Cosplayer called 'racist' for dressing as black character

[SlamAdams]

I'm inclined to let this one slide because she is German and is a makeup artist who is probably trying to learn and experiment with her skill. Is it problematic? Yes. But come on, bounds of reason: we all know she didn't mean anything negative with it.

But the other bounds of reason, some people are sensitive to race issues for good reasons. I don't think she's actually racist, but I don't think people are being unreasonably offended. (Its the internet so I'm sure there are plenty of over-corrected responses full of bile, but the conceit that people shouldn't be generally offended by this, I disagree with)

 

[Schlosser85]

What if a black cosplayer made themselves look white? Would anyone have anything to say then?

 

[Teelie]

No, what I am saying is that "whiteface" will never be racist.

That's telling. So mocking another race is only racist when the people doing it are doing it against white people and are not themselves white.

 

[SlamAdams]

What if a black cosplayer made themselves look white? Would anyone have anything to say then?

I wouldn't. Whiteface doesn't have the same historical context that blackface does.

 

[SlamAdams]

That's telling. So mocking another race is only racist when the people doing it are doing it against white people and are not themselves white.

No, that's the opposite of what I said.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

What if a black cosplayer made themselves look white? Would anyone have anything to say then?

That's something to appreciate and applause for.

 

[Teelie]

What if a black cosplayer made themselves look white? Would anyone have anything to say then?

I wouldn't, but I don't in this case either. It should be looked at as intent first. Would it be offensive? It depends on the context. Cosplaying in context is not racist. It might be offensive but I would not call genuine cosplay racist.

Being offended ≠ racist.

 

[Teelie]

No, that's the opposite of what I said.

It may be not what you intended. What you said was whiteface can't be seen as racist. What that means is it's never racist to mock a white person in white face if you are anything but white.

 

[Superman Earth1]

I just walked into Patty's Pub didn't I?

Oh well lets watch Lethal Weapon 5 & 6.

 

[SlamAdams]

It may be not what you intended. What you said was whiteface can't be seen as racist. What that means is it's never racist to mock a white person in white face if you are anything but white.

Yes, that's what I meant. And not what you previously stated. You might want to re-read:

"So mocking another race is only racist when the people doing it are doing it against white people and are not themselves white."

 

[Teelie]

I don't think you get what I mean and I don't see a point in going in circles over it.

This is how I see it. Blackface, yellowface, whiteface, redface [insert race]face is racist. That's intent on mocking or denigrating another race.

Wearing makeup to appear as another race is not necessarily racist though. The cosplayer in this instance was not racist even if she was offensive to some people. What she did wasn't blackface even if it resembled it.

Intent and context should matter, even if it still offends people.

 

[SuperFerret]

Whiteface isn't racist. It's seen almost universally as a joke, albeit a bad joke.

Blackface (and "yellowface" and the like) call back to a time when the people that these caricatures are meant to represent where seen as jokes at best.

Whiteface doesn't come from the same place as the others. It cannot remotely be equivalent.

 

[Teelie]

I don't even know how I got sucked into arguing this when my original point wasn't even about that.

 

[Feenix]

So...does intent not play into this at all?

If her intent was to put on a "black face" and mock black people, then yes, that is racist.

However, if her intent was to look like one of her favourite characters from a television show (which it looks like this is), then how could it possibly be racist? Isn't it more flattering? She took the time to make herself look black so she would look more like the character. I would find it worse if she didn't bother with the makeup and wore just the outfit and made the character white.

 

[SlamAdams]

I don't think you get what I mean and I don't see a point in going in circles over it.

I don't think you are reading what I am saying. I think you are missing the typo in one of your posts. You said: "So mocking another race is only racist when the people doing it are doing it against white people and are not themselves white." Which is the opposite of what I said, and based on your previous posts, I'm guessing you meant the opposite as well.

This is how I see it. Blackface, yellowface, whiteface, redface [insert race]face is racist. That's intent on mocking or denigrating another race.

Except as a white person, I never have to worry ever about the color of my skin. The color of my skin is trivial to me, so whiteface doesn't bother me and probably doesn't bother most white people. So I don't think its racism. "Isms" are usually about a majority trying to keep down a minority.

Wearing makeup to appear as another race is not necessarily racist though. The cosplayer in this instance was not racist even if she was offensive to some people. What she did wasn't blackface even if it resembled it.

Intent and context should matter, even if it still offends people.

What about the intent and context of the offended people? She did something made popular by racists, something that has a historically racist connotation, and people, who have probably dealt with racism on at least a semi-regular basis , got offended and called her a racist. I don't think THEY did anything wrong. They might be incorrect about her intention, but this is an issue that they are sensitive too. I don't see the reason behind caring more about the feelings of a girl playing with makeup on social media than people who don't think their skin color is trivial.

And it's not just about race. You need to be responsible for some self-awareness. For Halloween, someone wants to go as a WWII soldier. Should they go as one of the Allies or one of the Nazis? You think people will brush of the Nazis just as easily as an Allied soldier? I doubt it.

 

[the last son]

As a black man I didn't find this racist. Stupid sure, but her intent was not to offend no matter what country she's from. She just wanted to look like her favorite character. I'm going as Edward Scissorhands for halloween and my face will be painted in all white.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I don't think you get what I mean and I don't see a point in going in circles over it.

This is how I see it. Blackface, yellowface, whiteface, redface [insert race]face is racist. That's intent on mocking or denigrating another race.

Wearing makeup to appear as another race is not necessarily racist though. The cosplayer in this instance was not racist even if she was offensive to some people. What she did wasn't blackface even if it resembled it.

Intent and context should matter, even if it still offends people.

Black face wouldn't even be that offensive without the whole slavery/Jim Crow/lynchings/white supremacy incident from back in the day.

So not all mockery has the same implications. Let's not throw out the baby (all racial humor) with the bath water (historically insensitive humor).

There's nothing wrong with going through the process of deciding which humor is appropriate and what goes too far. It's a knee jerk response to say these few cases are bad so lets do away with this altogether.

It's dangerous to say political correctness is always necessary or political correctness is always unnecessary. The truth sometimes falls on the opposing side.

 

[SlamAdams]

As a back man I didn't find this racist. Stupid sure, but her intent was not to offend no matter what country she's from. She just wanted to look like her favorite character. I'm going as Edward Scissorhands for halloween and my face will be painted in all white.

Well, so was Johnny Depp's.

 

[the last son]

It's all about intent though. I found Downey Jr to be 10x more racist.

 

[Teelie]

And it's not just about race. You need to be responsible for some self-awareness. For Halloween, someone wants to go as a WWII soldier. Should they go as one of the Allies or one of the Nazis? You think people will brush of the Nazis just as easily as an Allied soldier? I doubt it.

All of that up there and you forget the intent and context. To top it off, dressing as a Nazi isn't racist, it's just outright offensive to most people.

And what we now call blackface was not inherently racist originally (it goes back a long, long ways in origin to depicting people in serious plays, not as jokes). Although it became racist much like the swastika, it's original purpose was co-opted into an offensive purpose and now will forever be tainted by it.

 

[SlamAdams]

All of that up there and you forget the intent and context.

How so?

To top it off, dressing as a Nazi isn't racist, it's just outright offensive to most people.

Hence why I said it's not all about race. I haven't called the girl racist, I'm defending people for believing she might be. I don't think they necessarily did anything wrong or should be looked down upon for being sensitive about how people perceive their race.

 

[SlamAdams]

And blackface was not inherently racist originally. Although it became racist, much like the swastika, it's original purpose was co-opted into an offensive purpose and now will forever be tainted by it.

lol how so

 

[SuperT]

However, if her intent was to look like one of her favourite characters from a television show (which it looks like this is), then how could it possibly be racist? Isn't it more flattering? She took the time to make herself look black so she would look more like the character. I would find it worse if she didn't bother with the makeup and wore just the outfit and made the character white.

Yes, as an African-American, there's nothing more flattering than black-face.

This woman may not have had racist intent but she's damn sure ignorant no matter what country she's from.

 

[SuperFerret]

I think that Tropic Thunder's blackface worked because of how self-referential it was (lampooning Hollywood's tendency to whitewash things by having the in-universe studio cast a white actor as the most prominent black role) and that it was picked apart throughout the movie.

 

[Teelie]

lol how so

I clarified in my previous post but I'll reiterate it here. It used to be done in plays and the like to depict people of other races or as supernatural beings. Wearing full-face makeup is not something that suddenly happened during the late 1800's and it was not always intended to be denigrating.