Christopher Nolan's Howard Hughes Biopic

[redfirebird2008]

Considering TDK is his best film. I call bs on that.

haha.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

haha.

Hysterical retort.

 

[KRIM]

That's how I feel about his Batman movies. Waste of creativity.

Nonsense. Half of Nolan's movies are adaptations, so it's not like his head is full to the brim of original concepts and ideas that are being pushed to the sidelines. He's even cited as enjoying the experience of being somewhat constrained by comic book lore, as it forces him to be creative and deliver something fresh.

We can argue all day which of Nolan's films are his best. But to say his talents are being wasted on any of the Batman films is ridiculous. The genuine talent he brings to the series has set a new bar for the genre and it shows.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Hysterical retort.

t:

 

[Doctor Jones]

I'd love to see this and always thought what his film would have been like. I love The Aviator, but I couldn't complain if we got two great Howard Hughes films.

I wonder if Jim Carrey is still Nolan's choice for Hughes.

 

[HighFivingMF]

Didn't we already get a movie about Howard Hughes, not that long ago?

He is making 3 Batman movies within a decade. It's about a later period in Howard's life so... I don't see what the problem is.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Exactly KRIM. Nolan isn't the deity of originality that some have bestowed upon him after Inception. Following is the only other original of his besides Inception. That's two out of eight if we count Rises.

 

[flickchick85]

My favorite Nolan movies are the ones that get made only because HE wants to make them (in other words, not Batman or Insomnia, which would've been done with or without him), so if he's so determined to make this Hughes movie, then it must be one damn good movie and not something "we've seen already." Which means I'm psyched.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Exactly KRIM. Nolan isn't the deity of originality that some have bestowed upon him after Inception. Following is the only other original of his besides Inception. That's two out of eight if we count Rises.

Eh, I never said he was original. I merely said the Batman movies are a waste of his creativity. Memento, for instance, was based on a story his brother told him on a car trip. Nolan finished writing his own script and making his own movie before his brother even finished writing the short story. The two are pretty different from each other. His brother called him "crazy" when he proposed the idea of telling the story backwards. Cough...creativity...cough. The Prestige, co-written by the two of them, is pretty different from the book but even the author enjoyed the film a lot despite the differences. The problem with the superhero genre is that you pretty much know how it's going to end. The movies are pretty formulaic. Nolan attempted to buck that trend somewhat with The Dark Knight, but then he fell into a cliched climax just like he did in Batman Begins.

 

[KRIM]

I'd hardly consider weak climaxes as superseding all the other tremendous creative effort he's put into the rest of the films.

 

[redfirebird2008]

I'd hardly consider weak climaxes as superseding all the other tremendous creative effort he's put into the rest of the films.

It's potentially 6 years he could have spent on other projects (2 years on each of the three films). That's how I view it. Taking the material seriously was a great move. But honestly, the material was already great to begin with. Another director could have done what he did with BB and TDK. The key is just giving respect to the material. I'm not sure another director could have done what he did with Memento or Inception. But of course Inception wouldn't have been greenlit with a good budget without Batman, so it's a pickle.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I don't buy that the Two-Face hostage climax is cliche.

Most moviegoers and fans who didn't spoil themselves silly didn't see the ending coming at all. Nope.

I am having a hard time seeing how TDK's climax is cliche like BB.

 

[KRIM]

It's potentially 6 years he could have spent on other projects (2 years on each of the three films). That's how I view it. Taking the material seriously was a great move. But honestly, the material was already great to begin with. Another director could have done what he did with BB and TDK. The key is just giving respect to the material. I'm not sure another director could have done what he did with Memento or Inception. But of course Inception wouldn't have been greenlit with a good budget without Batman, so it's a pickle.

It's possible another director could have done what he did. But I'm sure you agree Nolan is in a very rare class of his own. It's not so easy to nab someone with his talent and the passion he clearly holds for the material. The franchise is incredibly fortunate to have him. He could have left after TDK but he willfully came back for TDKR. So evidently he doesn't think he's wasting his talents. As long as the primary objective is to make great films, that's good enough for me.

 

[redfirebird2008]

I don't buy that the Two-Face hostage climax is cliche.

Most moviegoers and fans who didn't spoil themselves silly didn't see the ending coming at all. Nope.

I am having a hard time seeing how TDK's climax is cliche like BB.

I'm not talking about the Two-Face climax, which was well-done. I'm talking about the OTHER climax, actually the other TWO climaxes. The ferry boats scene was cliched as hell. The SWAT/sonar stuff was over the top action gadgetry for the sake of it, just like Batman Begins' ridiculous microwave emitter plot.

It's possible another director could have done what he did. But I'm sure you agree Nolan is in a very rare class of his own. It's not so easy to nab someone with his talent and the passion he clearly holds for the material. The franchise is incredibly fortunate to have him. He could have left after TDK but he willfully came back for TDKR. So evidently he doesn't think he's wasting his talents. As long as the primary objective is to make great films, that's good enough for me.

Yes, the franchise is fortunate. He's the first live action filmmaker to give proper character development to Batman. Can't believe it took so long for someone to try it, haha. And you bring up a good point about returning for TDKR, but it will be funny to watch the Bat dorks throw him under the bus if TDKR is even remotely disappointing. Hell, it could be really good and that won't be good enough -- if for no other reason than the Joker is impossible to follow.

 

[Fenrir]

The movies are pretty formulaic. Nolan attempted to buck that trend somewhat with The Dark Knight, but then he fell into a cliched climax just like he did in Batman Begins.

Pray tell, how is TDK's climax cliched? I'm dying to know the huge number of superhero films you're going to list with climaxes that involve a verbal showdown between the hero and the villain, a hostage situation with a psychopath holding a child at gunpoint and the main character making a morally ambiguous decision to conceal the truth from the people. Please, enlighten us.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Pray tell, how is TDK's climax cliched? I'm dying to know the huge number of superhero films you're going to list with climaxes that involve a verbal showdown between the hero and the villain, a hostage situation with a psychopath holding a child at gunpoint and the main character making a morally ambiguous decision to conceal the truth from the people. Please, enlighten us.

The hostage crap has been done over and over. Hell, look at Batman Forever for an example of the "pick your poison" scenario. The over the top gadget (sonar in TDK's case) has been done over and over (see microwave emitter in BB and countless other doomsday devices in other movies). The cops misunderstanding and trying to take out the good guy has been done over and over. The Two-Face/Gordon/Batman sequence was great, but it was the only great part of the final 30 minutes of that film other than Ledger's final speech.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I'm talking about the OTHER climax

The Two-Face climax is the real climax.

He's the first live action filmmaker to give proper character development to Batman

Batman Returns says hi.

Which, by the way, is superior to TDK as a film.

 

[redfirebird2008]

The Two-Face climax is the real climax.

Batman Returns says hi.

Which, by the way, is superior to TDK as a film.

I got 'em on equal ground as films (8/10 for both), but I don't feel Returns (or TDK) had proper development for Batman. Begins is the only one so far that has pulled it off.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Batman Returns did develop Batman well in the film. But, Batman wasn't exactly the main character. The film had 3 main characters in a film about their dual and conflicting natures. BR is a very underrated film.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Batman Returns did develop Batman well in the film. But, Batman wasn't exactly the main character. The film had 3 main characters in a film about their dual and conflicting natures. BR is a very underrated film.

I love the duality of the film, but I don't feel his character was particularly developed. That duality was already very present in B89. The problem is the Joker received more development in B89 to begin with. And yes, Returns is very underrated. Watched it the other night on Blu-ray. Love the transfer on that one. Top notch for a catalog title. The amazing thing about that one compared to B89 is the production values. They spent quite a bit more money on BR and it really shows through in how the two have aged over the years.

 

[GREEN =w= DAY]

Nolan directing a Howard Hughes film?

i am there!

i loved The Aviator and am intrested in seeing Nolan's take on Hughes life

 

[Tacit Ronin]

The arcs of Penguin and Catwoman fueled Batman's own. Same with TDK. Two-Face's arc fuels Batman. People say Two-Face was pointless in TDK, well, this is a reason right here. Two Face isn't his own character, but a supporting one who is used as a contrast to Batman.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I love the duality of the film, but I don't feel his character was particularly developed. That duality was already very present in B89. The problem is the Joker received more development in B89 to begin with. And yes, Returns is very underrated. Watched it the other night on Blu-ray. Love the transfer on that one. Top notch for a catalog title. The amazing thing about that one compared to B89 is the production values. They spent quite a bit more money on BR and it really shows through in how the two have aged over the years.

Agreed. People call the film goofy because of the penguins in the park, but in the context of the film, I felt they worked. I do agree B89 suffered from being about the Joker and not really about Batman. But, I felt that Batman being one of 3 main focuses worked much better in BR, which was just an overall stronger film.

 

[Fenrir]

The hostage crap has been done over and over.

Hostage situation with a psychopath holding a child quivering in fear at gunpoint in front of his parents? You gotta hand me the names of those movies.

Hell, look at Batman Forever for an example of the "pick your poison" scenario.

I'm not talking about just the idea of a hostage situation, but how it was done in TDK compared to other hostage situations in superhero films like Spiderman or Batman Forever. The one in TDK is not corny and not about giving the hero an impossible choice. As a matter of fact, in TDK, the hero is not given any choice at all and I might even go as far as to say that it's not a hostage situation to begin with. It's just about a man driven mad by grief and is hell bent on savoring the suffering of the people he holds responsible. The whole scene is dark (both visually and thematically), ominous, serious and disturbing. What superhero film had that again?

The over the top gadget (sonar in TDK's case) has been done over and over (see microwave emitter in BB and countless other doomsday devices in other movies).

The microwave emitter in BB was nothing more than a doomsday device. The sonar surveillance project had a greater relevance to the plot than that. It is a morally questionable tool created and used by the hero himself that actually adds value to the plot and the character. Apart from Batman being able to view the sonar images through the lenses in his cowl, there are actual plausible explanations for the way Batman's sonar project is depicted in the film. It can easily be understood it as Bruce mass-transmitting a ghost app through national network airwaves that uploads itself secretly onto individual cellphones and then silently runs in the background (much like a trojan horse, or spyware such as keyloggers) sending out the high-frequency pulse that allows Bruce to map the environment. Since sending a high frequency pulse isn't something that would take up a lot of memory or processing power, the app can stay concealed and continue to function discretely without anyone ever knowing.

As a matter of fact, I read an article in The Economist about a year ago about a similar experimental technology under development right now that uses cell phone signals from cars on roads to provide real time traffic flow and congestion data which can be used for urban planning.

The cops misunderstanding and trying to take out the good guy has been done over and over.

No, in TDK it was the cops misunderstanding and trying to take out the hostages. I'm a little behind on my superhero cinema quota so I hope you can point me in the right direction of more comic book films that had this element.

The Two-Face/Gordon/Batman sequence was great, but it was the only great part of the final 30 minutes of that film other than Ledger's final speech.

I find it hypocritical that some people on this board complain about the excess praise heaped on TDK, yet few find issues with stupidly exaggerated statements like this.

 

[Spider-Fan]

The microwave emitter in BB was nothing more than a doomsday device. The sonar surveillance project had a greater relevance to the plot than that. It is a morally questionable tool created and used by the hero himself that actually adds value to the plot and the character. Apart from Batman being able to view the sonar images through the lenses in his cowl, there are actual plausible explanations for the way Batman's sonar project is depicted in the film. It can easily be understood it as Bruce mass-transmitting a ghost app through national network airwaves that uploads itself secretly onto individual cellphones and then silently runs in the background (much like a trojan horse, or spyware such as keyloggers) sending out the high-frequency pulse that allows Bruce to map the environment. Since sending a high frequency pulse isn't something that would take up a lot of memory or processing power, the app can stay concealed and continue to function discretely without anyone ever knowing.

The cell phone sonar did feel cheap in TDK. I love the TDK, but even I found that to be a copout on how he finds the Joker. I get the dilemma, but it did feel like a device.