Dan DiDio on Matrix Supergirl's fate

[Lorendiac]

In Crisis Counseling: The Finale, Dan DiDio answered a question about whether or not Linda Danvers has still been Supergirl in the Post-IC DCU's official history by giving the following reply:

DD: The matrix is one of the beats retconned out of existence by the Continuity Wave.

Presumably "the matrix" refers to the artifical lifeform known as Matrix, or Matrix Supergirl. And therefore fans are assuming that all of Peter David's "Supergirl" title has just been swept under the rug, never to be heard from again.

Here was my first reaction to the news:

I figured all along that one way or another, after "Infinite Crisis" was over I would need to do a new edition of my "Timeline of First Appearances of Each Supergirl, Superwoman, etc." in order to catch up with any retcons they instituted. This particular retcon does not come as a huge surprise. After all, it neatly answers some criticisms I've made before, regarding the way Superman, upon meeting the current Kara Zor-El for the first time, did not mention Matrix, nor Linda, nor the Kara Zor-El of "Many Happy Returns" for that matter! Because of the Retcon Punch, I guess he had already forgotten any of those three ever existed!

And it's not even like this is the first time an editor has tried to get Matrix surgically removed from Superman's continuity. I am told that way back in the early 90s, Mike Carlin desperately wanted to do a sort of "quiet retcon" of Matrix Supergirl and simply never let anybody in any of the Superman titles refer to her again. So that for all practical purposes, she never would have existed! Someone -- I'm not sure who -- managed to talk him out of that, and Matrix returned to Earth during "Panic in the Sky" and ended up being seduced by Lex Luthor, but apparently Carlin went through a period where he really wanted the new policy to be "There is no Matrix Supergirl! Never was! Never will be!" Sooner or later someone was bound to try that all over again!

(I don't say this is the best idea I ever heard. I only say I am not surprised that it finally happened now that DC's "Supergirl Flavor of the Month" is the Jeph Loeb's Reboot Version.)

P.S. After I posted those first reactions in Matrix Supergirl threads in a couple of other forums, someone pointed out a possible corollary that I hadn't thought of. If "Matrix Supergirl from a Pocket Universe" never existed, does that mean that the whole Pocket Universe never existed? If so, that would mean that Superman never used green kryptonite to kill General Zod or the other two Phantom Zone Villains of that particular universe. Which would make a lot of Superman fans happy, I believe, now that he's never actually "executed" anyone after all!

 

[Pksoze]

P.S. After I posted those first reactions in Matrix Supergirl threads in a couple of other forums, someone pointed out a possible corollary that I hadn't thought of. If "Matrix Supergirl from a Pocket Universe" never existed, does that mean that the whole Pocket Universe never existed? If so, that would mean that Superman never used green kryptonite to kill General Zod or the other two Phantom Zone Villains of that particular universe. Which would make a lot of Superman fans happy, I believe, now that he's never actually "executed" anyone after all!

According to Diddio the heroes remember everything. So even if Supes didn't kill he now remembers the murders.

 

[Lackey]

IF they remembered absolutely everything, then Superman would remember Matrix Supergirl and I don't think he does.

 

[Pksoze]

IF they remembered absolutely everything, then Superman would remember Matrix Supergirl and I don't think he does.

Well another history of the DCU will hopefully clear this up.

 

[The Question]

If Matrix and Linda Danvers are taken out of continuity, I will be EXTREMELY pissed off at DC.

 

[Lackey]

Ha ha

 

[drastic_quench]

What does it really matter? Time always marches on in comics. Rarely do characters just sit around and reminisce about the past anyhow. No Matrix for the Super-verse and Chill now killed the Waynes. Neither of these will have much of any effect on the issues I'll buy next week, or the week after, etc.

 

[Shadowknight]

Considering how badly Matrix was ruined by the end of PAD's Supergirl run, I'd say eliminating her from continuity was a mercy killing/retcon.

 

[The Question]

What does it really matter? Time always marches on in comics. Rarely do characters just sit around and reminisce about the past anyhow. No Matrix for the Super-verse and Chill now killed the Waynes. Neither of these will have much of any effect on the issues I'll buy next week, or the week after, etc.

It will, however, have an effect on the fact that the Matrix/Linda Danvers Supergirl series kicked all manner of ass, and now they're pretending it never happened. Same way they cancelled Young Justice for the quite inferior Teen Titans and made all of the character developement of Hal in the Spectre series rather meaningless because now "a fear demon did it." Why is DC screwing over all of my favorite books?

Considering how badly Matrix was ruined by the end of PAD's Supergirl run, I'd say eliminating her from continuity was a mercy killing/retcon.

What do you mean?

 

[drastic_quench]

So it was good. It's still good. Those issues are sitting in a box somewhere - bagged and boarded - and still full of Supergirly goodness.

I don't get it. Just because DC says this "doesn't count" anymore doesn't take away whatever those stories meant to people.

 

[Shadowknight]

What do you mean?

First, she fused herself to Linda Danvers (LD). Not hugely a fan of this, but okay. Then there was the whole angst with Linda being a devil worshipper, then she was an Angel and got funky new powers. Then her excess goo turned into a psychotic killer for no reason. Then she started going evil and having bat wings. Then she got more and more evil, while dealing with an obnoxious kid and his grown up self who were God/the devil. Then she disappeared while LD had a few of her powers while traveling the country with Buzz (former demon), whom she was married to in another life and murdered. Then (memory a bit spotty here) she fused to another person to be an angel, but LD got her powers upgraded to Supergirl's old levels. At this point, Matrix is entirely gone while LD is now Supergirl. Then Kara pops up, LD takes her place in a pre-Crises universe, then we get more angst as she ages 10 years and has to go back to the "real" universe.

Anyway, too much angst, too much devil/god stuff, Matrix was no longer around as Supergirl, period, part of her turned evil for no reason... You get the idea.

I read for awhile, and thought some of the ideas were okay... but not for Matrix, given how screwed up/gone at the end of the series.

 

[The Question]

Well, she wasn'r around for all of it, but she was still apart of it. The series was quite good in my opinion, and DC disregarding it like this pisses me off.

 

[Lorendiac]

So it was good. It's still good. Those issues are sitting in a box somewhere - bagged and boarded - and still full of Supergirly goodness.

I don't get it. Just because DC says this "doesn't count" anymore doesn't take away whatever those stories meant to people.

Depends. One of the things several diehard fans of the PAD Supergirl title have hoped for is a return of Linda Danvers "in continuity" for even more stories in the DCU! Not necessarily calling herself Supergirl anymore. (Superwoman, maybe. She's old enough now for that alias to make more sense, frankly.) So to those people what DiDio said does in fact take away some of their hopes and dreams that are based upon their fond memories of the stories in the previous Supergirl series.

 

[Spike_x1]

I'm not surprised by any of this at all. Nowadays, DC isn't even trying to remember and build off of anything that happened in the late 80's and the 90's. The only thing (in Superman's post-crisis mythos at least) that has remained concrete in continuity seems to be the fact that Doomsday once killed Superman. Other than that event, it appears that everything that went on within that time period is being swep away in order to be replaced by the pre-crisis status quo establishment (Lex is the renegade mad scientist, Superman's power is being upped, the massive quantities of a rainbow of kryptonite now on earth), and now, with the new Supergirl, Linda Danvers is just going to be forgotten?

Y'know what? Since the current writers seem to just be retconning everything for the sake of reenacting their fondest memories of pre-crisis Superman history, does that mean that the next generation's group of writers will be allowed to retcon all of today's retcons and reenact all of their favorite moments from the 80's and 90's? Scrap Kara Zor-el and bring back Linda Danvers?

Did that make sense to anyone but me?

 

[Anubis]

I understood it, and yes. That is what will happen. Might take 20 or so years, but thats whats gonna go down.

 

[Lackey]

Y'know what? Since the current writers seem to just be retconning everything for the sake of reenacting their fondest memories of pre-crisis Superman history, does that mean that the next generation's group of writers will be allowed to retcon all of today's retcons and reenact all of their favorite moments from the 80's and 90's? Scrap Kara Zor-el and bring back Linda Danvers?

If you were an editor/writer... isn't that what you would do?

 

[Spike_x1]

I understood it, and yes. That is what will happen. Might take 20 or so years, but thats whats gonna go down.

In that case, it might take a while before my next exclaimation will come into effect, but I give that news a hearty "SWEET!!"

 

[Anubis]

It's the same reason why ten or so years from now there will be a 90's rvial and they're gonna have a ton of Power Rangers or I don't know, DIgimon comics or something. It's a vicous cycle. My generation will always be better though. Transformers and GI Joe rulz.

 

[BrianWilly]

Superman does remember Linda. During a JSA Identity Crisis crossover, he and Power Girl were discussing the new Supergirl and Karen mentioned that Kara was the real deal, not like Karen herself or "that angel."

She hasn't ever been brought up since and not often before, but I think that's mostly editorial sidestepping -- comparable to Spider-Man not "remembering" that he and MJ once lost a baby, or Johnny Storm not "remembering" that he was married before -- and not because the heroes of the DCU literally don't remember that person in their lives. Certainly it doesn't contradict DiDio's current position that the heroes remember everything from the "former" Earth. The process of continuity waves and how they affect individual memories was illustrated quite well in an issue of Teen Titans several months ago.

Didio's stance on Linda is disappointing, but it's nothing new. And it's interesting that he specifically referred to "the matrix" and not Linda herself; as any fan will tell you, Linda's not the same person as "Mae." It's not out of the question that she's still around and if someone could come up with a good enough pitch that she might return in some capacity.

 

[Spike_x1]

If you were an editor/writer... isn't that what you would do?

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YES!

 

[The Question]

Ooh. Spike. Don't forget, people seem to be able to be exposed to hundreds of points of Kryptonite and not succumb to radiation poisoning now.

 

[Spike_x1]

Yeah, that subject really irks me. Lex's radiation poisoning was the catalyst for almost ALL of the major events surround Luthor's character in the early post-crisis days.

Plus the fact that Lex didn't even take the time to dig up Conduit's body to add to his kryptonite collection puzzles me slightly. Not that I want to see Conduit again (he sucked; stay away from and back issues with him). It just seems like his body would possibly be a large source of green k radiation (which Lex is acquiring at the moment), and it would slightly ease my concerns about DC's seeming disregard for past continuity if we saw his corpse strung up in Lex's kryptonite storage chamber.

 

[Lackey]

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YES!

see, so you can't blame the current writers for what they're doing if you'd do the same thing.

 

[The Question]

Yeah, that subject really irks me. Lex's radiation poisoning was the catalyst for almost ALL of the major events surround Luthor's character in the early post-crisis days.

All they would have had to do was draw him wearing a radiation suit, and I would have been happy. Also, I have a question. While Kryptonite was lethal to all, Superman succumed to the symptoms faster because his cells absorbed radiation by their very nature, correct? Was he also suceptible to other forms of radiation poisoning, like from Plutonium?

Plus the fact that Lex didn't even take the time to dig up Conduit's body to add to his kryptonite collection puzzles me slightly. Not that I want to see Conduit again (he sucked; stay away from and back issues with him). It just seems like his body would possibly be a large source of green k radiation (which Lex is acquiring at the moment), and it would slightly ease my concerns about DC's seeming disregard for past continuity if we saw his corpse strung up in Lex's kryptonite storage chamber.

From what I heard of Conduit's backstory, he sounded like a crappy, post crisis version of Master Jailer. You know, an old friend of Clark's going crazy.

 

[drastic_quench]

Busiek dislikes Conduit. Quoting from:http://www.comicbloc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23294&page=7&pp=16

Can I just have all the Superman rogue's gallery gather to pee on him?

I shouldn't say that, it's not nice. But I really, really didn't like Conduit. If he had a sidekick, would be be called Ductwork? Or Vent?

I think Master Jailer and Astralad had the "villains who grew up with Clark" thing covered, even once you yanked Lex out of Smallville...

kdb