CD Projeckt Red Cyberpunk 2077

this gives me more time for Spider-Man Miles Morales. I'm also considering AC Valhalla, but I'm not 100% certain yet. I've been out of the Assassins Creed loop since III.
They are basically lesser versions of the Witcher now. Better games then they use to be imo, but also not all that Assassin's Creedy. Which is a plus imo.
 
Some CDPR exec: "What is a release date, anyways? Anyone know?"
 
It's comical at this point. These microdelays.

I don't care about the delay itself, I'm fine with the idea of "ready when it's ready". But it just feels they bit more than they could chew trying to deliver the game as a multigen title with the launch of the new consoles on top of it being their most ambitious project. Pretty sure their offices are in flames right now.
 
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That's good to know actually. I loved The Witcher 3, so I'd welcome it.
Same. You can see the transition starting with Origins, and it is complete in Odyssey. Valhalla looks like the Witcher 3, re-skinned and it's hilarious. :hehe:
 
This is from yesterday:

ElWaZhkU8AEZURI


:wall:
 
I'm sure the game is more polished than Avengers. The game has gone gold and it's in a playable state, gameplay/features and all.

I wonder if it's optimization issues with PS4/XB1. After all, we haven't seen any console footage yet... :sus

A near month delay after you start printing discs makes "playable state" highly dubious.


I'm just going to say that the crunch has not been beneficial to the game.
 
It's comical at this point. These microdelays.
So the game is definitely buggy as hell, and is suffering performance issues on the "current gen" machines most likely. IMO they are trying to get it running and patched well enough to send out to review in mid November.
 
A near month delay after you start printing discs makes "playable state" highly dubious.


I'm just going to say that the crunch has not been beneficial to the game.
6 weeks of mandatory extra day crunch isn't the end of the world. It's basically 6 extra days on the final push on the game that they were making for 5 years or so already.
Yeah, never assume these companies are telling the truth. I love CDPR's games. But they are as monstrous as EA, Rockstar, or Ubisoft are to their employees.
 
Yeah, never assume these companies are telling the truth. I love CDPR's games. But they are as monstrous as EA, Rockstar, or Ubisoft are to their employees.
I'm not taking it at face value. I'm more frustrated that it becomes a hot topic only when a new game is getting ready for a release. Nobody is grilling Rockstar while they're in the middle of development despite alleged permanent crunch in big studios. But as soon as some major game is getting closer to release, hype riders like Shreier is here to serve truth, justice and American way.

In the end, I don't think crunch is avoidable in big projects. They might as well close game studios or do only small projects with small risks, complexity and volume of work. Game development is just too unstable, with too much improvisation and iteration. It's not production of hamburgers if it aims to do something great. Thus, plans are constantly changing due to necessity of reworking or improving things. It's endless catch up process. And the closer the project to finishing line, the harder the pressure. And if some studio happens to minimize or avoid crunch, it's mostly by sheer luck. Because things just worked as intended from the first or second try. Or there's just no hard time constraints.
 
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I'm not taking it at face value. I'm more frustrated that it becomes a hot topic only when a new game is getting ready for a release. Nobody is grilling Rockstar while they're in the middle of development despite alleged permanent crunch in big studios. But as soon as some major game is getting closer to release, hype riders like Shreier is here to serve truth, justice and American way.

Once again, CDPR is in this **** PR situation because they promised no crunch. They lied. Horribly. At least Netherrealm put their money where their mouth was.
 
I'm not taking it at face value. I'm more frustrated that it becomes a hot topic only when a new game is getting ready for a release. Nobody is grilling Rockstar while they're in the middle of development despite alleged permanent crunch in big studios. But as soon as some major game is getting closer to release, hype riders like Shreier is here to serve truth, justice and American way.
Then you simply didn't follow those situation. Crunch has been a hot topic for years now, and the attention it gets has only been growing. Red Dead Redemption 2 was talked about a lot by Jason Schreier throughout it's development when he was at Kotaku. That came off the back of the reporting of GTAV being a killer to the workforce at Rockstar. Last of Us 2's crunch was brought up multiple times. In each case, fans of the studio cry about being singled out or that it only comes up at release. It's not true, at all. Witcher 3's crunch and the attention paid to it was a big topic in the community once former employees started talking about it.

All this is exactly why CDPR promised no crunch. Do you think the topic fell from the sky for no reason? That CDPR made that promise randomly? Of course not. That the crunch for Cyberpunk was a thing and going to be a thing came up months if not years ago.
 
Then you simply didn't follow those situation. Crunch has been a hot topic for years now, and the attention it gets has only been growing. Red Dead Redemption 2 was talked about a lot by Jason Schreier throughout it's development when he was at Kotaku. That came off the back of the reporting of GTAV being a killer to the workforce at Rockstar. Last of Us 2's crunch was brought up multiple times. In each case, fans of the studio cry about being singled out or that it only comes up at release. It's not true, at all. Witcher 3's crunch and the attention paid to it was a big topic in the community once former employees started talking about it.

All this is exactly why CDPR promised no crunch. Do you think the topic fell from the sky for no reason? That CDPR made that promise randomly? Of course not. That the crunch for Cyberpunk was a thing and going to be a thing came up months if not years ago.
CDPR also wanted to release the game half a year ago. And?
Once again, CDPR is in this **** PR situation because they promised no crunch. They lied. Horribly. At least Netherrealm put their money where their mouth was.
What action will you take against CDPR?
 
CDPR also wanted to release the game half a year ago. And?What action will you take against CDPR?
Your whataboutisms show a huge lack of good faith in these conversations. Your stance is to defend the company, and thus you ignore all facts and try to point the conversation in a different way to avoid the points being made. There is a name for posting like that.
 
Your whataboutisms show a huge lack of good faith in these conversations. Your stance is to defend the company, and thus you ignore all facts and try to point the conversation in a different way to avoid the points being made. There is a name for posting like that.
You're right. I don't have any faith in these conversations. I read about crunch in the games industry for past 20 years or so. And? It became a constant element to game development since the dawn of time. What should we do about it? Stop buying games to punish these evil studios? I'm not gonna do that. I didn't do it 20 years ago and I'm not gonna do it now. Will you?
 
You're right. I don't have any faith in these conversations. I read about crunch in the games industry for past 20 years or so. And? It became a constant element to game development since the dawn of time. What should we do about it? Stop buying games to punish these evil studios? I'm not gonna do that. I didn't do it 20 years ago and I'm not gonna do it now. Will you?
The more attention paid to it, which means the more people know about it, which results in pressure on game companies, and thus unionization or at the very least forced better working considerations in general. Look at Uber and Lyft freaking out about California and it's attempts to actually force them to do something about how they treat their drivers. This is literally how change happens.
 
The more attention paid to it, which means the more people know about it, which results in pressure on game companies, and thus unionization or at the very least forced better working considerations in general. Look at Uber and Lyft freaking out about California and it's attempts to actually force them to do something about how they treat their drivers. This is literally how change happens.
I believe it's less about working conditions, alleged slave driving, and more about the nature of game development. Which I don't think can be changed. People know about crunch for decades. It doesn't help the situation. And people throw around false promises like there won't be any crunch because they don't want bad PR. But the thing is - they don't know how to avoid crunch. Good example is Naughty Dog. After crunch on all of their previous games (and especially on their more recent and bigger projects), they've decided to improve things on TLOU2. Planned everything and initially it went fine for some time. But then, surprise, they had to rework large parts of the game, the project changed and there you go. Another catch up game. And it got so bad that people began to leave the company. Rare projects can afford unlimited deadlines. When even companies like Naughty Dog with Sony's money can't. Game development is bloody chaos. Especially on ambitious projects, that try to push things. They have my sympathy, I'm aware of it, but my awareness won't change anything.
 
So apparently some retailers already received their stock of this game. So anything CDPR do at this point would have to be a day one patch.
 
I believe it's less about working conditions, alleged slave driving, and more about the nature of game development. Which I don't think can be changed. People know about crunch for decades. It doesn't help the situation. And people throw around false promises like there won't be any crunch because they don't want bad PR. But the thing is - they don't know how to avoid crunch. Good example is Naughty Dog. After crunch on all of their previous games (and especially on their more recent and bigger projects), they've decided to improve things on TLOU2. Planned everything and initially it went fine for some time. But then, surprise, they had to rework large parts of the game, the project changed and there you go. Another catch up game. And it got so bad that people began to leave the company. Rare projects can afford unlimited deadlines. When even companies like Naughty Dog with Sony's money can't. Game development is bloody chaos. Especially on ambitious projects, that try to push things. They have my sympathy, I'm aware of it, but my awareness won't change anything.

Simple question: Are you for or against fixing this issue? Because organized labor is amazingly helpful in fighting against unsafe working conditions.

I refuse to believe that the industry "has to be this way". And these deadlines are only important to shareholders. Other creative industries do not necessarily have these issues, but it is rampant in tech.
 
Simple question: Are you for or against fixing this issue? Because organized labor is amazingly helpful in fighting against unsafe working conditions.
You're basically asking me "are you for people's suffering or against it?" What can I answer to that? I wish I knew how to fix this issue. Planning doesn't solve it. Because plans constantly change due to the nature of the industry. It's highly volatile.
I refuse to believe that the industry "has to be this way". And these deadlines are only important to shareholders. Other creative industries do not necessarily have these issues, but it is rampant in tech.
Why tech is so special in this case? Exactly because it's evolving quickly, it has to adapt quickly, it's costly and on top of that there's element of artistry and self expression that drives creatives. I don't know any way around that. It's more complex than shareholders.
 
Tech is special because it is largely run by libertarian ****heads who feel the rules don't apply to them.

Crunch is necessary in order to hit determined goals set by shareholders and upper management, whereas the ground level employee bears the damage of crunch, but never sees any of the benefits.

It has been clear for a while, that Western AAA game development is not sustainable.
 
I believe it's less about working conditions, alleged slave driving, and more about the nature of game development. Which I don't think can be changed. People know about crunch for decades. It doesn't help the situation. And people throw around false promises like there won't be any crunch because they don't want bad PR. But the thing is - they don't know how to avoid crunch. Good example is Naughty Dog. After crunch on all of their previous games (and especially on their more recent and bigger projects), they've decided to improve things on TLOU2. Planned everything and initially it went fine for some time. But then, surprise, they had to rework large parts of the game, the project changed and there you go. Another catch up game. And it got so bad that people began to leave the company. Rare projects can afford unlimited deadlines. When even companies like Naughty Dog with Sony's money can't. Game development is bloody chaos. Especially on ambitious projects, that try to push things. They have my sympathy, I'm aware of it, but my awareness won't change anything.
You have changed your argument on this at least 3 times, all in defense of inhuman treatment of human beings. Let's not forget that you are sitting here arguing that crunch is necessary after acting like it wasn't happening because they said it wasn't.

Crunch is more then avoidable. The issue is simply unrealistic release dates and workforces that are too small to accommodate. Cyberpunk 2077 could come out in it's current condition in a year, without crunch. Why is it a necessity?
 
You're basically asking me "are you for people's suffering or against it?" What can I answer to that? I wish I knew how to fix this issue. Planning doesn't solve it. Because plans constantly change due to the nature of the industry. It's highly volatile.
Why tech is so special in this case? Exactly because it's evolving quickly, it has to adapt quickly, it's costly and on top of that there's element of artistry and self expression that drives creatives. I don't know any way around that. It's more complex than shareholders.
Cyberpunk has been in development for 7 years. Doesn't sound fast to me.
 
It has been clear for a while, that Western AAA game development is not sustainable.
And that's just it. I might enjoy games that come out of it, but if the ability to make them is hinged on horrible treatment of workers... well, maybe then the AAA gaming industry doesn't deserve to survive. A fun video game really isn't worth the human toll. And certainly the bonuses of the filthy rich aren't worth that either. But I guess that's capitalism for you. A broken system in need of stricter regulation.
 

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