progress in the world up until very recently didn't occur as a result of war or some kind of aggression.

 

[Sawyer]

"Make America Great Again" = "Put up those walls, because we're not all descendants of immigrants, okay, WE'RE NOT, OKAY?!?"

Similarly...

"I'm tired of this PC agenda" = "I'm bored with the veiled, institutional racism, and I'd really like to say n***** in public without being frowned upon."

 

[Mad Ones]

Indeed, but that's what it is. It would be dishonest to suggest all major progress in the world up until very recently didn't occur as a result of war or some kind of aggression.

Dishonest and yet it's never addressed in a meaningful way. Hence Trump's momentum and Brexit.

 

[DeadPresident]

"Make America Great Again" = "Put up those walls, because we're not all descendants of immigrants, okay, WE'RE NOT, OKAY?!?"

Similarly...

"I'm tired of this PC agenda" = "I'm bored with the veiled, institutional racism, and I'd really like to say n***** in public without being frowned upon."

To be fair the PC agenda, which started out as being considerate and well-intentioned, has been hijacked by regressive leftists who now want to establish what people can and can't say or can and can't think.

There are a lot of people attacking the PC thing because they're bigots, but there are also people who dislike the PC agenda because it doesn't always allow for honesty.

Dishonest and yet it's never addressed in a meaningful way. Hence Trump's momentum and Brexit.

Human beings by nature avoid the things they can't cathartically process. It would take introspection and insight of the most painful kind to actually admit these kinds of things, it will never happen. The easier route is just to isolate even more, which is why the right is on the rise globally.

Whether people want to admit it or not, diversity is unnatural, it's something that must be consciously worked on and addressed, you can't just create a diverse nation and expect everyone to suddenly be tolerant.

 

[The Overlord]

Well here is some more fallout from the Brexit, racist attacks on the rise in UK:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/26/spate-of-racist-attacks-blamed-on-brexit-vote/

 

[DeadPresident]

I don't understand why people don't get the correlation between these things, the average human being in general is not tolerant or particularly keen on cultural plurality. You can't just have a process of globalization that's taken all of a single generation go smoothly when for X thousand years humans have been used to being in completely homogenous societies.

 

[Kelly]

Dishonest and yet it's never addressed in a meaningful way. Hence Trump's momentum and Brexit.

has slowed...

 

[ApophènX]

Whether people want to admit it or not, diversity is unnatural, it's something that must be consciously worked on and addressed, you can't just create a diverse nation and expect everyone to suddenly be tolerant.

That's ********, diversity is the basis of life. We just forgot it when we went isolating ourselves in big cities with mirrors and more humans than trees. Of course we become sick if ourselvs and yes it will not "suddenly" happen, it will take thousands of years to get to something natural, and not egoistic, again. Natural process are ling and this is one. If we wznt to stop intolerznce, differenciation and seperation we have to see the world in a unified way wich is clearly not happening right now, far from it. How interesting that "logic" processing of reality appeared in the last millenias the same time we began isolating in cities, the "objectiv" world view, what a fake.

 

[DeadPresident]

That's ********, diversity is the basis of life. We just forgot it when we went isolating ourselves in big cities with mirrors and more humans than trees. Of course we become sick if ourselvs and yes it will not "suddenly" happen, it will take thousands of years to get to something natural, and not egoistic, again. Natural process are ling and this is one. If we wznt to stop intolerznce, differenciation and seperation we have to see the world in a unified way wich is clearly not happening right now, far from it. How interesting that "logic" processing of reality appeared in the last millenias the same time we began isolating in cities, the "objectiv" world view, what a fake.

I can tell you aren't very intelligent based just on this declarative statement.

I'd argue my case a little more with you, but several millennia of human history and the last decade of growing unrest provides all the facts for me.

Here is a fact for you, observable wherever you look: When resources are scarce, intolerance and prejudice rises - it's human nature.

 

[TheCommissioner]

Human beings by nature avoid the things they can't cathartically process. It would take introspection and insight of the most painful kind to actually admit these kinds of things, it will never happen. The easier route is just to isolate even more, which is why the right is on the rise globally.

Whether people want to admit it or not, diversity is unnatural, it's something that must be consciously worked on and addressed, you can't just create a diverse nation and expect everyone to suddenly be tolerant.

Yes, just because something is hard doesn't mean you stop doing it

Diversity isn't 'unnatural', it just requires everyone to be on equal footing and not treat others like garbage for it to actually work

the problem is certain groups have been on top for so long that sharing their toys is seen as 'unnatural'

 

[ApophènX]

I can tell you aren't very intelligent based just on this declarative statement.

I'd argue my case a little more with you, but several millennia of human history and the last decade of growing unrest provides all the facts for me.

Here is a fact for you, observable wherever you look: When resources are scarce, intolerance and prejudice rises - it's human nature.

Of course there's no denying that. That wasn't even my point. I'm speaking in ten to twenty millenias not two, we went from animistic representation of the world where cutting a tree is sacrilege and an act of madness. This was the start, as we separate ourselves from the world, we separate ourselvs from all the reflections of ourselvs this world is, this enhanced a anthropocentrism and certain way of thinking leading to closing up in cities and rationnal, sequential thinkings. I'm speaking in big lines and out of time, nature is still diversity and family and we forgot that, we saw her as agreessive, in a few thousand millenia everybody will remember.

As for me not being clever, intelligence is a collectiv thing, think of all of us dumbies in the world, still a reflection. Seperating things again.

 

[Kelly]

I can tell you aren't very intelligent based just on this declarative statement.

I'd argue my case a little more with you, but several millennia of human history and the last decade of growing unrest provides all the facts for me.

Here is a fact for you, observable wherever you look: When resources are scarce, intolerance and prejudice rises - it's human nature.

How about you leave the snark out of your posts...

 

[DeadPresident]

Yes, just because something is hard doesn't mean you stop doing it

Diversity isn't 'unnatural', it just requires everyone to be on equal footing and not treat others like garbage for it to actually work

the problem is certain groups have been on top for so long that sharing their toys is seen as 'unnatural'

You're so focused on this politicized discussion of identity groups you don't seem to be reading what I'm typing. Human beings up until the last 100-150 years have never known social diversity like we have it today. Homogeneity has been the only "natural" social environment people have known for thousands of years. Now, the unprecedented norm is that we encounter cultural difference several times a day, and intercultural cohesion is something that people are socialized into, it doesn't just happen.

No, in the strongest sense of the word it is unnatural.

You're politicizing a statement I'm making about humanity in general.

Of course there's no denying that. That wasn't even my point. I'm speaking in ten to twenty millenias not two, we went from animistic representation of the world where cutting a tree is sacrilege and an act of madness. This was the start, as we separate ourselves from the world, we separate ourselvs from all the reflections of ourselvs this world is, this enhanced a anthropocentrism and certain way of thinking leading to closing up in cities and rationnal, sequential thinkings. I'm speaking in big lines and out of time, nature is still diversity and family and we forgot that, we saw her as agreessive, in a few thousand millenia everybody will remember.

As for me not being clever, intelligence is a collectiv thing, think of all of us dumbies in the world, still a reflection. Seperating things again.

Fantastic, while you're spazzing out on peyote and contemplating the blind eternities the rest of humanity is trying to solve problems that will affect us for the next two or three generations instead of mulling over what happens "thousand millennia" from now.

 

[DeadPresident]

How about you leave the snark out of your posts...

Sure

 

[Mad Ones]

I don't understand why people don't get the correlation between these things, the average human being in general is not tolerant or particularly keen on cultural plurality. You can't just have a process of globalization that's taken all of a single generation go smoothly when for X thousand years humans have been used to being in completely homogenous societies.

So this justifies hate crimes? There's no essential part of humanity that's racist, sexist, homophobic etc. We're still haunted by modernity's violence, which was often about the "glory" of the nation. Systemic social forces are constructed, not essential.

 

[ApophènX]

Fantastic, while you're spazzing out on peyote and contemplating the blind eternities the rest of humanity is trying to solve problems that will affect us for the next two or three generations instead of mulling over what happens "thousand millennia" from now.

Again you miss my point, making things out of time is again to feel like a whole, so less seperation. If you can't understand why we have nation with personnality issues you're not going to solve anything, we are cut from the root, we don't relate with what is far in time, nature is far in time for exemple. Some oral tribes have story that has been carried along for 40.000 years, those are roots.If people can't feel like a family they will never stop hurting each other, how do we accept difference beetwen humans? By accepting differences outside humans. Seing ourselves as part of something greater, stop believing human is unique and on his little throne.

We are groot.

 

[DeadPresident]

So this justifies hate crimes? There's no essential part of humanity that's racist, sexist, homophobic etc. We're still haunted by modernity's violence, which was often about the "glory" of the nation. System social forces are constructed, not essential.

Did I say it justified it? It explains it. People need to stop denying reality and actually address the root cause of a situation if they don't like it. I agree with you 100% in terms of diagnosing the problem, but what seems to be most prevalent when things like this pop up is people fretting and discussing at length that something exists and that they don't like it. The solution is to socialize the coming generation properly so they are equipped to deal with cultural plurality.

The essential part of humanity that's racist/sexist/etc isn't about something intrinsic biologically but intrinsic socially - people gravitate towards what they know and are used to. When something new comes along they reject it, as illustrated perfectly by the age distribution of the Leave vs. Remain voters; older generation voted leave and younger generation voted stay. Why? Each was trying to protect what they know.

You're 100% correct that prejudice might not be essential to humanity, but people trying to reproduce what they know and are comfortable with is a human absolute, and that's where prejudice stems from.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

You're so focused on this politicized discussion of identity groups you don't seem to be reading what I'm typing. Human beings up until the last 100-150 years have never known social diversity like we have it today. Homogeneity has been the only "natural" social environment people have known for thousands of years. Now, the unprecedented norm is that we encounter cultural difference several times a day, and intercultural cohesion is something that people are socialized into, it doesn't just happen.

Isn't the problem really that the "homogeneity" isn't being forced on one group from another?

There have always been multiple languages being spoken in trade and society.

I agree, there's always been tribalism in the world but the real push back we see in then last 20 years is that one culture isn't allowing themselves to be fully assimilate by the dominate culture they live in.

Indians can be Indian Americans and not whatever Britain decides to categorize them.
.

 

[jmc]

Not racist, but misguided. I fail to see how the Brexit solves these problems. I think at best the UK may break even in the long run, but the worst case scenario is the UK becomes an economic basket case.

I heard Nigel Farage wants the UK to renegage with the Commonwealth, saying these countries should look to the UK for leadership, but most members of the Commonwealth have moved on and treated it like a social club. India is apparently thinking of leaving the Commonwealth.

I live in Canada and I think the Brexit makes the Commonwealth less appealing. There is no way Canada, New Zealand and Australia can replace unrestricted trade with the UK and the Commonwealth doesn't have the same power it did several decades ago, so I am not sure what Farage expects from it.

Canada has its own issues and is far away from the UK, ditto with New Zealand and Australia. These countries cannot do much to replace the EU trade relationship the UK had.

Lol, tell him thanks but we've had enough of the looking to the UK for leadership. The last time we looked to the UK for leadership about 20,000 Australian and New Zealand troops were killed in a pointless battle in Turkey a hundred years ago. We're good from here.