Gotham Can this REALLY work?

[Katzenbach]

So, I've been watching this series since the pilot episode but I'm starting to wonder if this series can actually survive without Batman. I'm all for a back story but so far, I'm not impressed. I'm starting to get to a point where I might give up. Anyone else feel the same?

 

[Kane52630]

I don't, the show is centered around James Gordon and not Bruce Wayne which is refreshing for me.

 

[Drizzle]

I think it definitely can. What helps is that Batman has one of, if not the most interesting rogues gallery and supporting cast out of all the superheroes. You can still have great stories without him.

 

[DigificWriter]

Yes, it can work, because it IS working.

It's about time we saw more Noir on TV, and the Batman property and all its associated trappings function as the perfect vehicle for that genre.

The cast has really embraced the Noir aspects of the series, and have made these roles their own even after only four episodes, and the pulpy nature of the 'new case each week' elements of the series allow for new viewers to just jump on at any one point while still allowing the series to be the serialized Noir that it's meant to be at its core.

 

[Micromind]

I'm liking the series so far, they can show the path that Bruce Wayne took towards becoming Batman while showing all the villains slowly evolving into larger than life villains, the origins of Penguin, Two face, Riddler and (maybe) Joker.

Also, the story of support characters associated with Bruce, Dr. Lesilie Thomkins, Dr. Arkham, Dr. Hugo Strange, Alfred and Tommy Elliott.

Then there are minor villains like Dagget and Maraonis.

 

[Micromind]

Interesting thing is this has already got a 22 episode order from Fox and they (I mean both Fox and WB joint deal) also also sold it to Netflix after first season, so at least season one is guaranteed.

 

[SlamAdams]

It can absolutely, positively survive without Batman. Just not with the current writers and their crappy dialog. Not having Batman is the least of the worries for this show.

 

[Katzenbach]

I agree that Batman has always had a GREAT selection of rogue enemies but I feel that the combination of Batman and them was the secret. On top of that, the show has gone TOO far back in time if you ask me. I think if they had planned it so that Bruce was older and could become Batman half way through the series, that would have given viewers (like me) something to look forward to. For example, if the entire series ran for 6-8 seasons (hypothetically), have bruce become Batman 3-4 seasons in (half way).

Guess I'm alone on this opinion but that's how I would have done it.

 

[croboy82]

Yes it can. People just have to give up their hope that this is (only) a Batman show. He might show up in the last episode/seasons/scene whatever.

 

[Frodo]

Yes it can. People just have to give up their hope that this is (only) a Batman show. He might show up in the last episode/seasons/scene whatever.

I agree. That's why I feel they should really cut back on having Bruce in every single episode. I feel he should be a character we check up on every once in a while , and if anything, should become more and more distant to the audience as opposed to someone we see every week.

The other elements such as the mob, cops, a rise of the freaks is fine though I think even seeing Oswald week after week is a bit much as well.

 

[The Guard]

Bruce Wayne learned and trained for a lifetime before he became Batman.

There's PLENTY of material and concepts to introduce without ruining the "he will be Batman someday" element. If anything, it's an incredible way to do it, and a way to show Bruce's mission unfolding that we would likely never see elsewhere, due to time constraints.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I'm not sure this show knows how to escalate things.

I feel like after this season, things should be in place for a Batman style figure to show up.

Everything feels like it's just waiting for Batman to show up.

I don't think the show has anything interesting to say about the city of Gotham at all.

2 seasons tops.

 

[Katzenbach]

I'm not sure this show knows how to escalate things.

I feel like after this season, things should be in place for a Batman style figure to show up.

Everything feels like it's just waiting for Batman to show up.

I don't think the show has anything interesting to say about the city of Gotham at all.

2 seasons tops.

Well, at least I'm not the only one who has doubts. I was starting to wonder. lol

 

[Frodo]

Bruce Wayne learned and trained for a lifetime before he became Batman.

There's PLENTY of material and concepts to introduce without ruining the "he will be Batman someday" element. If anything, it's an incredible way to do it, and a way to show Bruce's mission unfolding that we would likely never see elsewhere, due to time constraints.

I frankly don't think he needs to be the focus of the show at all. While you could show him on his path to being Batman , I think there's more than enough material and concepts for the series to exist without focusing on Bruce at all. For me, seeing Bruce grow up but without constraints isn't as interesting as seeing the adventures of a young Gordon and the transformation of the Gotham underworld.

The latter is something we really haven't seen before, where we've seen Bruce's childhood and training to becoming Batman in several different movies, cartoons, etc. That''s why I don't think Bruce even needs to be a focus and can show up every once in a while as opposed to every week. I agree with you there's enough there for Bruce, but I don't think you really even need to show it given all the potential stories to tell which have nothing to do with how Bruce becomes Batman.

 

[The Guard]

We have never, ever seen Bruce Wayne's childhood and growth, training, etc depicted in a gradual or extended manner on TV or film.

Even in BATMAN BEGINS, his origin was streamlined and all but rushed through.

It's long overdue we got a decent version of that story.

 

[batbax]

We have never, ever seen Bruce Wayne's childhood and growth, training, etc depicted in a gradual or extended manner on TV or film.

Even in BATMAN BEGINS, his origin was streamlined and all but rushed through.

It's long overdue we got a decent version of that story.

I love how you keep pretending a 2hr movie has the time to show these things like a long running tv show does. Begins didnt "rush through" anything. Was the definitive origin story for superheroes, and im hardly in the minority on that one. It was a pretty natural progression for a 2 hour movie and we got plenty of Bruce as a kid. This show, on the other hand, IS acting like it only has a few hours to tell it's story and like posters above have said is in real danger of blowing it's load early. Two seasons max is my guess as well, unless mediocrity is the new great for tv shows in this day and age.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I'm glad they didn't just do a Batman series.

 

[Jordacar]

I'm not gonna lie, part of me want this show to fail because it would be really fun to dissect its corpse.

 

[kguillou]

This show has incredible potential to be a compelling crime noir series. The show just REALLY needs different writers because the dialogue is sooooooooo bad and cheesy. Get a good writer who can write good, nuanced, witty, self aware dialogue and you've fixed the main issue with the show.

It's a good show that can be great if it calms down, acts more subtle and doesn't have their characters talk like they're in a Schumacher film.

 

[04nbod]

I find Bruce to be the weakest part of the show. The excuses to go back to see him are contrived

 

[batbax]

I find Bruce to be the weakest part of the show. The excuses to go back to see him are contrived

Well he's definitely not the high point lol. It feels contrived because it is. Everytimr thy show him it's like omg he's doing teh detectivez stuffs!! Not to mention the kid playing him comes off as a spoiled brat. The creator of the show flat out said hes the best actor to ever portray Bruce wayne(yes, really) so I guess he's trying to show him off..
He really doesn't need to appear in every show, but like an insecure girlfriend the show needs to constantly remind you that it's best trait(batman) will eventually show up. Bad way to go IMO. Like someone else said if they keep going this rate the end of season 2 would feel like batman should already exist.

 

[The Guard]

I love how you keep pretending a 2hr movie has the time to show these things like a long running tv show does. Begins didnt "rush through" anything. Was the definitive origin story for superheroes, and im hardly in the minority on that one. It was a pretty natural progression for a 2 hour movie and we got plenty of Bruce as a kid. This show, on the other hand, IS acting like it only has a few hours to tell it's story and like posters above have said is in real danger of blowing it's load early. Two seasons max is my guess as well, unless mediocrity is the new great for tv shows in this day and age.

I don't recall pretending any such thing.

And yes, natural progression for a 2 hour movie and a streamlined origin or not, BATMAN BEGINS absolutely rushed through Bruce Wayne's origin compared to the source material.

I can't even process the last half of your statement.

 

[batbax]

I don't recall pretending any such thing.

And yes, natural progression for a 2 hour movie and a streamlined origin or not, BATMAN BEGINS absolutely rushed through Bruce Wayne's origin compared to the source material.

I can't even process the last half of your statement.

Ah. So a 2 hour movie "rushed" through Bruce's origins compared to source material that spans over a century and contains a myriad of ways in which it's presented. That's a pretty tough standard to live up to. What source material exactly are you referring? Perhaps you could narrow down the hundreds or thousands pieces of "source material". I can't even process that, so I guess I'm right there with you. Also I thought this shows premise was gotham before batman.. I think if they made a lesser character for the first couple seasons it would heighten the anticipation, but that's just being tossed aside. If the show was called "Bruce Wayne" then hell ya I agree lets see Bruce and his whole origin story but I doubt if you thought begins didnt do it justice that this show will at all.

 

[SlamAdams]

We have never, ever seen Bruce Wayne's childhood and growth, training, etc depicted in a gradual or extended manner on TV or film..

Or comics, really, right? We just get flashbacks and prequel arcs when applicable. I would love a dedicated series to the years between Bruce leaving Gotham and returning as Batman.

 

[batbax]

Yes I was trying to rack my brain thinking of this great source material that showed this origin story but I guess I haven't read the right comics. Maybe he means all of them put together who knows. Either way, didnt make much sense.