Bush: U.S. doesn't eavesdrop on phone calls of ordinary Americans

[hippie_hunter]

Forgive me if I don't believe a damn word that comes out of Bush's mouth.

jag

I beleive Iraqi WMDs were the fault of bad intelligence and even I don't beleive Bush on this issue

 

[SuperDude]

You're right in a sense. Average Americans who don't want to bomb anything probably can consider everything to be life as usual. However that does not make it right in my opinion. Sure they are not combing SHH and my phone records with a fine precision, I accept that as the truth. But they could. If I started talking about Bush in an ill light they could know about it.

It is very true and comforting to know America has the world's lowest corruption rating. It is also very comforting to have a system of Government that weeds out what would by most be considered extremists. For this reason I can be confident no "average American" will ever have to worry about this in a safety sense. However its still an ability I'd prefer, and many politicians currently would prefer the President and Government (and NSA) not have.

Yeah, makes sense. There are obvious reasons why this would make some people uncomfortable, but what people who are anti-Bush like to put forth is that the administration is monitoring everyone and one wrong word could send you to a European death camp, and that's just ridiculous. Now, I think the government should be able to do the wiretapping, but I would definately prefer it if there were some governing body to verify probable cause in the situation. Now, when you start discussing this things like security clearance come into play and it gets real confusing. Frankly, I don't have a good solution but I do have faith in the checks and balances in the government. With the way everything is set up in this country, having the demoracy degenerate into a dictatorship would be very difficult and would indeed require the levels of conspiratory collaboration that all the frooty-loops talk about all the time. I find this highly unlikely, however, and most likely the product of too many movies, partisanism, paranoa from the weed, an overactive imagination and a desire to be involved in something important. I.E. the uncovering of an international conspiracy.

 

[jaguarr]

Multiple posts for some reason.

jag

 

[ShadowBoxing]

There are those who feel the system has failed on both of those points in the last 6 years.

jag

Well then they have uniformed opinions. Our Government has the lowest corruption and that is not self-rated (its rated by the United Nations, who probably doesn't like Bush right now). And we don't have extremists either, we don't have a Hitler. And even though the Patriot Act is being looked down upon, IT'S BEING LOOKED DOWN UPON and being questioned by Politicians who have a great degree of power. Furthermore it is not the Alien and Sedition Acts, nor is it Internment. I hate the Patriot Act, it bugs me (to put it lightly). I could give it a full evaluation, I don't have time right now. But it has its strengths and I also recognize it is a part of our Government that these things happen. When facing a new problem like terrorism often the first solution (such as this) is a insufficient one and usually reactionary (see:Internment). However, over time our system has a way of correcting its mistakes through public opinion, new and progressive technologies and methods, and the change of the political tide. I just saw Howard Dean on TV today talking about the wiretapping and he certainly presented a new paradigm which I think the American people will pick up on and run with. However lastly, Government and everything it does is always advantageous to some and disadvantageous to others. The better you are at making policy the better you are at addressing this inherent problem. However, Bush's weakness(es) is policy. He doesn't know how to make them. Seemingly has trouble executing them and furthermore listens to people far too easily. The Presidents like Clinton did not try to give every organization what they wanted. Bush does, he does not do a great job of checking and balancing the powers of Government...or doesn't think far enough ahead to consider the ramifacations of a policy that might disrupt that. As Colbert pointed out he "shoots from the gut". Sometimes his gut tells him to try policies he used in Texas, like "No Child Left Behind"...and in some areas that has worked out very well. In others not so much. His approval ratings dictate as much. Our Government is not corrupt, no more so than it has been and less than it was when it began. It just has a President no one likes (or 60-70% dislike). That reflects poorly on it as a whole. However it will drive public opinion to attempt to elect officials that will not have the same problems as Bush.

 

[SuperDude]

I think the point is the Government of the World's Most Powerful Nation (I wouldn't call them the most powerful government) IS spending millions of dollars and TONS of man hours. And risk? What risk? The American two-party system is a pendulum. Republicans could do anything they wanted and maybe risk 20 years max out of office.

While this kind of ideology is funny to you, not everyone can afford being forced 'the security of being free.' A human being's phone calls, skin rashes, or opinions are only as important as the government makes them. If that skin rash was in the shape of a Star of David in another place in another time that would be something the government would respond to. Right now you can be noticed by this surveillance for speaking ill of Bush.

The only thing that's funny here is your complacency.

I do agree that the two-party system in seriously jacked up (I would prefer a no party system) but I really don't think 'Republicans' as an entirety are going to go out on a limb with the only fear being loss of power for the party. The people within the party have lives and careers to think about and I don't think political parties have reached the point of being secret societies that people hold more important that that. Like I said above, our government is set up and still functioning in a way that keeps things pretty stable.

And merely speaking ill of the President isn't going to draw any flags, it's talking about the President in conjunction with words like bomb, kill and assasinati-

 

[Addendum]

Stars and Stripes of Corruption by Dead Kennedys


Finally got to Washington in the middle of the night
I couldn't wait
I headed straight for the Capitol Mall

My heart began to pound
Yahoo! It really exists
The American International Pictures logo

I looked up at the Capitol Building
Couldn't help but wonder why
I felt like saying "Hello, old friend"

Walked up the hill to touch it
Then I unzipped my pants
And pissed on it when nobody was looking

Like a great eternal Klansman
With his two flashing red eyes
Turn around he's always watching
The Washington monument pricks the sky
With flags like pubic hair ringed 'round the bottom

The symbols of our heritage
Lit up proudly in the night
Somehow fits to see the homeless people
Passed out on the lawn

So this is where it happens
The power games and bribes
All lobbying for a piece of ass

Of the stars and stripes of corruption

Makes me feel so ashamed
To be an American
When we're too stuck up to learn from our mistakes
Trying to start another Viet Nam
Like fiddling while Rome burns at home
The Boss says, "You're laid off. Blame the Japanese"

"America's back," alright
At the game it plays the worst
Strip mining the world like a slave plantation

No wonder others hate us
And the Hitlers we handpick
To bleed their people dry
For our evil empire

The drug we're fed
To make us like it
Is God and country with a band

People we know who should know better
Howl, "America rules. Let's go to war!"
Business scams are what's worth dying for

Are the Soviets our worst enemy?
We're destroying ourselves instead
Who cares about our civil rights
As long as I get paid?

The blind Me-Generation
Doesn't care if life's a lie

so easily used, so proud to enforce

The stars and stripes of corruption
Let's bring it all down!

Tell me who's the real patriots
The Archie Bunker slobs waving flags?
Or the people with the guts to work
For some real change

Rednecks and bombs don't make us strong
We loot the world, yet we can't even feed ourselves
Our real test of strength is caring
Not the toys of war we sell the world

Just carry on, thankful to be farmed like worms
Old glory for a blanket
As you suck on your thumbs

Real freedom scares you
'Cos it means responsibility

So you chicken out and threaten me

Saying, "Love it or leave it"
I'll get beat up if I criticize it
You say you'll fight to the death
To save your worthless flag

If you want a banana republic that bad
Why don't you go move to one
But what can just one of us do?
Against all that money and power
Trying to crush us into roaches?

We don't destroy society in a day
Until we change ourselves first
From the inside out

We can start by not lying so much
And treating other people like dirt
It's easy not to base our lives
On how much we can scam

And you know
It feels good to lift that monkey off our backs

I'm thankful I live in a place
Where I can say the things I do
Without being taken out and shot
So I'm guard against the goons
Trying to take my rights away
We've got to rise above the need for cops and laws

Let kids learn communication
Instead of schools pushing competition
How about more art and theater instead of sports?

People will always do drugs
Let's legalize them
Crime drops when the mob can't price them
Budget's in the red?
Let's tax religion

No one will do it for us
We'll just have to fix ourselves
Honesty ain't all that hard
Just put Rambo back inside your pants
Causing trouble for the system is much more fun

Thank you for the toilet paper
But your flag is meaningless to me
Look around, we're all people
Who needs countries anyway?

Our land I love it too
I think I love it more than you
I care enough to fight

The stars and stripes of corruption
Let's bring it all down!

If we don't try
If we just lie
If we can't find
A way to do it better than this
Who will?

 

[SuperDude]

That's the dumbest song I've ever hea...read.

 

[Backdrifter]

The problem with saying it is ok for them to do it with 'some' people is eventually 'some' people become all people. It is wrong and it will only lead other freedoms being revoked.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

The problem with saying it is ok for them to do it with 'some' people is eventually 'some' people become all people.

More or less my point.

 

[Holly Goodhead]

Ugh, whats up with all these tunnels theyre finding from Mexico to California? Theyre like ****ing rats.
My thought of the moment^

 

[Mr Sparkle]

lol, a 16 year old saying that anything Jello Biafra wrote is dumb

 

[SuperDude]

lol, a 16 year old saying that anything Jello Biafra wrote is dumb

Ah, Mr. Sparkle, so we meet again!

And I'm 19. There is a difference. Namely, the second digit. You typed a 6, it's supposed to be a 9.

The guy's name is Jello? Geez, he's got it bad enough, I should cut him some slack.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Ah, Mr. Sparkle, so we meet again!

And I'm 19. There is a difference. Namely, the second digit. You typed a 6, it's supposed to be a 9.

The guy's name is Jello? Geez, he's got it bad enough, I should cut him some slack.

you're 19?!
well then you should read copious ammounts of noam chomsky and listen to stuff like the dead kennedys.

and Jello Biafra is a stage name I guess.......

 

[SuperDude]

A. I have no idea who Noam Chomsky is.
2. I know I've heard songs by the Dead Kennedys before but I cannot recall exactly what right now.
D. I hope it's a stage name, or maybe it's not English and pronounced differently, or maybe his parents hate him.

EDIT: Did the Dead Kennedys have a song in one of the Tony Hawk Pro Skater games?

 

[Mr Sparkle]

A. I have no idea who Noam Chomsky is.
2. I know I've heard songs by the Dead Kennedys before but I cannot recall exactly what right now.
D. I hope it's a stage name, or maybe it's not English and pronounced differently, or maybe his parents hate him.

EDIT: Did the Dead Kennedys have a song in one of the Tony Hawk Pro Skater games?

well get to know him, there's ton of him on the web.

I'm sure you have heard jello's viva las vegas

he's probably named Francis or something.

and yes....I think it was "police truck"

 

[SuperDude]

Yeah, a quick jump over to Wikipedia revealed that Police Truck was the song and his real name is Eric Reed Boucher. Also, something I found funny:

Songs such as "Kill The Poor", "California Über Alles" and "Police Truck" actually take the lyrical viewpoint of the band's hated right-wing targets. In some cases in their early days the band attracted support from right-wing punks who took the lyrics of "Kill The Poor", etc. at face value, somehow missing the staggering amount of sarcastic nastiness and irony with which the lyrics were presented. The Kennedys wrote a song in response to this development, tellingly titled "Nazi Punks **** Off!".

Haha, funny (though I'm sure Jello would consider me a 'Nazi')

 

[Mr Sparkle]

"California Uber Alles"

I am Governor Jerry Brown
My aura smiles
And never frowns
Soon I will be president...

Carter Power will soon go away
I will be Fuhrer one day
I will command all of you
Your kids will meditate in school
Your kids will meditate in school!

[Chorus:]
California Uber Alles
California Uber Alles
Uber Alles California
Uber Alles California

Zen fascists will control you
100% natural
You will jog for the master race
And always wear the happy face

Close your eyes, can't happen here
Big Bro' on white horse is near
The hippies won't come back you say
Mellow out or you will pay
Mellow out or you will pay!

[Chorus]

Now it is 1984
Knock-knock at your front door
It's the suede/denim secret police
They have come for your uncool niece

Come quietly to the camp
You'd look nice as a drawstring lamp
Don't you worry, it's only a shower
For your clothes here's a pretty flower.

DIE on organic poison gas
Serpent's egg's already hatched
You will croak, you little clown
When you mess with President Brown
When you mess with President Brown

[Chorus]

 

[SuperDude]

Wow. People thought he was being serious? So, they were actually Nazis, not just conservative.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

yup...mostly white supremacist types.

 

[SpideyInATree]

Well, we know Bush is going to hell now. Lying like that and all.

Pft, yeah, sure...peoples phone calls aren't being monitored.

Just like Iraq had Weapons of Mass Destruction.

And just like the levies in New Orleans were fine.

Race relations in America are fantastic.

The murder rate is NOTHING to worry about.

Drugs aren't causing a problem in America's youth.

Lying like this makes me feel like I can be President of the United States!

 

[SuperDude]

Noam Chomsky - "describes himself as a libertarian socialist and a sympathizer of anarcho-syndicalism"

Sounds crazy.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

"All over the place, from the popular culture to the propaganda system, there is constant pressure to make people feel that they are helpless, that the only role they can have is to ratify decisions and to consume. "

"American society is now remarkably atomized. Political organizations have collapsed. In fact, it seems like even bowling leagues are collapsing. The left has a lot to answer for here. There's been a drift toward very fragmenting tendencies among left groups, toward this sort of identity politics. "

"Any dictator would admire the uniformity and obedience of the U.S. media. "

"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever. "

"Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune. "

"Everybody's worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there's a really easy way: stop participating in it. "

"If we choose, we can live in a world of comforting illusion. "


"The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all the people. "


sounds like the sanest cat in the room to me.

 

[jaguarr]

^^^
Chomsky is a master of stating the obvious and I wish there were more like him.

jag

 

[raybia]

well then you should read copious ammounts of noam chomsky...(

Chomsky

This should be required reading. If you people on the hype only know one person when it comes to politics it should be Chomsky.

 

[raybia]

A. I have no idea who Noam Chomsky is.

Please do yourself a favor and become familar with his writings. You cannot afford not to.