Costumes! Discuss them Here!

[The Guard]

Yeah, you're right. It should have a more home-made feel to it.

Why?

The man built a sophisticated Owl hovership. He can't build a suit?

 

[Headless Knight]

Why?

The man built a sophisticated Owl hovership. He can't build a suit?

The real question is would he?

Is there any reason for it to appear so high-tech? It's elaborated for the sake of elaboration.

 

[Mr.Clay]

Is there any reason for it to appear so high-tech? It's elaborated for the sake of elaboration.

i completely agree. it's overdone, and as i said before, could have been done better. its just overkill

 

[Sandman138]

the scar, the gun, his wide-eyes and the big grin made him look like a violent psyhopath. The mask made him look like he wanted to get whiped

Think about the progression. He went from a guy in a bright yellow jumpsuit with a face of comedy belt buckle, to a soldier of fortune in Vietnam, and then finally to a freak in a gimp mask who enjoyed shooting crowds of people with rubber bullets and tear gas. Now think about what that says about the character archetype he was based on.

 

[The Guard]

The real question is would he?

Would he what? Build a suit that doesn't look cheap?

Is there any reason for it to appear so high-tech? It's elaborated for the sake of elaboration.

Gotta be honest...I don't think he looks that high tech. I think he looks fairly modern and his costume is WAY overdone, and I think that was intentional, and a commentary on modern superhero designs.

 

[cerealkiller182]

Think about the progression. He went from a guy in a bright yellow jumpsuit with a face of comedy belt buckle, to a soldier of fortune in Vietnam, and then finally to a freak in a gimp mask who enjoyed shooting crowds of people with rubber bullets and tear gas. Now think about what that says about the character archetype he was based on.

Yeah, i understand the character but hes not defined by his mask hes defined by his actions. Shooting crowds of people seemed like a better representation of his psychotic behavior rather than the fact he wore a stupid looking mask for like 3 pages or so.

 

[Mr.Clay]

Would he what? Build a suit that doesn't look cheap?

Page before this one, 4th post down is my big long post on how a Nite Owl design that looks like the comic design could be made that would be far better than the one presented with and still look completely believable and not cheap.

a commentary on modern superhero designs

It's not necessary though. Plus modern superhero designs are really the result of an evolution since Batman '89. Dan makes his suit in 1966, and since comics still exist in Watchmen world, Dan only has his fellow heroes and early comics for inspiration. See, if we're to believe he made his own suit, there should be something about it that in a way harks back to past heroes in its design. But it's so radically different from anyone else, and it just straight up looks like a design team made it this year. It's got too much Dark Knight in it.

 

[The Guard]

Page before this one, 4th post down is my big long post on how a Nite Owl design that looks like the comic design could be made that would be far better than the one presented with and still look completely believable and not cheap.

I don't know what to tell you. The suit isn't a direct translation of the rather generic looking "Batman Owlsuit". And where was the suit ever depicted as being outright "homemade" in WATCHMEN?

It's not necessary though.

It's not neccessary for the costumes in a movie that serves as a commentary on superheroes to comment on superhero costumes?

Ok...

Plus modern superhero designs are really the result of an evolution since Batman '89. Dan makes his suit in 1966, and since comics still exist in Watchmen world, Dan only has his fellow heroes and early comics for inspiration. See, if we're to believe he made his own suit, there should be something about it that in a way harks back to past heroes in its design. But it's so radically different from anyone else, and it just straight up looks like a design team made it

Now wait a minute. Dan makes his suit, and his high-tech Owlship, in a completely different world. What does the relative year have to do with anything?

This suit still clearly harkens back to the "generic" superhero suit concept, with it's base color scheme, belt, and different colored mask and cape, gloves, briefs and boots. And it still manages to "comment" on the more modern "overdesigned more techy superhero" concept. That's the strength of this design.

 

[Mr.Clay]

I don't know what to tell you. The suit isn't a direct translation of the rather generic looking "Batman Owlsuit". And where was the suit ever depicted as being outright "homemade" in WATCHMEN?

Again, it wouldn't look "generic" if it was approached the right way. As far as being homemade - he has a secret identity which he has to keep. Archie is far more advanced than the costume, and he made that himself, thus his costume is homemade.

It's not neccessary for the costumes in a movie that serves as a commentary on superheroes to comment on superhero costumes?

They don't have to TRY to is what I mean. Watchmen is already a commentary on all things superhero. It's going to do it anyway, no need to spoonfeed.

Now wait a minute. Dan makes his suit, and his high-tech Owlship, in a completely different world. What does the relative year have to do with anything?

Uhhh, the fact that the relative year has everything to do with everything else in the movie. This is a period movie, despite that it's an alternate timeline. There are still commies, still Nixon, etc. Therefore design choices of the era should still apply

 

[The Guard]

Again, it wouldn't look "generic" if it was approached the right way. As far as being homemade - he has a secret identity which he has to keep. Archie is far more advanced than the costume, and he made that himself, thus his costume is homemade.

If it's approached in a way where the visuals are faithful to the comics, it would definitely look "generic". Because the comic book design is based on a generic superhero concept. The base outfit, the belt, the colored gloves, briefs, boots, mask and cape.

If Archie is homemade, then why can't the costume he's wearing now be considered homemade as well? You seem to imply homemade in a different context, so I'm just curious.

They don't have to TRY to is what I mean. Watchmen is already a commentary on all things superhero. It's going to do it anyway, no need to spoonfeed.

This isn't spoonfeeding. The costumes simply exist, I doubt there will be any dialogue about how overdesigned they are.

Uhhh, the fact that the relative year has everything to do with everything else in the movie. This is a period movie, despite that it's an alternate timeline. There are still commies, still Nixon, etc. Therefore design choices of the era should still apply.

You say "design choices of the era", but in the book, Dan looks more like something designed in the 40's than something out of the 60's, 70's or 80's.

Sure, it's a period movie, but it's not set in OUR world. It's set in an alternate reality, where new materials and approaches exist, thanks in part to Dr. Manhattan. Much of the suit, elements like the joint and neck ringlets and so forth, are somewhat science fiction oriented, and you could find those design elements as early as the 40's.

 

[The Battousai]

You say "design choices of the era", but in the book, Dan looks more like something designed in the 40's than something out of the 60's, 70's or 80's.

Sure, it's a period movie, but it's not set in OUR world. It's set in an alternate reality, where new materials and approaches exist, thanks in part to Dr. Manhattan. Much of the suit, elements like the joint and neck ringlets and so forth, are somewhat science fiction oriented, and you could find those design elements as early as the 40's.

Exactly - I don't know how this couldn't be more clear to anyone who's read the GN

 

[Mr.Clay]

Then why can't the costume he's wearing now be homemade as well? You seem to imply homemade in a different context.

Well, I guess I mean homemade in that it's only him doing it. It just screams DESIGN TEAM. It's just way too aesthetic looking. To believe this costume, I have to suspend my disbelief that he's an incredible scientist AND he's had incredible training as a visual artist and craftsman. As an artist myself, I can see how blatantly careful this was crafted by multiple people.

I doubt there will be any dialogue about how overdesigned they are.

I agree, all you need to do is look at it.

You say "design choices of the era", but Dan looks more like something out of the 40's than something out of the 70's or 80's. Sure, it's a period movie, but it's not set in OUR world. It's set in an alternate reality, where new materials and approaches exist, thanks in part to Dr. Manhattan. Much of the suit, elements like the joint and neck ringlets and so forth, seems to be science fiction oriented, and you could find those elements as early as the 40's.

You got me, there, I'll go with that

 

[The Guard]

Well, I guess I mean homemade in that it's only him doing it. It just screams DESIGN TEAM. It's just way too aesthetic looking. To believe this costume, I have to suspend my disbelief that he's an incredible scientist AND he's had incredible training as a visual artist and craftsman. As an artist myself, I can see how blatantly careful this was crafted by multiple people.

It's obviously been "designed", but so was his comic book suit. I refuse to believe that someone who could make or design or buy a high tech hovercraft couldn't come up with this comparatively simple design concept somehow. It looks like someone looked at an owl and tried to mimic the layered feathers and so forth.

Maybe he didn't make it on his own. Maybe Dr. Manhattan materialized it for him. Or who says he didn't pay someone to make it for him under the table? In the end, you're going to have to suspend your disbelief regardless of what the costume looks like. If it looks too constructed, you'll have to believe he made it. If it looks too simple, you'll have to believe a man with a lot of money would settle for that design.

I mean, the first time I saw his comic book outfit it screamed "Obvious attempt to ape Batman's concept". But I never worried about whether or not Dan spent nights up sewing the costume together or anything like that. I don't see how that's relevant to the use of the costume anyway.

 

[Mr.Clay]

I see what you're saying. The "too constructed/simple" thing is actually a good point. Still though, I believe that it could've been met halfway and been much more successful. And while I do agree science was obviously easier to come by due to Dr. Manhattan, Dr. Manhattan should not be used too much to explain whatever isn't easy to explain. He runs the risk of becoming a deus ex machina, although he kind of is anyway. Regardless, the movie shouldn't use him as a crutch

 

[Noir]

Well, I guess I mean homemade in that it's only him doing it. It just screams DESIGN TEAM. It's just way too aesthetic looking. To believe this costume, I have to suspend my disbelief that he's an incredible scientist AND he's had incredible training as a visual artist and craftsman. As an artist myself, I can see how blatantly careful this was crafted by multiple people.

He BUILT AND DESIGNED A ****ING OWL HOVER-CRAFT, I believe he could design a chain-mail Owl-suit..
I just don't see him going:
"****, I just built this ship that hovers and is completely invisible to radar and looks like an Owl... But I'm sooo ****ing stuck on this owl-costume! Its perplexing how to design an armoured suit with pointy ears AND goggles!"

 

[Mr.Clay]

But I'm sooo ****ing stuck on this owl-costume!

LOL

That was awesome. Point taken

 

[The Guard]

I see what you're saying. The "too constructed/simple" thing is actually a good point. Still though, I believe that it could've been met halfway and been much more successful. And while I do agree science was obviously easier to come by due to Dr. Manhattan, Dr. Manhattan should not be used too much to explain whatever isn't easy to explain. He runs the risk of becoming a deus ex machina, although he kind of is anyway. Regardless, the movie shouldn't use him as a crutch

I don't see what's so difficult to explain about it. People seem to think that because there were not such "designs" in the 70's and 80's in our world that somehow this concept couldn't exist then or something. Armor existed then. So did jumpsuits, spacesuits, and all kinds of clothing. And again, science-fiction has been presenting concepts similar to some elements of his suit since the 40's. Is it really that much of a stretch to believe a loaded, ambitious person could come up with this?

There weren't high-tech owlships in the 80's, either. So he built a techy hovercraft-like owlship at some point, he built a techy superhero costume at some point. What, does he need to have goldfish in the boots because it was a certain era?

 

[Noir]

Yeah. I mean, I get the points you make but we really can't change them soo..

 

[StorminNorman]

The real question is would he?

Is there any reason for it to appear so high-tech? It's elaborated for the sake of elaboration.

Its an allegory about Batman movie costumes, especially Nolan's. Its a statement about how ridiculous the idea of a "realistic Superhero suit" is. Even if you create a suit that is "plausible" - like this one is - it is completely unrealistic. You can have all the gadgets (that you could have without the ridiculous animal motif), but in the end you can't be taken seriously because in the end you are still a walking nocturnal animal.

It is the spiritual twin of comic counterpart.

 

[The Guard]

I just don't understand what people wanted in terms of era-specific, short of spandex or cloth costumes with 1970's or 1980's styling worked into them.

 

[Prefix]

With the exception of Rorshach and Dr. Manhattan, its not like the costumes are so important to the characters anyway. Watchmen was a one shot story. Its not a case like Spider-Man where the costumes are as important as the character itself.

 

[Sandman138]

I see what you're saying. The "too constructed/simple" thing is actually a good point. Still though, I believe that it could've been met halfway and been much more successful. And while I do agree science was obviously easier to come by due to Dr. Manhattan, Dr. Manhattan should not be used too much to explain whatever isn't easy to explain. He runs the risk of becoming a deus ex machina, although he kind of is anyway. Regardless, the movie shouldn't use him as a crutch

But that is the point. Dr. Manhattan ushers in a new age. Just as the atomic bomb created atomic culture, Dr. Manhattan and his ability to manipulate atoms creates the world we see in Watchmen.

 

[Sandman138]

With the exception of Rorshach and Dr. Manhattan, its not like the costumes are so important to the characters anyway. Watchmen was a one shot story. Its not a case like Spider-Man where the costumes are as important as the character itself.

 

[Noir]

Is that baby Wilford Brimley?

 

[Carmine Falcone]

That baby is ****ing brilliant.