Can superheroes ever exist??

[ShadowBoxing]

(like Rugby, but I'm wondering now what the something new is)

It's a new club on campus I started based directly on a favorite movie of mine, if that helps....but we don't really talk about it.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

It's a new club on campus I started based directly on a favorite movie of mine, if that helps....but we don't really talk about it.

LOL

Wait...

You broke the first AND second f*****g rules!!

 

[ShadowBoxing]

LOL

Wait...

You broke the first AND second f*****g rules!!

I said nuuthing

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

LIES AND TECHNICALITIES!!!! You'll be lucky if you survive. *Evil stare.*

 

[The Last Meatbag]

pssssst...





hey.


hey.


I think he started a fight club...


you know....


like that one movie....

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

And now we have to kill you.

 

[The Last Meatbag]

AIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

That's alright, I've been really wanted to try this new synthesized neuro toxin alteration enzyme. It should only hurt as long as you have left to live.

 

[Grim Goblin]

ok ShadowBoxing, well I'm sorry if I made it sound like it was something easy to do, because that's nowhere near what I meant.

Of course people are going to rush you all at once in a fight instead of going at you one at a time. That's a gimme. Who ever said anything different?

As for fighting techniques, I never talked about martial arts or anything like that. All I said is that knowing where to hit for maximum effect (i.e: incapacitate opponents) is a big advantage. you don't need martial arts classes to know that joints are weak spots and that making an opponent struggle to breathe is a tactical advantage. Is it easy? No I don't think so and especially not while going against many people.

I never said weapons are bad either. I said that people tend to become overconfident when they have a weapon in hand. Sure, a baseball bat is a good tool but if you sacrifice all your defence just because you have a bat, you're going to lose it really quickly, especially if you fight more than one guy.

Did I ever say "charge in like an idiot"? Or "go play: who can take the most punches" against ten other guys?

Were we even talking about a fair fight Because I was under the impression that we were discussing jumping some scumbags by surprise while holding all the advantages.

 

[lars573]

Usually broken bones in sports (like Rugby, but I'm wondering now what the something new is) are brought on by two overwhelming forces. Like one person is running one way full power, and is stopped abruptly by an equal or greater force, overstressing the bone. But you're right. It's still rare as the energy required to break healthy bones is really quite extreme.

Well we use the term break bones wrong here. What should be being said is you have to break limbs. Break as in make them not able to function. You twist a persons arm beind there back and pull out, the arm is broken. That is you've torn up all the ligaments and tendons in that arms elbow and shoulder. It's not easy to do but it's possible.

Now as too what is and isn't possible in regards to superheroes.

Possible today;
Batman
Green Arrow/Hawkeye
Black Widow
Ironman (well a lesser version that lacks flight and repulsors)

Near future;
Captain America


Impopssible given how the laws of the universe work;
Superman- (or any character with super strength) his level of strength is impossible due to physics. If he tried to lift a building or airliners he'd snap it in two. The tiny (relatively) surface area of his hands would be pressing into the concrete or aluminum or the bulding or plane would exert to much force and he would break the surfce of the building or plane.
Giantman- (or any large character) even if you could somehow trigger a man to grow to 60 foot tall it woujld be too dangerous for him to move around. Why? Physics again. Being 100 more massive than a normal man would mean that his body would be 100 times more affected by gravity. so unless his bones were 100 times more dense stubbing his toe on a car could shatter every bone in his foot. Falling over would kill him. His spine would be minced, his skull would shatter. For example elephants are kept in their encloshiers in zoos buy a simple charin linked fence and a 4 foot deep trench. What keeps the in their cage is the trench. They know that falling into a hole only 4 feet deep would break their bones. This is due to their over all mass.
Green lantern
Flash
Wasp/Atom (or any shrinker)
Hawkman/Hawkgirl/Angel -in nature there are no 6 limbed vertabreates. Limbs are arms legs or wings. Tails are extentions of the spine. Leaving that aside, wingspan of a flying animal has to be 2:1 in terms of surface area. Plus to fly you need to be light. Birds do this via hollow bones. So a flying humanoid would too. Therefore Hawkman would be 30% lighter than a normal man his size due to hollow bones. And his wings would have to be 2x bigger or he'd never fly anywhere.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Well we use the term break bones wrong here. What should be being said is you have to break limbs. Break as in make them not able to function. You twist a persons arm beind there back and pull out, the arm is broken. That is you've torn up all the ligaments and tendons in that arms elbow and shoulder. It's not easy to do but it's possible.

Now as too what is and isn't possible in regards to superheroes.

Possible today;
Batman
Green Arrow/Hawkeye
Black Widow
Ironman (well a lesser version that lacks flight and repulsors)

Near future;
Captain America


Impopssible given how the laws of the universe work;
Superman- (or any character with super strength) his level of strength is impossible due to physics. If he tried to lift a building or airliners he'd snap it in two. The tiny (relatively) surface area of his hands would be pressing into the concrete or aluminum or the bulding or plane would exert to much force and he would break the surfce of the building or plane.
Giantman- (or any large character) even if you could somehow trigger a man to grow to 60 foot tall it woujld be too dangerous for him to move around. Why? Physics again. Being 100 more massive than a normal man would mean that his body would be 100 times more affected by gravity. so unless his bones were 100 times more dense stubbing his toe on a car could shatter every bone in his foot. Falling over would kill him. His spine would be minced, his skull would shatter. For example elephants are kept in their encloshiers in zoos buy a simple charin linked fence and a 4 foot deep trench. What keeps the in their cage is the trench. They know that falling into a hole only 4 feet deep would break their bones. This is due to their over all mass.
Green lantern
Flash
Wasp/Atom (or any shrinker)
Hawkman/Hawkgirl/Angel -in nature there are no 6 limbed vertabreates. Limbs are arms legs or wings. Tails are extentions of the spine. Leaving that aside, wingspan of a flying animal has to be 2:1 in terms of surface area. Plus to fly you need to be light. Birds do this via hollow bones. So a flying humanoid would too. Therefore Hawkman would be 30% lighter than a normal man his size due to hollow bones. And his wings would have to be 2x bigger or he'd never fly anywhere.

I don't see a Captain America without some form of collapsable muscle.

Either way, Superman's strength is a possibility. Our muscle structures aren't capable of that sort of load bearing, but another one might. As for his holding up buildings, that's unlikely, but that's not really a factor of strength. The physics doesn't mind his strength, just the physics of him holding up a building.

Giant Man would be able to move around just fine. He's a proportionate character, and would operate proportionally. His only physics problem is a conservation problem, where he basically gains all sorts of mass out of nothing.

Green Lantern? That's sort of different. A mechanism that could control energy isn't exactly an impossibility. We simply don't know how to do it, thought it would be a series of refracting energies to hold things in place. Though the whole living in space via them are obviously impossible.

However, the Hawkman dillemma is an otherwise thing. Just because beings like them don't exist on Earth, doesn't force the idea they don't exist elsewhere. Should you have a totally dense structure that can fly as they do? No. But the idea of them isn't exactly without possibility.

Flash is a possibility. Someone who's skin is chemically stable enough to withstand extremely high energy gains, with extremely non-friction joints is a good possibility. The only problem is the whole atoms not being able to retain so much energy at such high speeds. Several times the speed of sound is fine, but once is you start accelerating in the 30% and up the speed of light, his atoms would break apart and just kill him.

And Wasp and Atom are obviously impossible due to laws of physics.

 

[Hotwire]

Flash is a possibility. Someone who's skin is chemically stable enough to withstand extremely high energy gains, with extremely non-friction joints is a good possibility. The only problem is the whole atoms not being able to retain so much energy at such high speeds. Several times the speed of sound is fine, but once is you start accelerating in the 30% and up the speed of light, his atoms would break apart and just kill him.

They actually checked into this one on the Discovery channel. The speed at which he would move would require a very large amount of energy. Since humans get our energy from the food we eat (calories) he would need to eat constantly just to sustain his accelerated metabolism.

 

[The Question]

Breaking bones is extremely hard (I should know). And incapacitating an opponent in 1 hit is extremely hard if not near impossible in some cases. Martial Arts classes are great because they usually set up a situation in which you can perform such maneuvers with ease. However even JKD and KM (which are largely used by military/police and are more or less brawling arts) usually can only be applied with one or two attackers.

I've seen Akido masters who can stand [perfectly] still while guys literally bounce off them. While it doesn't actually several incapcitate the opponent, it probably would get him to walk away. I myself broke a chair over someone's back, that put him down fairly quickly.

I think the interesting thing, and why I mention that story, is because the whole incident started with the guys claiming he could kick my ass because "boxing has rules". And he was right Boxing did, the Frat party did not. Life doesn't have rules. 5 guys are more likely to dogpile you and get you caught up in a massive brawl (remember my pro NFL cousin...not a lineman either a DB got the crap beaten out of him by 4 guys..I think) than anything else.

Grim Goblin is right, the best way to beat them is to move around...particularly in the exact opposite direction they are going. I.E. running. You'd at least be better off in a position where they have to come at you one at a time. In Batman Begins, we see Batman encircled at the docks...easy way to get beat badly. Surrounded means dead more or less.

While I agree as a Boxer relying on weapons is bad, weapons themselves are never bad. If you have 2 or more guys on you or one guy with a weapon I suggest you get an equalizer. A blunt object is usually nice. An inept fighter with a beer bottle is better than a 10th degree Olympic Black Belt without one...that was a friend of my professors. My Professor an Olympic Wrestler couldn't fend him off either until he promised to leave and never return to that bar.

Like I've said, you're no taking tactics into acount. You're assuming that the vigilante in question is just going to try and go hand to hand with a gang of thugs like an idiot. A proper use of weapons and stealth would even things out pretty well.

Comics have a tendency to delude us into thinking something fantastical is truly possible and or that the characters are actually doing something worthwhile with their time. Comics rarely however explain themselves fully. Batman would seriously need some form of instant transit and telepathy to get to the crimes they show him stopping.

So a vigilante wouldn't be able to stop every crime in town. Big deal. At least he's trying.

I also am in the boat with Grim, a costume and even a rep would not deter people from shooting you. The ONLY rep I can see detering someone is the rep a guy like The Punisher would get. He's big, old crazy guy with post traumatic stress symdrom and has lots of guns. Thats a rep. He's good at JKD did not deter people from attempting to kill Bruce Lee (who by the way had a houseful of guns). Neither Mike Tyson, who faces pestering every dang day. Except the difference is Mike Tyson and Lee are not fighting crime or pesting criminals, who have no quams about killing you.

If some "Dark, seemingly inhuman figure" beats the grap out of a bunch of drug dealers and tells one of them to tell everyone else that "their kind" is no longer welcome, word would spread fast. You're not really noticing that people can be scared by something they don't understand very quickly.

Tell me more because right now I'm picturing a realistic FX suit that leaves no freedom of movement for fights. please explain what you have in mind. it's intriguing.

Okay. Picture Batman's mask, but with the big Bok Kane ears. Now, let's say he does the thing in the movis where he covers his eyes with black paint. He does the same thing with his exposed skin, wears a false set of fangs in his teeth, and wears white contact lenses. The rest of the suit is all black, possibly with claw like extensions on the fingers of the gloves.

Flashbangs are really effective inside a building, but outside at night, it really draws attention from anybody around. True, your opponents are blinded but when you rely on keeping to the shadows to go around freely, the last thing you need is innocent bystanders who come to "see what that flash was about" and possibly make the situation more difficult.

True. But, if this is happening late at night, there's probably going to be very few innocent bystanders. At most it would wake some people around you up, and even if they cares enough to look, you'd be gone before they got there.

Exactly what type of taser are we talking about? the shooting dart type or what I refer as the "electric shaver" type?

I was thinking the electric shaver kind.

 

[redmarvel]

Unfortunatly, as each of these inventions comes into use, it is no longer considered "super". Just ordinary, every day, type stuff. If a person from the 16th centuary were to see an elevator, an escalator, a motion sensitive door, they would think they were dealing with the supernatural, where as we take it all for granted. I think that the only "super" people we will have are the ones we already have. Those rare and unusual folk who go beyond the expected to save the lives of other people. The police, fire men and ambulance attendants who risk their own lives for ours. And the "super" villains are the folk who think that shooting up a building full of unarmed civilians is the thing to do. (Likewise kidnappers, rapists, etc, are "super" villains).

 

[November Rain]

quite simply yes.

 

[lars573]

I don't see a Captain America without some form of collapsable muscle.

The only truely imposible thing about Cap is the speed with which he aquires his increased muscle mass. In reality for Steve Rodgers to go from bean poll to bodybuilder would take 6+ months. And he'd be eating like a pregnant woman the whole time.

Either way, Superman's strength is a possibility. Our muscle structures aren't capable of that sort of load bearing, but another one might. As for his holding up buildings, that's unlikely, but that's not really a factor of strength. The physics doesn't mind his strength, just the physics of him holding up a building.

That's what I mean't. I probably didn't say it very well, I was very tired and hopped up on allergy relif pills. t:

Giant Man would be able to move around just fine. He's a proportionate character, and would operate proportionally. His only physics problem is a conservation problem, where he basically gains all sorts of mass out of nothing.

I was leaving that out. If you could find a way to shunt mass in and out of your body in seconds like Giant man does the growing would be less of a problem. But once he's 60 feet tall moving would be. Because unless his body gained density in addition to mass the forces (mass * acceeration) acting on him would to much for his bones to take. A physicist did an article on this kinds of thing. I gotta find it.

Green Lantern? That's sort of different. A mechanism that could control energy isn't exactly an impossibility. We simply don't know how to do it, thought it would be a series of refracting energies to hold things in place. Though the whole living in space via them are obviously impossible.

GL rings work by making plasma construts. They aren't made of energy. Plasma is the 4th state of matter. You know solid, liquid, gas, then plasma. That menas anything GL rings make is superheated. To the point that touching anything would burn it severly. Also you need some kind of matter to make plasma anyway. So in space a GL's ring wouldn't work very well. On earth it super heats the air around it to make constructs.

However, the Hawkman dillemma is an otherwise thing. Just because beings like them don't exist on Earth, doesn't force the idea they don't exist elsewhere. Should you have a totally dense structure that can fly as they do? No. But the idea of them isn't exactly without possibility.

You left out angel. If he existed he probably would have featery bird wings. He'd probably have wings like Manbat's. Maybe 6+ limbed exist on other planets. But to fly properly birds wings need close to 180 degrees of sweep to get lift. Even if Hawkman had the lowered body mass needed for flight the position of his wings on his back would impeded there move to much for him to get enough lift.

Flash is a possibility. Someone who's skin is chemically stable enough to withstand extremely high energy gains, with extremely non-friction joints is a good possibility. The only problem is the whole atoms not being able to retain so much energy at such high speeds. Several times the speed of sound is fine, but once is you start accelerating in the 30% and up the speed of light, his atoms would break apart and just kill him.

The energy requirements of someone moving like that would be massive. The real superspeedster would need to eat 9 thanksgiving dinners a day. Or his body would have to wring all the energy it could out of regular meals. Plus Flash is supposed to ahve a hyperspeed metabolism, he'd age and die very quickly.

 

[Bill]

If some "Dark, seemingly inhuman figure" beats the grap out of a bunch of drug dealers and tells one of them to tell everyone else that "their kind" is no longer welcome, word would spread fast. You're not really noticing that people can be scared by something they don't understand very quickly.

Unless they're the extremely superstitious sort, they'll get over that very quickly, and what you'll eventually have is a street full of thugs arming themselves even more and shooting at shadows, possibly hurting innocent people. And if you become a real pain, the people in charge will hire professionals, possibly more than one, to deal with you. And they won't care about the scary suit.

 

[Hades]

Unless they're the extremely superstitious sort, they'll get over that very quickly, and what you'll eventually have is a street full of thugs arming themselves even more and shooting at shadows, possibly hurting innocent people. And if you become a real pain, the people in charge will hire professionals, possibly more than one, to deal with you. And they won't care about the scary suit.

Criminals are a superstitious and cowardly lot

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Criminals are a superstitious and cowardly lot

That's what we'll write on the first "Batman's" gravestone.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Seriously, you can dress up as the love child of Alien, Predator, Freddy, Jason and Tom Delay and I will still shoot you.

 

[Grim Goblin]

Yeah I'm gonna have to go with Shadowboxing here and say that no matter what the suit looks like, an armed thug will still shoot. Even more so if he's scarred to death.

That's why you have your good friend Mr kevlar to help you. It's not a perfect solution by a longshot but at least it offers some protection.

best bet would be to use either smoke bombs or flashbangs and rush in with weapons ready. Nail them hard and fast so they don't see you coming.
After a few successful trashings you'll start to have a rep with the added bonus of not being identified. They can't order a hit if they don't know what the target looks like.

And just to make sure everyone understand me clearly: THIS ISN'T AS EASY AS IT SOUNDS. IT IS IN FACT A DIFFICULT THING TO ACHIEVE!

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Yeah I'm gonna have to go with Shadowboxing here and say that no matter what the suit looks like, an armed thug will still shoot. Even more so if he's scarred to death.

That's why you have your good friend Mr kevlar to help you. It's not a perfect solution by a longshot but at least it offers some protection.

best bet would be to use either smoke bombs or flashbangs and rush in with weapons ready. Nail them hard and fast so they don't see you coming.
After a few successful trashings you'll start to have a rep with the added bonus of not being identified. They can't order a hit if they don't know what the target looks like.

And just to make sure everyone understand me clearly: THIS ISN'T AS EASY AS IT SOUNDS. IT IS IN FACT A DIFFICULT THING TO ACHIEVE!

And whole part defeats the purpose of having a costume. (I don't mean you wouldn't cover up with a mask...it just would not have to make you look like anything)

 

[Grim Goblin]

And whole part defeats the purpose of having a costume. (I don't mean you wouldn't cover up with a mask...it just would not have to make you look like anything)

True, but making a "super-hero"-ish costume that is practical AND looks cool isn't the easiest thing to do in the first place.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

Yeah I'm gonna have to go with Shadowboxing here and say that no matter what the suit looks like, an armed thug will still shoot. Even more so if he's scarred to death.

That's why you have your good friend Mr kevlar to help you. It's not a perfect solution by a longshot but at least it offers some protection.

best bet would be to use either smoke bombs or flashbangs and rush in with weapons ready. Nail them hard and fast so they don't see you coming.
After a few successful trashings you'll start to have a rep with the added bonus of not being identified. They can't order a hit if they don't know what the target looks like.

And just to make sure everyone understand me clearly: THIS ISN'T AS EASY AS IT SOUNDS. IT IS IN FACT A DIFFICULT THING TO ACHIEVE!

If they can't see you then, more then likely, you can't see them either. Defeats the whole purpose.

 

[The Question]

Unless they're the extremely superstitious sort, they'll get over that very quickly, and what you'll eventually have is a street full of thugs arming themselves even more and shooting at shadows, possibly hurting innocent people. And if you become a real pain, the people in charge will hire professionals, possibly more than one, to deal with you. And they won't care about the scary suit.

Okay. My mian question is, what will these professionals do? They don't know who you are or where you live or even what you look like. You can't order a hit on someone when you don't know anything about them. And I think you're over estimating people here. Folks can be easily scared by the unusual. Especially if that unusual thing is known to beat the holy hell out of those in your profession.

Yeah I'm gonna have to go with Shadowboxing here and say that no matter what the suit looks like, an armed thug will still shoot. Even more so if he's scarred to death.

Of course.

That's why you have your good friend Mr kevlar to help you. It's not a perfect solution by a longshot but at least it offers some protection.



best bet would be to use either smoke bombs or flashbangs and rush in with weapons ready. Nail them hard and fast so they don't see you coming.

S'what I've been saying all along.

After a few successful trashings you'll start to have a rep with the added bonus of not being identified. They can't order a hit if they don't know what the target looks like.



And just to make sure everyone understand me clearly: THIS ISN'T AS EASY AS IT SOUNDS. IT IS IN FACT A DIFFICULT THING TO ACHIEVE!

No need to inernet yell, my friend. But yes, it probably would be quite dificult.

And whole part defeats the purpose of having a costume. (I don't mean you wouldn't cover up with a mask...it just would not have to make you look like anything)

A costume, if properly designed, makes you memorable. Helps with the rep.

If they can't see you then, more then likely, you can't see them either. Defeats the whole purpose.

If you're wearing all black at about four AM, you're less likely to be visible to others. Plus, like I said, flashbangs.