Civil_War_Where_your_Side???

[ripse]

Is 2 Option in Civil War Episode, Where Your Choose side:
Captain America where Anti Government (Registration Group) or Iron Man with Pro Government

I Choose Anti Government...Because That's My Choice...Secret Identity...it still should be secret.

 

[Tron Bonne]

EDIT: nvm

 

[hippie_hunter]

Both sides were in the wrong in Civil War.

In concept, Iron Man was in the right. This isn't an issue of pro-government or anti-government, it was an issue of accountability, responsibility, and reward. If a superhero screwed up, then they would be held accountable for their actions, the same way that doctors, policemen, fire fighters, teachers, and other public servants are. It also gave rewards to heroes for their duty. You see, superheroes don't get paid. It's why you often see heroes like Spider-Man have financial trouble. The SHRA paved the way for superheroes and their families to receive pay for their duties, allowing them to be more effective superheroes (you know since they won't have things like a job getting in the way), along with benefits like medical, paid vacation, etc (I dare you to say that someone like Spider-Man doesn't deserve medical insurance). It also provided required training to inexperienced superheroes, if you wanted to be a superhero, you needed to be trained and licensed by the CSA's the Initiative, just like how doctors, lawyers, aviators, plumbers, and other professions are. Without a license, you'd get arrested, and rightfully so. If regular people have to be trained, licensed, and held accounted for, so should superheroes. If regular people can be fined and arrested for not being properly suited for a profession, so should superheroes.

Iron Man also worked very hard to ensure that the government would not outlaw all superheroes and retrofit Sentinels to take down all metas, not just mutants.

Where Iron Man's argument completely fell apart was where he started imprisoning his friends in the Negative Zone without any rights. Cloning Thor wasn't a good idea either. And of course, how he pressured Spider-Man to reveal his identity and unmask on national television (something that even Iron Man admitted was a tactical mistake and was wrong in general) But everywhere else he was in the right.

Captain America was just wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

 

[Energist]

The problem with Civil War (and I actually enjoyed it as a whole, poor characterizations and Daredevil's absence aside) was that it was billed as this event where both sides were supposed to be characterized as equal parts right and wrong. However, it was clear that Millar and most writers of the minis approached it from the standpoint of Iron Man being wrong and Captain America being right. Offhand, I only really recall the Ms. Marvel tie-in issues doing a pretty good job of justifying Iron Man's side of the argument.

Of course, in the end, Captain America looks around and shoulders the blame for how bad things got, but it didn't change the fact that he and all of his outlaws were largely portrayed as freedom fighters throughout the event, whereas Iron Man and his faction of "pro-regs" were portrayed as this pro-big government Gestapo group.

In theory, I went into the event supporting Iron Man, and I am by no means a pro-big government type. I'm pretty much the exact opposite, in fact, probably being just a shade more liberal than Ron Paul in this regard. But for the same reasons that I don't want folks running around arresting people willy-nilly in the real world (honestly, even licensed bounty hunters like that "Dog" fellow somewhat bother me), I can't imagine I would be totally okay with someone with explosive powers or super strength anonymously flying around, being held all but completely uncountable for their actions should something go awry. Again, though, the way Iron Man and the other pro-regs were predominantly portrayed in reaching this goal made their side in practice almost impossible to root for.

 

[ripse]

EDIT: nvm

What is mean nvm?
sory about my english

 

[hippie_hunter]

NVM = Never Mind.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Oh yeah, I also forgot to mention, under the SHRA, you could still have a secret identity. You would have to reveal who you are to the government so that they can pay you, train you, insure you, keep track of you, etc. But superheroes were still allowed to keep their identities secret from the public.

Spider-Man did not have to reveal his secret identity.

 

[Ultra Lantern]

Captain America--Anti Government is what I voted.

 

[ripse]

Oh yeah, I also forgot to mention, under the SHRA, you could still have a secret identity. You would have to reveal who you are to the government so that they can pay you, train you, insure you, keep track of you, etc. But superheroes were still allowed to keep their identities secret from the public.

Spider-Man did not have to reveal his secret identity.

Yes I Know if we can team work with government we can receive payment, but in my opinion superhero/hero can help some other is look more social working and they did not ask for compensation, just we all can help all humankind in world with your kind heart. Maybe about job, superhero can have receive donation for organization social superhero community or looking another job... sory if my english bad...I just Try is about choice if we live in the world as a superhero, which do you think it is good or bad...

 

[hippie_hunter]

Yes I Know if we can team work with government we can receive payment, but in my opinion superhero/hero can help some other is look more social working and they did not ask for compensation, just we all can help all humankind in world with your kind heart. Maybe about job, superhero can have receive donation for organization social superhero community or looking another job... sory if my english bad...I just Try is about choice if we live in the world as a superhero, which do you think it is good or bad...

But there needs to be accountability. If a superhero is responsible for a person's death, they should be held responsible. You can't do that to someone who has a secret identity to the government. They need to be properly trained to prevent accidents like what the New Warriors did in Samford or what Spider-Man did to Gwen Stacy, whether it be through the government run Initiative or the privately run Avengers Academy.

It's great that they're dedicating their lives for this and that they're not asking for compensation, but not everyone is cut out to be a superhero. The same way that not everyone is cut out to be a doctor or a cop. Compensation will also allow them to be more effective superheroes.

Iron Man's actions were wrong, but Captain America's were even worse.

 

[BLACKVULCAN]

taking a page from my group " PUBLIC ENEMY"( before that bull &^%$ Flava of love show) FIGHT THE POWER!! YOU GOT FIGHT THE POWERS THAT BE.... He's god &^%$ CAPTAIN AMERICA!! of course i would follow his ass!

 

[KingMob]

Spider-Man didn't technically have to reveal his ID, but Tony pushed it in that direction if I remember right.

I'd have to go with Cap on this. I don't like the idea of any government in charge of a superhuman army. I'd rather there be some inexperienced yahoos out there causing property damage or civilian casualties (the US military causes civilian casualties all the time, but its "ok" because its govt sanctioned...really dubious distinction) than the Congress having the Sentry as their enforcer. Sure, the idea behind registration is legit, but in practice its insane and hypocritical. The way to go would have the Avengers, separate from government intervention, be responsible for finding and training new superhumans. Like the X-Men basically.

 

[Infidel]

Civil War was just awful. They blew all the ideas they had in the first 3 issues. It was obviously not put together well and now nothing makes sense. Basically all the characters were changed to suit this idea that didn't have a plot. It's really sad because think of what a really great version of this would look like.

Look at Avengers now. Apparently Cap and Iron Man work together again. That doesn't make any sense at all and I could see it coming. It turned Peter Parker into the saddest person ever born. I don't know why people read his book because they already messed up the biggest thing ever to happen to Peter and who should care about him fighting some negative guy and a terrible version of Doc Ock?

I thought the book was ridiculous and kind of insulting to the readers. I don't care what a big shot writer Mark Millar is supposed to be. he was clearly incapable of producing the material that was his idea. Now they are scrambling to find something for fans to hold onto. What happened to the 'Heroic Age'. It was 'fun' and now 'everythings O.K.' They wrote themselves out of credibility.

I kind be on any side of that silly story.

 

[kguillou]

I thought Civil War was a very interesting story, wasn't perfect but it did inject lots of new life into the Marvel universe, i dont think anyone can deny that. The problem was that both Cap and Tony acted irrationally. Tony meant well, he just wanted people to feel safer and for heroes to be held accountable for their actions, but he just got too involved with SHRA and lost focus and starting betraying his friends.

But Cap was also wrong. Instead of hearing Tony out and listening to his ideas and coming to a compromise, he completely flipped out and just straight up rebelled against Tony from the start. He refused to listen to reason and chose to fight for the sake of fighting which pretty much goes against Cap's core principle. Tony kept trying to get Cap to hear him out but he was too arrogant in his beliefs. Basically, Civil War could have easily been avoided if both parties had cooler heads.

 

[Iron_Stark]

Both sides were in the wrong in Civil War.

In concept, Iron Man was in the right. This isn't an issue of pro-government or anti-government, it was an issue of accountability, responsibility, and reward. If a superhero screwed up, then they would be held accountable for their actions, the same way that doctors, policemen, fire fighters, teachers, and other public servants are. It also gave rewards to heroes for their duty. You see, superheroes don't get paid. It's why you often see heroes like Spider-Man have financial trouble. The SHRA paved the way for superheroes and their families to receive pay for their duties, allowing them to be more effective superheroes (you know since they won't have things like a job getting in the way), along with benefits like medical, paid vacation, etc (I dare you to say that someone like Spider-Man doesn't deserve medical insurance). It also provided required training to inexperienced superheroes, if you wanted to be a superhero, you needed to be trained and licensed by the CSA's the Initiative, just like how doctors, lawyers, aviators, plumbers, and other professions are. Without a license, you'd get arrested, and rightfully so. If regular people have to be trained, licensed, and held accounted for, so should superheroes. If regular people can be fined and arrested for not being properly suited for a profession, so should superheroes.

Iron Man also worked very hard to ensure that the government would not outlaw all superheroes and retrofit Sentinels to take down all metas, not just mutants.

Where Iron Man's argument completely fell apart was where he started imprisoning his friends in the Negative Zone without any rights. Cloning Thor wasn't a good idea either. And of course, how he pressured Spider-Man to reveal his identity and unmask on national television (something that even Iron Man admitted was a tactical mistake and was wrong in general) But everywhere else he was in the right.

Captain America was just wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

/thread.

 

[Superhero 101]

Captain America Cuz he is always right

 

[Scourge2099]

I'm going with the pro reg side. I get what Cap is saying , but the heroes need to be held accountable for their actions just like an cop , firefighter , soldier , Marine , etc is. Heroes should be no different.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I thought Civil War was a very interesting story, wasn't perfect but it did inject lots of new life into the Marvel universe, i dont think anyone can deny that. The problem was that both Cap and Tony acted irrationally. Tony meant well, he just wanted people to feel safer and for heroes to be held accountable for their actions, but he just got too involved with SHRA and lost focus and starting betraying his friends.

But Cap was also wrong. Instead of hearing Tony out and listening to his ideas and coming to a compromise, he completely flipped out and just straight up rebelled against Tony from the start. He refused to listen to reason and chose to fight for the sake of fighting which pretty much goes against Cap's core principle. Tony kept trying to get Cap to hear him out but he was too arrogant in his beliefs. Basically, Civil War could have easily been avoided if both parties had cooler heads.

Civil War's biggest crime was how they completely screwed up Captain America's character. Cap would always listen to logic and reason before going all out into battle.

Civil War should have never happened because after the incident with Maria Hill, he would have gone up to Tony Stark. I think the conversation would have gone like this:

Tony: Don't worry about Hill, she'll be gone soon.

Steve: Why?

Tony: Because I plan on taking over S.H.I.E.L.D. anyways and she'll be long gone. I know that someone being able to steal the identities of heroes like Spider-Man is a serious concern and I intend to personally safeguard them.

And Steve, I'd like you to run S.H.I.E.L.D. with me. While we need to be held accountable, the entire purpose of my actions is to ensure that we are not being unfairly persecuted by the government and that the government does not abuse their powers. I need someone like you to be our moral compass.

Steve: Sure thing pal!

* Tony and Steve then have an awesomely bromantic night together. Iron Man and Captain America become Co-Directors of S.H.I.E.L.D while Maria Hill is relieved of duty for her incompetent management of S.H.I.E.L.D. Iron Man keeps S.H.I.E.L.D. running like a well oiled machine while Captain America ensures that they don't do **** like having an illegal prison in the Negative Zone without rights or filling the Thunderbolts up with psychotic supervillains.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I was rooting for anti-registration based on characters but I honestly agree with Pro-registration as an idea.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Civil War's biggest crime was how they completely screwed up Captain America's character. Cap would always listen to logic and reason before going all out into battle.

Civil War should have never happened because after the incident with Maria Hill, he would have gone up to Tony Stark. I think the conversation would have gone like this:

Tony: Don't worry about Hill, she'll be gone soon.

Steve: Why?

Tony: Because I plan on taking over S.H.I.E.L.D. anyways and she'll be long gone. I know that someone being able to steal the identities of heroes like Spider-Man is a serious concern and I intend to personally safeguard them.

And Steve, I'd like you to run S.H.I.E.L.D. with me. While we need to be held accountable, the entire purpose of my actions is to ensure that we are not being unfairly persecuted by the government and that the government does not abuse their powers. I need someone like you to be our moral compass.

Steve: Sure thing pal!

* Tony and Steve then have an awesomely bromantic night together. Iron Man and Captain America become Co-Directors of S.H.I.E.L.D while Maria Hill is relieved of duty for her incompetent management of S.H.I.E.L.D. Iron Man keeps S.H.I.E.L.D. running like a well oiled machine while Captain America ensures that they don't do **** like having an illegal prison in the Negative Zone without rights or filling the Thunderbolts up with psychotic supervillains.

I doubt it would've happened quite that way. Cap was mainly against the compulsory nature of registration. Note how he basically supports the Initiative's goal of training young heroes by okaying Giant-Man's establishment of Avengers Academy to do exactly that same thing. The key difference is that young heroes were required to join the Initiative, even if they didn't even want to use their powers, whereas Avengers Academy is entirely voluntary.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I doubt it would've happened quite that way. Cap was mainly against the compulsory nature of registration. Note how he basically supports the Initiative's goal of training young heroes by okaying Giant-Man's establishment of Avengers Academy to do exactly that same thing. The key difference is that young heroes were required to join the Initiative, even if they didn't even want to use their powers, whereas Avengers Academy is entirely voluntary.

Don't really seem to have a problem with that. Children are required to go to school. Why can't young superheroes be required to do the same thing? People are required to be licensed and trained for many professions. Why can't they require the same for superheroes?

This is why Cap's position is totally in the wrong. Requiring training and registration is perfectly reasonable. If you don't want to register, don't be a superhero. The end.

 

[kguillou]

But see, where the registration act got a little too shady was that, literally, in order o use your powers, you HAD to be registered. That meant that if one day Peter Parker is at the grocery store and doctor octopus was attacking and there were no "registered" heroes around, Peter is legally not allowed to suit up and use his powers to save people and stop Doc Ock. That was one of the big issues of the Act, there were lots of gray areas that it didn't really take into account. Cap and all the anti-reg heroes believed being a superhero was a voluntary duty, that they didnt need badges or salaries to determine when to be superheroes. They were superheroes because they wanted to be. And they're not wrong in that line of thinking.

But again, Cap went about it all wrong and he failed to see what Tony was just trying to make people safer at the end of the day. But again, both sides were deeply flawed and they could've and should've came together and come up with a common solution.

 

[hippie_hunter]

But see, where the registration act got a little too shady was that, literally, in order o use your powers, you HAD to be registered.

Actually Marvel was very inconsistent in regards to how the Superhuman Registration Act applied.

For example She-Hulk's position was that she opposed the Mutant Registration Act because mutant registration was mandatory while she supported the Superhuman Registration Act because you only had to register if you wanted to be a superhero. Meanwhile in Avengers: The Initiative, the Initiative forced Cloud 9 to register simply because she had superpowers.

That meant that if one day Peter Parker is at the grocery store and doctor octopus was attacking and there were no "registered" heroes around, Peter is legally not allowed to suit up and use his powers to save people and stop Doc Ock. That was one of the big issues of the Act, there were lots of gray areas that it didn't really take into account. Cap and all the anti-reg heroes believed being a superhero was a voluntary duty, that they didnt need badges or salaries to determine when to be superheroes. They were superheroes because they wanted to be. And they're not wrong in that line of thinking.

Ummmm.....yes they were. Let's use your Spider-Man example. Let's say that Peter dresses up to stop Doc Ock and then because of Peter's actions, someone gets killed. It's the same thing that the only people who should be performing CPR are those who are certified in CPR.

But again, Cap went about it all wrong and he failed to see what Tony was just trying to make people safer at the end of the day. But again, both sides were deeply flawed and they could've and should've came together and come up with a common solution.

A common solution would have been easy to do considering how Tony was ensuring that he, Reed Richards, and Hank Pym were in charge of the whole thing. He most certainly would have included Captain America into his inner circle. They would have ensured that the whole thing was run by people that they trusted and not shady bureaucrats.

 

[CConn]

Don't really seem to have a problem with that. Children are required to go to school. Why can't young superheroes be required to do the same thing? People are required to be licensed and trained for many professions. Why can't they require the same for superheroes?

This is why Cap's position is totally in the wrong. Requiring training and registration is perfectly reasonable. If you don't want to register, don't be a superhero. The end.

I think Marvel attempted to create a parallel between superhero registration and mutant registration.

And they failed miserably.

That's why Civil War is an awful story.

 

[Anubis]

That and everybody being written out of Character. Richards would never have been pro reg. Guy took over a f**king country a year before that.