Brexit

[Anita18]

The average human being knows what they were taught. People are becoming more tolerant of people different from them now, because they grew up that way. I've seen it myself - my cousins weren't tolerant of homosexuality until they became friends with people who are gay, and discovered, "Hey, these folks are just like us."

Yes, people will band together and fight "the other" (whatever that may mean) when resources are scarce, but IMO it won't be done automatically down racial lines anymore.

 

[DeadPresident]

Isn't the problem really that the "homogeneity" isn't being forced on one group from another?

I'm not sure I'm following, how do you mean?

There have always been multiple languages being spoken in trade and society.

For sure, but trading and intermittently interacting with different cultures is a far cry from going to school, working, and learning with multiple different cultures on a daily basis. I think it's one thing for a Pole to trade with a German and then head back to his isolated, homogenous home, than for a Brit to have a German boss, work with multinational peers and buy his food from a Sikh, etc, etc. There's a diversity overload, we're asking everyone to suddenly accept everyone else out of hand. While that's nice in theory, it's not feasible in reality.

People don't mind novel interactions with identity groups they're unfamiliar with, it's when they need to start seeing those identity groups as part of their "home" that the problems arise - especially when coupled with economic (i.e resource) difficulties. People are still animals at the end of the day.

I agree, there's always been tribalism in the world but the real push back we see in then last 20 years is that one culture isn't allowing themselves to be fully assimilate by the dominate culture they live in.

Who are you talking about here? I think you may be focusing on a specific example and in the process erasing others. We're seeing clashes on the basis of every identity category onto each "opposing" one. In regard to religion we're seeing mass Islam and Christianity collide, sexual orientation is a big debate, and then on each continent you have tribalist hives clashing with one another. Within Europe, Asia, Africa and North America there's a flux of in-group and out-group conflict.

Indians can be Indian Americans and not whatever Britain decides to categorize them.
.

Not sure I follow here either?

 

[DeadPresident]

The average human being knows what they were taught. People are becoming more tolerant of people different from them now, because they grew up that way. I've seen it myself - my cousins weren't tolerant of homosexuality until they became friends with people who are gay, and discovered, "Hey, these folks are just like us."

Yes, people will band together and fight "the other" (whatever that may mean) when resources are scarce, but IMO it won't be done automatically down racial lines anymore.

No, just every other identity category people can think of. If it's not racial it'll be ethnic, if it's not ethnic it'll be geographical, if it's not geographical it'll be classist, if it isn't class it'll be intellect, if it isn't intellect it'll be some other trait. People always seek to band together in some kind of group that isolates and identifies an "other".

 

[Marvolo]

You're so focused on this politicized discussion of identity groups you don't seem to be reading what I'm typing. Human beings up until the last 100-150 years have never known social diversity like we have it today. Homogeneity has been the only "natural" social environment people have known for thousands of years. Now, the unprecedented norm is that we encounter cultural difference several times a day, and intercultural cohesion is something that people are socialized into, it doesn't just happen.

No, in the strongest sense of the word it is unnatural.

You're politicizing a statement I'm making about humanity in general.



Fantastic, while you're spazzing out on peyote and contemplating the blind eternities the rest of humanity is trying to solve problems that will affect us for the next two or three generations instead of mulling over what happens "thousand millennia" from now.

I'm not sure that is true. Ancient empires and civilizations were very diverse due to conquest and osmosis. Hetero and homosexuality, monogamy and polygamy, various cultures, races, ideas, and religions mingled daily in ancient Egypt, Persia, Greece, and Rome. There were other diverse civilizations throughout history too.

 

[DeadPresident]

I'm not sure that is true. Ancient empires and civilizations were very diverse due to conquest and osmosis. Hetero and homosexuality, monogamy and polygamy, various cultures, races, ideas, and religions mingled daily in ancient Egypt, Persia, Greece, and Rome. There were other diverse civilizations throughout history too.

That's true, but I think in each of those instances there was a very clear hierarchy attached to where those specific identities were in relation to one another and in relation to the status quo. The prevalence of the "Western democracy" has given rise to the notion that every identity and trait must be regarded as equal in importance, so that hierarchy is being challenged. I think that's what TCK is referring to, although I suspect he's talking about a very specific group.

Additionally I'd say in the past there were also a very finite number of diversities while today the older generations are being confronted with every kind of diverse identity imaginable. The digital age has made everything accessible to everyone and that cross-pollination of ideas is a culture shock to a lot of people, especially as people adopt these different identities in locations where they've been alien. I'd agree diversity has occurred before, but not at the scale and speed of proliferation as we have today.

IMO, the status quo the world over is being challenged from a power perspective as well as an identity perspective, and the flux and unreasonable amount of frustration and aggression is partially as a result of those facts.

 

[Lilbaz]

Well here is some more fallout from the Brexit, racist attacks on the rise in UK:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/26/spate-of-racist-attacks-blamed-on-brexit-vote/

Sadly these things probably happen all the time. It's being highlighted because of brexit but we have always had racists and idiots in our society just the same as every other society.

That's true, but I think in each of those instances there was a very clear hierarchy attached to where those specific identities were in relation to one another and in relation to the status quo. The prevalence of the "Western democracy" has given rise to the notion that every identity and trait must be regarded as equal in importance, so that hierarchy is being challenged. I think that's what TCK is referring to, although I suspect he's talking about a very specific group.

Additionally I'd say in the past there were also a very finite number of diversities while today the older generations are being confronted with every kind of diverse identity imaginable. The digital age has made everything accessible to everyone and that cross-pollination of ideas is a culture shock to a lot of people, especially as people adopt these different identities in locations where they've been alien. I'd agree diversity has occurred before, but not at the scale and speed of proliferation as we have today.

IMO, the status quo the world over is being challenged from a power perspective as well as an identity perspective, and the flux and unreasonable amount of frustration and aggression is partially as a result of those facts.

Inequality, coupled with austerity, coupled with stagnant wages, coupled with rising living costs and a wave of immigration britain hasn't ever seen (even from the angles and saxons), with no planning made with how to deal with the influx has led to this decision. People for years have been saying their is a problem but politicians have ignored them or thought them xenephobic and put economic growth ahead of standard of living.

 

[DeadPresident]

Inequality, coupled with austerity, coupled with stagnant wages, coupled with rising living costs and a wave of immigration britain hasn't ever seen (even from the angles and saxons), with no planning made with how to deal with the influx has led to this decision. People for years have been saying their is a problem but politicians have ignored them or thought them xenephobic and put economic growth ahead of standard of living.

That's a fair summation, the shared experience of a nation and the outcomes always consist of a myriad of variables.

At the end of the day when the chips are down a person's material circumstance and standard of living are their ultimate truths.

 

[ApophènX]

I think we weren't in the heads of our ancestors and most of what we think nowadays is pure projections that is more reflective of our understanding and perception of reality. Most area of research on old cultures are constantly evolving and changing, both mythology or else.

There use to be indian tribes with the most unique and bizarre tradition, lots of different ritual and way of perceiving reality. In fact it is possible the mind of our ancestors where more diverse since they lived in nature wich is way more complex, vast and of intelligent design than human interface and human languages. It is more coherent, it is alive and a different language. For exemples writing was disregarded by most Greek or Indians, most indoeuropean, since it's dead and it keep languages from evolving as fast as the changes in the world. Our society rely only on writing and i think we are really scared of not letting a trace in the world, we are afraid of not being remembered and vanish in the void.

I think before human only had his head and body and used it in many more ways than we do today, i think there was more diversity only it will never be recalled because it didn't leave a trace. Nature can allow a body/mind to move in three dimensional space but we have create minimalistic road of only two ways wich only reflects the division in our minds. It's not that we xan't think straight, it is that we only think straight. We think in a square and thus created square over and over, because we like to puts limit on things, borders. All that imo is really recent.

I think the world is so complex whatever we will say will be our perception and true and i think we always project our perception and thus create our reality, humans have this power but it can be destructive. I think understanding we create our own reality is important, nothing is define, all we experience is our experience. The mind has to be bendable like water, and it is, always moving and reflecting upon reflections. I think we can't resolve or see what is happening right now because our perception is one of our time, things evolve collectivily, it's a collective journey. But i don't think our mind is renewing as it should, as we rely more on matter and so we are more prisoner of time and the change will be longer. When we stop relying on matter will be a big step, we accept living no trace, We accept we are a little part of the cosmos not it's god or whatever. Also there has got to be some work on melting te opposite and go beyond binary thinking.

Rational thinking is limited as it creates one who is right and the other wrong, this is separative and if we want to be unite and accept each other we will have to rely on a new, more abstract thinking and way of connecting to reality.

 

[Orba]

Boris Johnson says the UK will continue to "intensify" cooperation with the EU following its vote to leave the EU.

 

[The Overlord]

Inequality, coupled with austerity, coupled with stagnant wages, coupled with rising living costs and a wave of immigration britain hasn't ever seen (even from the angles and saxons), with no planning made with how to deal with the influx has led to this decision. People for years have been saying their is a problem but politicians have ignored them or thought them xenephobic and put economic growth ahead of standard of living.

But how does the Brexit solve these problems?

Cornwall is going to lose a bunch of money the EU was investing into it. The 350 pounds that was supposed to go to NHS isn't going to happen and now even Nigel Farage said there will be recession (though he said that was unrelated to the Brexit, yeah sure it is).

The problem is the Leave side portrayed the EU like it was the USSR, an undemocratic body that just takes and never gives back anything to the UK and that is just not the case. Cornwall still wants to get that money from the EU, not realizing that voting to leave means you leave any benefits the EU gave out.

I think anyone who thinks Brexit supporters like Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson have the working class interests at heart are naive.

 

[Iceman]

Has Corbyn been asleep during this whole election? Haven't heard a peep out of him until it's over!

 

[Alex Murphy]

The Scottish parliament would consider blocking legislation on Britain’s exit from the European Union if that were necessary to protect Scottish interests, First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said on Sunday.

Scotland, a nation of five million people, voted to stay in the EU by 62 to 38 per cent in a referendum on Thursday, putting it at odds with the United Kingdom as a whole, which voted 52 to 48 per cent in favour of an exit from the bloc, or Brexit.

Under the United Kingdom’s complex arrangements to devolve some powers to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, legislation generated in London to give effect to the vote to leave the EU would have to gain consent from the three devolved parliaments.

Scotland could veto Brexit laws, Nicola Sturgeon warns

The number of signatories to a petition calling for a new EU referendum continues to rise, despite an expert saying it has no chance of reversing the decision.

The petition has been signed more than three million times but Britain’s foremost elections expert said it will not have any effect.

Professor John Curtice, whose exit poll was the only one to predict the Conservatives would win last year’s general election, said the referendum was so divisive within mainstream political parties and their supporters that it would be unlikely to form a campaigning issue for some time - let alone spark another public vote.

Petition urging second EU vote gains almost 3 million signatures

Freed from the shackles of the European Union, Britain’s economy would prosper and its security would increase. Britain would “take back control” of immigration, reducing the number of arrivals. And it would be able to spend about 350 million pounds, or about $470 million, a week more on health care instead of sending the money to Brussels.

Before Thursday’s referendum on the country’s membership in the 28-nation bloc, campaigners for British withdrawal, known as Brexit, tossed out promises of a better future while dismissing concerns raised by a host of scholars and experts as “Project Fear.”

But that was before they won.

Having Won, Some ‘Brexit’ Campaigners Begin Backpedaling

The world, Britain especially wake up on Friday to the news that the UK in a referendum has decided to leave the European Union.

Results released early on Friday by UK authorities indicated that 17, 410,742 Britons voted to leave EU, while 16,141,241 others voted to remain.

What could be the negative implications of this ‘victory’ over EU?

Brexit: 12 Ways Exiting EU Will Affect UK Negatively

Sinn Féin's call for a border poll on Irish unity in the wake of the Brexit result has been dismissed by Taoiseach Enda Kenny and Fianna Fáil's Micheál Martin.

Mr Kenny said there is "no evidence" that the conditions exist for such a poll and said there are "more serious issues" to deal first.

Meanwhile, Mr Martin branded Gerry Adams's demand for a vote as a "distraction".

Sinn Féin calls for border poll are dismissed as a 'distraction'

They were just jokes at the start of the campaign, throwaway one-liners designed to cause a bit of a fuss on social media.

They came from young Irish professionals in Britain wondering aloud whether they should apply for a UK passport. “Just in case!' accompanied by a smiley face or three.

The mood changed a week or two ago.

How Irish people in the UK woke up to a new reality on Friday

Banks have already begun to take action to shift operations out of the UK, but most of their staff will have to wait several months to find out how many thousands of them will be asked to move to fledgling financial hotspots including Dublin, Paris, and Frankfurt.

Investment banks, who donated heavily to the Remain campaign, have reacted immediately to Britain’s referendum result, with some of London’s largest institutions approaching regulators to secure licences and lining up executives to relocate.

The big US banks - JPMorgan Chase, Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, Citigroup and Morgan Stanley - have large operations employing tens of thousands of people in the UK. They have historically set up their regulated businesses in Britain and then used its right to “passport” into the rest of the 28-member bloc.

Dublin among locations to benefit as banks plan London exit

 

[chamber-music]

The average human being knows what they were taught. People are becoming more tolerant of people different from them now, because they grew up that way. I've seen it myself - my cousins weren't tolerant of homosexuality until they became friends with people who are gay, and discovered, "Hey, these folks are just like us."

Yes, people will band together and fight "the other" (whatever that may mean) when resources are scarce, but IMO it won't be done automatically down racial lines anymore.

Agreed. I've grown up in a diverse area of London and I have seen people of all different races, religions and nationalities live side by side in peace.

I've met people that have spent all their lives in non-diverse places and they often have inbuilt prejudices or bigoted views. People that have never even met a muslim person yet they are islamaphobic.

It is good in general for everyone to be more tolerant. If people were more tolerant then there would be far less conflict and division in the world.

Has Corbyn been asleep during this whole election? Haven't heard a peep out of him until it's over!

Corbyn half assed his campaigning for remain. He didn't seem all that passionate about it.

 

[Lighthouse]

From what I've read, it sounds like Corbyn might be in some trouble with his party too.

 

[The Endless]

Corbyn is weak.

Anyway I haven't got the link but people should see what Daniel Hannan, a British MEP, has to say about the Brexit. He knows first hand what the EU is all about.

 

[Orba]

When you see areas like Cornwall and Wales that have received massive amounts of money from the EU because the UK Government wasn't bothering voting out then saying that they expect to still get the same amount of money you really have to shake your head. They seem to think that the only reason that the UK Government was ignoring them was that the EU was already when its the other way around and the EU was only there because of the failings of the government.

I certainly won't claim the EU is perfect, but when I see that sort of stuff I can't help get reminded a bit of the "What did the Romans ever ever do for us?" scene from 'Life of Brian'.

 

[jr24tw]

Sterling drops. Pounds have reached an all time low and looks to even get worse. Seems only the Yen is getting a win here. And that's why the stalling that GB is doing is bad for everyone (except Asia probably) and is the reason why the EU is pressuring for that official exit announcement. Uncertainty is currently making everything bad for everyone.

 

[Lilbaz]

But how does the Brexit solve these problems?

Cornwall is going to lose a bunch of money the EU was investing into it. The 350 pounds that was supposed to go to NHS isn't going to happen and now even Nigel Farage said there will be recession (though he said that was unrelated to the Brexit, yeah sure it is).

The problem is the Leave side portrayed the EU like it was the USSR, an undemocratic body that just takes and never gives back anything to the UK and that is just not the case. Cornwall still wants to get that money from the EU, not realizing that voting to leave means you leave any benefits the EU gave out.

I think anyone who thinks Brexit supporters like Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson have the working class interests at heart are naive.

I couldn't care if farage and boris were run over by a bus tomorrow. I didn't vote for them or because of them.

 

[Iceman]

Corbyn half assed his campaigning for remain. He didn't seem all that passionate about it.

From what I've read, it sounds like Corbyn might be in some trouble with his party too.

Corbyn is weak.

He sacked his foreign affairs guy Hilary Benn who spoke out against his leadership and 11 members of his shadow cabinet have since resigned. I can't imagine what the leader of the opposition thought was more important to be focusing on during such an important vote.

 

[Iceman]

When you see areas like Cornwall and Wales that have received massive amounts of money from the EU because the UK Government wasn't bothering voting out then saying that they expect to still get the same amount of money you really have to shake your head. They seem to think that the only reason that the UK Government was ignoring them was that the EU was already when its the other way around and the EU was only there because of the failings of the government.

I certainly won't claim the EU is perfect, but when I see that sort of stuff I can't help get reminded a bit of the "What did the Romans ever ever do for us?" scene from 'Life of Brian'.

'Regions with the biggest votes for Leave are also the most economically dependent on the EU'.

https://***********/FT/status/746681886131486720

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Brexit campaign wipes its homepage amid accusations of false promises

http://www.cnet.com/news/brexit-leave-campaign-wipes-website-amid-accusations-of-false-promises/

 

[Marvolo]

Brexit campaign wipes its homepage amid accusations of false promises

http://www.cnet.com/news/brexit-leave-campaign-wipes-website-amid-accusations-of-false-promises/

Silly geese. Google caches pages. They can wipe their page all they want but out there in some google server is a cached version of that page with all their false promises.

 

[Alex Murphy]

British prime minister David Cameron will on Tuesday face European Union leaders for the first time since his country voted to leave the bloc, at a summit in Brussels, as the ramifications of Brexit continue to reverberate around the globe.

Speaking in the House of Commons in his first appearance since announcing he would step down by the autumn, Mr Cameron said he stood by all he had said in the campaign.

He ruled out holding a second referendum to reverse the decision, and announced that a special unit in government had been set up to prepare for negotiations to exit the EU.

David Cameron faces EU leaders amid Brexit fallout

Britain could hold a second referendum on European Union membership if it can broker a deal with the EU to allow full control of its borders, health secretary Jeremy Hunt said in a letter published by the Daily Telegraph newspaper tonight.

Mr Hunt said the prime minister who succeeds David Cameron should be given a chance to negotiate with Brussels before Britain hands in its two-year notice to quit the EU, so they can put any deal on migration to the British public.

"So before setting the clock ticking we need to negotiate a deal and put it to the British people, either in a referendum or through the Conservative manifesto at a fresh general election," Mr Hunt said.

Hunt raises prospect of second EU referendum

Irish shares were trampled on Monday as investors continued to baulk at the impact of Brexit on its closest trading partner -- and analysts downgraded stocks from Ryanair to C&C.

The Iseq slid by 9.9 per cent to 5.296.74 to hit a fresh year-and-a-half low, with the decline outpacing Friday’s 7.7 per cent sell-off. Irish shares fared much worse than the FTSE in London, which dropped 2.6 per cent, and slid at more than twice the pace of the the Stoxx 600, a broad European benchmark, lost 4.1 per cent.

Sterling added to Friday’s record 8.1 per cent drop with another 3.6 per cent slide against the US dollar, to $1.3209 despite an attempt by UK Chanceller of the Exchequer George Osborne to ease concerns by saying he was working closely with the Bank of England and officials in other leading economies.

Irish shares slump at twice the pace of Europe

Stockmarkets plunged again today as the effects of last Thursday’s Brexit vote show to signs of abating.

Ireland’s ISEQ Overall Index was the worst performer in Europe, plunging nearly 10pc as fallout from the UK’s decision to leave the EU continued to reverberate across the globe.

And this evening, ratings agency S&P slashed the UK’s credit rating by two notches and warned it could cut it further.

Ratings agency Standard & Poor's strips the UK of its top credit grade in wake of Brexit vote

Feelings were still raw on both sides of Parliament on Monday as MPs met for the first time since the EU referendum.

Conservatives plotted the first steps in their leadership election, and Labour MPs were in open revolt against leader Jeremy Corbyn. Still, as the smoke from last week’s conflagration began to clear, the blurred outlines of Britain’s likely negotiating position began to emerge.

The Leave campaign was deliberately vague about its hoped-for relationship between Britain and the EU after Brexit.

Dazed Tory and Labour MPs plot next moves post-Brexit

Michael D Higgins has attacked the discourse of fear in the UK's Brexit debate and said he is concerned about the future of the European Union (EU).

Mr Higgins said the UK's Brexit debate was "rather sad" and that all member states must now be concerned about the future of the Union.

The President met Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon in Glasgow to discuss ties between their two countries.

Michael D Higgins concerned about future of EU after Brexit vote

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

But the pound bounced back yesterday so our worries are over.

 

[Kelly]

But the pound bounced back yesterday so our worries are over.

My 403b's and TRS didn't..... thank goodness I have a few more years before retirement.