Classify My Political Stance

[Joker]

I am going to give you a list of my feelings on the issues of the day. I'm going to let you judge where I fall, politically, as really, I can't tell anymore.

Abortion- All for it. Mandatory abortions! Anything that makes it so there's less of you people around, the better.

The Middle East- As long as it doesn't personally effect me, they can take over the entire area and force everyone to wear duck outfits and worship Bugs Bunny. As long as my gas prices start to drop, that is.

Healthcare- Universal healthcare, so I don't have to buy insurance when I'm out of college and not covered under my parents plan.

Religion- Why is it that some people who say they talk to god get there own tv shows and millions of dollars, but others who say they talk to god, and he told them to oh, I dont know, pull out his member on a carousel or hack up his family with a rusty machete, get put into mental homes? Ban it, as it's just a system of control that breeds ignorance and insanity. All of it.

Immigration- Let them all in. I'm not going to clean toilets, and if they want to do it for minimum wage, let them. They're the best we have until we get those robots that the Jetsons promised us.

AIDS- Put all people with aids into one state, and don't allow them to leave. Move everyone else out of said state. No more aids problem.

So...other than a selfish d**k, what am I?

 

[rdh007]

I believe you just founded the National Narcissists Party. ("We'd love to help, but we're busy and can't work together anyway")

 

[cyborg ninja 14]

Religion- Why is it that some people who say they talk to god get there own tv shows and millions of dollars, but others who say they talk to god, and he told them to oh, I dont know, pull out his member on a carousel or hack up his family with a rusty machete, get put into mental homes? Ban it, as it's just a system of control that breeds ignorance and insanity. All of it.

I believe in God, and go to church, but I'm not religious!zomg paradox!

Translation: How religious people should be.

 

[Joker]

I believe you just founded the National Narcissists Party. ("We'd love to help, but we're busy and can't work together anyway")

That would have been a good idea if I had came up with it.

 

[StorminNorman]

Since I believe my beliefs are better than yours anyway - instead of addressing and classifying yours, why not state my own?

Abortion: I am very pro-choice. I simply believe that abortion creates two victims (a child growing up in a bad environment and a mother who has to live with the knowledge of it) than abortion that creates a mother who has to live with guilt. Its a simple numbers game to me.

The Middle East- I wish I was ignorant or naive enough to have an isolationist view on the Middle East. Since I am cursed, however, with a decent understand of how the world goes round I am forced to worry about it. I believe the best way to tame the Middle East (a place that does need to tame) is economics and education. I happen to be arrogant enough to believe western culture is more civilized than current Islamic culture and nothing will convince me other wise. The more westernize we can make the Middle East in terms of economy, culture and education - the better off we are.

I think we should not be above military action in Iran - though I think the best choice of action is allowing the youth to gain control. I would have no problem with America helping that along, however, with agreement from the next generation.

I believe we should stay in Iraq long enough to stabilize it - though the Iraqi Government must be held accountable. A classified list of mandates already be in place between the two governments. If those are not met, then we must start taking action in our interest.

Healthcare- I am firmly opposed to any step towards European Socialized Healthcare.

Religion- I firmly support everyone's freedom to religion - though I do fear that Christianity is unfairly targeted simply because it is in the majority. If religion is the only valid reason for public policy, then there is no valid reason and it should be removed. Gay Marriage bans, yea - thats you.

Immigration- I have no problem increasing the amount of legal immigrants entering America. I have no problem with worker programs. I have no problem with Jose Public crossing over to work - I could care less. My immigration fears are purely defense motivated. If anyone can cross the boarder - that means people that are not Jose Public will do so and I have a serious problem with that. We should know who is entering our country, period.

AIDS- Personally I think we should remove some of our AIDS funding in Africa and move it domestically. I believe most foreign funding should be revoked. The point of investing billions to tend to the homeless, starving and disease riddled in other countries with us facing those same problems. Thats the UN's job - or should be.

Death Penalty - Two Words: Electric Bleacher.

 

[Cmill216]

Religion- Why is it that some people who say they talk to god get there own tv shows and millions of dollars, but others who say they talk to god, and he told them to oh, I dont know, pull out his member on a carousel or hack up his family with a rusty machete, get put into mental homes?

I think you just answered your own question.

 

[Joker]

I think you just answered your own question.

But what if God really told him to do it? What if they were possessed by demons? Or what if him exposing himself was a test of some sort? Who's to say that his God speaking is any less valid than Jerry Fallwells or Pat Robertsons?

 

[Joker]

Oh, and on the subject of death penalty: all criminals, no matter what the crime. I dont care if you're an 8 year old who just stole a candy bar, or even a priveliged white buisness man who's only crime was stealing billions of dollars from peoples retirement funds. If we start killing everyone for every crime, you'll see the crime rate in this country go down to almost zero over night.

 

[Cmill216]

But what if God really told him to do it? What if they were possessed by demons? Or what if him exposing himself was a test of some sort? Who's to say that his God speaking is any less valid than Jerry Fallwells or Pat Robertsons?

Well, not that I like either Falwell or Robertson, but they aren't going out and hacking families or committing acts of indecent exposure.

A criminal act is a criminal act. Televangelists aren't killing innocent people in the name of their god. Wackos like the ones you're alluding to can't be compared.

 

[Joker]

Well, not that I like either Falwell or Robertson, but they aren't going out and hacking families or committing acts of indecent exposure.

A criminal act is a criminal act. Televangelists aren't killing innocent people in the name of their god. Wackos like the ones you're alluding to can't be compared.

While not personaly killing anyone, Fallwell and Robertson, and many others, all advocate hate, and are most likely the cause of things like Matthew Sheppard happening. So I don't see a difference, at all. Hell, George W. Bush said that he talked to god about invading Iraq, so his god talks have led to the deaths of thousands. How is that better than any other whacko who hears voices?

 

[Cmill216]

While not personaly killing anyone, Fallwell and Robertson, and many others, all advocate hate, and are most likely the cause of things like Matthew Sheppard happening.

Matthew Sheppard-like incidents happen because there are sick, intolerant SOBs in the world who will take another man's life simply because of their race or sexual orientation. But you can't blame Falwell or Robertson for that ish. That's the same logic behind blaming Marilyn Manson for Columbine.

Hell, George W. Bush said that he talked to god about invading Iraq, so his god talks have led to the deaths of thousands.

I'm pretty sure we didn't go into Iraq because Bush had a heart to heart with Jesus.

 

[Joker]

The difference between Falwell/Robertson/Others and Marilyn Manson is that Manson never once said "you should go shoot up your school," while the others have said things that may as well be "yeah, you should go kill these heathens...9/11 was there fault." And yeah, I'm sure that's not why George W. went into Iraq, but it's one of the reasons he gave about it.

 

[StorminNorman]

The difference between Falwell/Robertson/Others and Marilyn Manson is that Manson never once said "you should go shoot up your school," while the others have said things that may as well be "yeah, you should go kill these heathens...9/11 was there fault." And yeah, I'm sure that's not why George W. went into Iraq, but it's one of the reasons he gave about it.

If a President believes in a spiritual leader - I hope he prays to said leader before he makes any decision as large as the invasion of a country knowingly putting thousands in harms way.

Also - if you can point to a single example where Falwell/Robertson/etc. has said "go kill ____" your point is valid. Since you can not, your point is not.

 

[Joker]

I said "essentially." No one can argue the fact that they spout militant hate speech. Hell, look at those Westboro tools for an even worse example of it. And any leader who runs a country based on what the voices in his head tell him should be thrown out of office.

 

[SuBe]

Since I believe my beliefs are better than yours anyway - instead of addressing and classifying yours, why not state my own?

Abortion: I am very pro-choice. I simply believe that abortion creates two victims (a child growing up in a bad environment and a mother who has to live with the knowledge of it) than abortion that creates a mother who has to live with guilt. Its a simple numbers game to me.

The Middle East- I wish I was ignorant or naive enough to have an isolationist view on the Middle East. Since I am cursed, however, with a decent understand of how the world goes round I am forced to worry about it. I believe the best way to tame the Middle East (a place that does need to tame) is economics and education. I happen to be arrogant enough to believe western culture is more civilized than current Islamic culture and nothing will convince me other wise. The more westernize we can make the Middle East in terms of economy, culture and education - the better off we are.

I think we should not be above military action in Iran - though I think the best choice of action is allowing the youth to gain control. I would have no problem with America helping that along, however, with agreement from the next generation.

I believe we should stay in Iraq long enough to stabilize it - though the Iraqi Government must be held accountable. A classified list of mandates already be in place between the two governments. If those are not met, then we must start taking action in our interest.

Healthcare- I am firmly opposed to any step towards European Socialized Healthcare.

Religion- I firmly support everyone's freedom to religion - though I do fear that Christianity is unfairly targeted simply because it is in the majority. If religion is the only valid reason for public policy, then there is no valid reason and it should be removed. Gay Marriage bans, yea - thats you.

Immigration- I have no problem increasing the amount of legal immigrants entering America. I have no problem with worker programs. I have no problem with Jose Public crossing over to work - I could care less. My immigration fears are purely defense motivated. If anyone can cross the boarder - that means people that are not Jose Public will do so and I have a serious problem with that. We should know who is entering our country, period.

AIDS- Personally I think we should remove some of our AIDS funding in Africa and move it domestically. I believe most foreign funding should be revoked. The point of investing billions to tend to the homeless, starving and disease riddled in other countries with us facing those same problems. Thats the UN's job - or should be.

Death Penalty - Two Words: Electric Bleacher.

for the most part. Illegal Aliens create a drain on our economy that is estimated at $380 Billion a year. More a year than the War on Terror.

 

[The Chairman]

My views:

Abortion - I'm pro-choice fro the exact same reason StormNorm is. (I hope you don't mind I called you StormNorm). Norman's reasons were darn near perfect. I am, however, opposed to late term abortions, simply because I feel it's truly murder. I amn on the fence, however, if it should be the overnment or state who sould have the right to do away with it.

The Middle East - we should be invovled, yes, as there are defnitely factions there that are a threat. But that doesn't give us the right for us to go in their and completely westernize their citizens. While we could provide certain needs to them (education, for example), to go in their and totally perform a complete overhaul on their culture is something I find totally arrogant and this disagree with.

Healthcare - I honestly have no idea whatsoever. i'm just going to be the ignorant, dreamer liberal I am and say I woleheartedly support Obama's plan for universal healthcare.

Religion - A very touchy issue for me, as a practicing Catholic an deeply spiritual individual. I think we need to do away with organized religion. I'm totally cool with churches, cynagogues, msoques and other houes of worship, as well as religious schools. But when we have special interest groups banding together to advocate a religious influence on the government (thus wrongly robbing groups such as homosexuals of their rights), fanatics who abuse their rights by promoting hate speech on tv channels, and world leaders with disgusting amounts of powers heading up these religions thus sparking out public outcry as well as wars, then we've done soemthing wrong. Religion should not extend beyond private relgious organizations. We should definitely keep In God We Trust on the our currency, and kids should still be allowed pray when they feel like prviately in school, and Christmas should no doubt be acknowledged publicly, but it should have no influence on our government or our legal system.

Immigration- I'm torn on this one. I definitely can see why so many people are immigrating here and can sympathize with their plight (such as the Mexicans), but I also worry about how it would effect employment for citizens here and as Norm said, we have to worry about this on a defense level.

AIDS - Norm pretty much summed up my thoughts.

Death Penatly - Another tocuhy issue. It would depend on the case for me.

 

[rdh007]

Matthew Sheppard-like incidents happen because there are sick, intolerant SOBs in the world who will take another man's life simply because of their race or sexual orientation. But you can't blame Falwell or Robertson for that ish. That's the same logic behind blaming Marilyn Manson for Columbine.



I'm pretty sure we didn't go into Iraq because Bush had a heart to heart with Jesus.

Except that Falwell and Robertson are men of the cloth (or polyester) and that is a lot more powerful than a musician.

Also, I think that while Bush's reasons may have had more to do with finishing his old man's war properly, oil, and simple misguided beliefs regarding war in general and the Middle East in particular; he and his people also saw this (though not consciously) as part of a larger crusade (I use that term on purpose) to do God's bidding in spreading Christianity to the unknowing heathens.

 

[Cmill216]

Except that Falwell and Robertson are men of the cloth (or polyester) and that is a lot more powerful than a musician.

Falwell and Robertson aren't going around telling people to kill homosexuals, so the point is really invalid. Same with somebody like Manson. So I don't really see the comparison between those dudes saying their piece in the name of their God versus dudes killing and committing crimes in the name of theirs.

And even if cats like Falwell come out and state, "I don't like teh gayz!" and some dude goes out in anger and kills a homosexual, you can't "blame" some televangelist for someone else's ignorance and intolerance. That's their choice to interpret the message in whatever screwed up, demented way they choose.

 

[SuBe]

And even if cats like Falwell come out and state, "I don't like teh gayz!" and some dude goes out in anger and kills a homosexual, you can't "blame" some televangelist for someone else's ignorance and intolerance. That's their choice to interpret the message in whatever screwed up, demented way they choose.

While I agree with you on it's a personal responsibility issue, but think of it like this:

Even if Hitler didn't throw the switch in the gas chamber, is he not more responsible for the deaths of 6,000,000 people?

 

[The Chairman]

But didn't Hitler specifically order them to do it?

 

[Cmill216]

Even if Hitler didn't throw the switch in the gas chamber, is he not more responsible for the deaths of 6,000,000 people?

But here we go, again, though: we can't compare Hitler to televangelists, man. It's not the same ballpark, not the same league.

We're talking about the most vile dictator of our time, versus some dudes who get on TV and preach their beliefs to those willing to hear them. They aren't telling people to go out and kill in the name of God. They're not advocating violence against "sinners". It's a case of nutjobs who warp these messages and turn around and commit crimes under the umbrella of their 'beliefs'. But again, you can't blame these preachers for that ish.

 

[SuBe]

But didn't Hitler specifically order them to do it?

Could they not have? That is the problem with your statment, they individuals that could kill people because they think they were told to by some religous leader to do so. Think of it like this: Hilter's Nazi Germany was extremely Fascist, and in doing so, means strong military. They Military would follow orders because they might be killed for not following them. A religous person is mostly religous due to the promise of everlasting life after death, if they do not follow the teachings of a religous leader, they may lose out on everlasting life after death. How is it any different? Die for not following orders, or not losing Heaven for not following what is interperetted as orders?

 

[SuBe]

But here we go, again, though: we can't compare Hitler to televangelists, man. It's not the same ballpark, not the same league.

We're talking about the most vile dictator of our time, versus some dudes who get on TV and preach their beliefs to those willing to hear them. They aren't telling people to go out and kill in the name of God. They're not advocating violence against "sinners". It's a case of nutjobs who warp these messages and turn around and commit crimes under the umbrella of their 'beliefs'. But again, you can't blame these preachers for that ish.

I could use any Fascist, from Mussolini to The Covenant from Halo. If Following Orders are just Following orders, there is a reason for following them, whether fear of death or fear of hell, same thing.

And, I'm just playing devil's advocate.

 

[Cmill216]

I could use any Fascist, from Mussolini to The Covenant from Halo. If Following Orders are just Following orders, there is a reason for following them, whether fear of death or fear of hell, same thing.

Ah, but here's the catch: no one's tying a religious follower down to a chair and telling them that they have to follow Preacher #2.

If I don't agree with Preacher #2's beliefs and teachings, then I move on to another religious leader who's teachings are more in line with what I value. It's that simple. If Preacher #2 is speaking against homosexuality, saying that it's a sin and that those individuals are a "plague against the Earth and are going to hell" and I go out and kill a homosexual after hearing this, who's really to blame for my actions?

Answer: Me.

Fear of god, fear of hell means nothing when it comes to following a specific religious leader. There's no contract binding you to listen to whatever they tell you to do. That's why I say you can't compare them to a dictator like Hitler.

 

[SuBe]

I complete understand what you mean. But, it is up to the mind of the individual, some are just crazy, and accept these things as orders. People are more like sheep than what we believe.

Don't get me wrong, I'm playing Devil's Advocate. I always side on the individual, but it that is the other argument.