Daredevil Daredevil General Discussion Thread

[seahammer]

It's entirely possible that the plan was for Daredevil to grow much in the same way the Daniel Craig James Bond has so, in sequels, he'd be less of a killer. That being said, even if Daredevil wants to kill, he does rise above his impulses and certainly shouldn't start by acting on them early in the season. Daredevil (Frank Miller's Daredevil anyway) became a lawyer because of an impromptu, out of character, act from his father who, when drunk, hit his son. His son, shocked and upset by this, ran off and spent the night by the Brooklyn Bridge. While there, he started thinking that his father "broke the rules" by hitting him. From that, he fostered a belief in the "rules," that is the law that governs society. While he helps stop criminals and certainly skates the edges of the rules, he doesn't want to break them.

It's why it's a shocking moment when he drops Bullseye and paralyzes him. Even then, it was only when pushed to the breaking point and, later one, when he plays Russian Roulette with Bullseye, he reveals that his gun had no bullets because he couldn't kill him. To me, even at his edgiest (and I'm not sure it has to go to quite that extreme), Daredevil can't cross that line.

Excellent post.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

I think Matt Murdock like Frank Castle work best when they toe that line between hero and vigilante.They are the street level guys who roll around in the muck of human depravity. You can't be in that world and not get a little dirty yourself.

Yeah, the thing I like so much about DD is the dichotomy of his day and night jobs. If the justice system worked the way it was supposed to than there would be no need for DD to exist, but it's fascinating to me that he still completely believes in that system. His alter ego is somewhat of a last resort. It's interesting.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Yeah, the contradiction is nice. It's not in character from the comics, but I've suggested before that Foggy Nelson should be the voice of the anti-Daredevil sentiment. All he has to say is "if it were a police officer doing this, you'd be absolutely trying to stop him." At the same time, he's not about getting revenge, he's about helping people. I think that's a key part for him that is consistent no matter which suit he wears.

I've posted parts of this interview with Frank Miller and Klaus Janson by Peter Sanderson. I want to just post the whole thing, but I'm typing it and that would be ridiculous. This is the part where it's talking about Daredevil and his motivations, personality, the contrast between him and Matt, etc. (typos are mine):

Spoiler

FM (interview in progress): I may have spoken out of line because what I said about a man creating two careers out of blindness is true; he never would have started both careers if he was not blind. I think it has reached the point where the blindness is not important. He's not compensating for it now; he's got more positive motives now. One of the things that I've been trying to do with him that I feel very strongly about, is that he is positively motivated, that he isn't an avenger and he isn't a punisher, that he's doing good rather than stopping evil. That really is the essence of the character.
PS: Now you said that as Daredevil he is doing what his father never wanted him to do. Could you go into this?
FM: His father wanted him to be a student, wanted him to become a doctor or a lawyer. His father did not want him to be out playing with the boys or fighting.
PS: Much less become a fighter as a career, which, after all, as Daredevil he has done in a sense.
FM: Matt Murdock is a natural scrapper. He's a violent guy.
PS: Where does the violence come from, do you think? Because of anger at the fact that he is blind?
FM: That's part of it. That's in there. That's really a tough question to answer, where the violence came from.
PS: Do you think it's also because being a fighter as Daredevil, he is imitating his father?
FM: I think he had a father/son relationship that many, many people could relate to. It's a little reversed from the normal situation, but a lot of men go through a stage where they want to be anything but like their father, and they find out they've imitated their father's life a little. The father/son relationship is a very binding thing, a very big part of Daredevil's life because of his father's death. So his father had a permanent effect on him, I don't think his father's death had as big an effect on him as his father's life, and he is his father's son, being a natural born fighter.
PS: I think you're the first one who introduced the idea that he had some buried resentment towards his father, before that the father always seemed to be like Uncle Ben in Spider-Man, an idealized symbol.
FM: Show me any guy that doesn't have resentments towards his father.
KJ: I was just thinking about where part of Matt's anger may have come from. I don't think his father really accepted Matt. And there was part of Matt that was the fighter and that did want to go out and play with the kids. His father didn't accept that side of him. Almost denied it.
PS:His father in fact seemed to want to live vicariously through him. "You're going to be something better than what I am. You're going to be what I want to be."
KJ:And that has to amount to some sort of anger, some sort of resentment - that my own father didn't really accept me as I am. There has to be some sort of feeling of hostility.
FM: There's also the feeling that he spent all his time for 20 years working to be the best lawyer, which he has basically done for his father, and that the freedom comes from Daredevil. He's a good boy when he's Matt and a bad boy, right down to wearing a devil's suit, when he's being Daredevil.
PS: So that with the usual secret identity idea of this person living this very constricted ordinary life and then escaping into being a superhero, usually you think of it as an escape for the reader who identifies with the hero, but in Daredevil's case it really is an escape for him.
FM: I figure that he comes alive as Daredevil. The essential thing about Matt is control, that he's always in control. He's often in situations that make him very angry but he calms himself; he does not believe in allowing his emotions to rule his life. In one way in which he goes against what is traditionally the mark of superheroes is that I want to make him an unsentimental character if I can. He's ruled by mind, by his convictions. Again, it's all very basic to the Christianity I've imposed on him, that he is afraid of what a lack of control could do, and the only kind of release he actually has is running around on rooftops.
PS: Devilish characters in fiction are usually characterized by two things if they're not outright villains: by a subversive sense of humor and by being able to express emotions that people in ordinary life are not able to do. Daredevil has done both. He not only ounces around, has fun and makes jokes, but he also gets much angrier than Matt ever does.
FM: I see him as almost an angel/devil kind of guy.
PS: And you say or imply that sometimes he becomes an avenging fury when he's dealing with criminals.
FM:That really leads to another thing. That leads to how he has to deal with criminals. I don't believe that Spider-Man would last two weeks the way he's conceived. In order to have power over the criminals, you would have to be that rotten; you would have to accept him as almost one of them. I mean that Daredevil has to reach the point where when he walks into a room, they're terrified of him, because he has to be as tough as the Kingpin to be accepted as a force that they'll respect. That's not done much in comic books; it's around in other kinds of fiction. I'm more comfortable with thatl I don't see him as being happy go lucky when he's up against a bunch of guys with guns.
PS: You also said that he enjoys putting the scare into criminals and they acts very rough with them. This might indicate a slight sadistic streak. On the other hand, you've argued continually that he is a Christian man and that in some way he loves his enemy. How do you reconcile these two sides of him, or does he himself have trouble reconciling them?
FM: That's the point; that's why I refer to him as a Christian man. He sets himself what are probably impossible standards, and doesn't quite always match them. There may be a sadistic streak there; there may be a very angry streak, but it would not make him do anything deliberate; he wouldn't let it.
PS:He'd never get that far. That's where the control comes in, as with Bullseye on the tracks. Or as with Daredevil strangling Bullseye, but not giving in when the Kingpin said, "Why don't you kill him?"
FM: Yes. He couldn't be effective as a crime fighter if he wasn't a little like a crime fighter himself.
PS: If Daredevil is a man who has this Christian attitude of loving his enemies, and caring more about the victim than getting revenge on the criminal, how is it that he turned out this way? What motivates him? Because you'd think that with his father having been killed by criminals, he'd turn out like Batman, and that he'd turn into a prosecutor. It seems to me that you have to make an active effort to like people who are trying to kill you, and as for the part about caring more about the victim, might this possibly have something to do with the fact that Daredevil sees himself, at least on some levels, as a victim?
FM: Undoubtedly. I set myself a little writing assignment that was originally designed to fill up the back two pages in an issue of Daredevil. The project got to intense, so I decided to fill it with Daredevil by Ben Urich and I found that as I wrote it the characters just started talking and Urich was asking Daredevil why he did what he did and Daredevil started equivocating. Finally Ben pinned him down and Daredevil confessed that the reason he is Daredevil is because he is scared, that what happened to his father represented a horrible violation to him of everything that was good and the idea that the bad guys could win terrified him and that it still terrifies him and so he stops it. It only sounds paradoxical that the man without fear would be motivated by fear. He's beating it back and defeating it.
The reason why he became a lawyer is the knotty question. His father said "Don't be like me. Become a doctor or lawyer or somebody," and I don't think that's enough to justify him. I mean it's got to relate more to the basic theme of the character. In order to illustrate this, I wrote a scene that won't be used for a number of issues. What happened was that as a boy, Matt Murdock got into a fight, he was pushed too far and came home with his face smashed up, but he did pretty well for himself. His father, whose career was bottoming out, exploded and hit him and Matt ran away and spent the night on the Brooklyn Bridge thinking about how he couldn't stand it. How even his most trusted, the man he loved the most in the world could do this to him, it wasn't right that people could go around unchecked, that people needed rules, laws, and so he chose the lawyer course rather than the other...
PS: I think this also relates to his feeling of having to have self-discipline.
FM: Yes. Everything about him is controlled that way.
PS: Could it also be one reason that he loves his enemies, as you put it, is because he sees himself as being very much like them? And maybe then the Gladiator is a case that particularly means something to him because the Gladiator was consumed by anger approaching insanity and it would seem that Daredevil's struggling with his own anger. I noticed too in the dream sequence issue, Daredevil, when he meets the vision of his father, indicates his fear that he'll turn out like his father, in the sense of being punch drunk. Does he feel that this is where his career will lead him - to being a washed up old fighter?
FM: No, no. Because he's such a skillfull fighter and because he is in control of his life and doing so much with it. That was simply a way of putting his father's reproach into words. And that was what his father always said to him. But he's left that behind. He is making a success of himself on every level.
KJ: If I might just interject ... my interpretation of that scene was that Matt was distraught that he may end up like his father in the sense that his father made certain decisions at the end of his career and he took a certain path, which he didn't have to. He could have chosen a more positive, more constructive path, but he didn't, and what happened to him was a result of his own failings, and personal weakness. Matt is perhaps afraid that he may also make the wrong choices in his life. Not so much that he'll turn out to be a broken down fighter, but that he may take the less positive, less constructive road like his father did. His father took perhaps the weaker, easier way out. Matt is a scrapper.
FM: A theme that has been running through a whole bunch of Daredevils, and is one of the main things that the book is about, is his responsibility and culpability. The characters who are bad get ... in a way his father did corrupt things. His father threw fights and stuff. There was one he didn't, but that doesn't negate the fact that he willingly let himself get built up as a terrific fighter, so I suppose that would be another one. I really hadn't given any thought to Matt being worried about taking a similar course to his father because I don't think there's any chance that he would, and I think he would know that.

 

[s_mikheidze]

Mike....can I say that enjoy your referencing all the old DD stuff. As a lifelong DD fan (been addicted for 30+ years now), I like going down memory lane. Makes me want to re-read all my old DD comics.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Thanks. I'm sort of just getting into it. Daredevil was someone who interested me, but I never really had much an opportunity to explore. I grew up in the 90s, so the 90s Marvel cartoons were the medium I learned about these characters. Unfortunately, as a consequence, my exposure to some were quite limited. I think the only experience I had with Daredevil was his team up with Spider-Man. But recent Marvel movies and the announcement of this Netflix series piqued my interest. I decided to explore Daredevil the only way I could, by buying the comics (and spending way too much damn money at this point, seriously, I'm going to have to cut myself off soon).

It's been a fun ride so far. I'm hoping my fresh experience with stuff that people have been used to for awhile is helpful. My hope for the Daredevil series is to cut to the core of the character and accurately capture him. Daredevil in the comics has a lot of history, but it's important to only bring to life what's important for the story to capture who he is so as to not get bogged down.

 

[Paradox1]

Yeah, the thing I like so much about DD is the dichotomy of his day and night jobs. If the justice system worked the way it was supposed to than there would be no need for DD to exist, but it's fascinating to me that he still completely believes in that system. His alter ego is somewhat of a last resort. It's interesting.

You could call his day job a last resort as well.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Any word on when they start shooting?

 

[seahammer]

You could call his day job a last resort as well.

What a thought provoking paradox.

 

[XIceman]

Quick question ... I'm a novice netflix user ... But I know that they sometimes release the entire season of episodes at the same time (ex. Orange is the new Blacks second season just became available , with ALL the episodes) , unlike agent of shield of network shows that get 1 episode a week , go on numerous hiatus' , and like to skip a week here n there ... So will this show and the others have all the episodes available immediately ?? Or will it be a scheduled broadcast season ?


I hope that it is released all at once , or maybe split in 2 parts ... Certain shows get unbearably boring in mid season episodes and it's hard to watch .. I started watching once upon a time when the season 2 DVD came out and plowed through the whole thing in a week... Thrn when season 3 started , after the second or 3rd episode.. It got boring ... Plus it's hard to remember certain details from let's say episode 4 when your watching 8 or 9x that make the story more interesting ... I'm glad this is happening either way .. But curious how they will handle the release ...

Thoughts ? Do they always release the whole season ??

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Thoughts ? Do they always release the whole season ??

Always. The only case where I saw they did differently was Heroes, I think sometime during the 2nd or 3rd season netflix had each episode a few days after it aired. But that was an anomaly because they don't offer current season eps anymore that I know of.

Otherwise it's always a season all at once (unless it's a Sopranos/Breaking Bad style half season)

 

[Green Goblin]

Any news on who's playing the big man himself?

 

[Dark Raven]

Which big man? Kingpin?

 

[XIceman]

Always. The only case where I saw they did differently was Heroes, I think sometime during the 2nd or 3rd season netflix had each episode a few days after it aired. But that was an anomaly because they don't offer current season eps anymore that I know of.

Otherwise it's always a season all at once (unless it's a Sopranos/Breaking Bad style half season)

Phenomenal !!

 

[guitarsingerguy]

Any news on who's playing the big man himself?

The only casting news at all so far has been Matt Murdock himself. I'm not even sure there's been confirmation of what other characters are going to be included in the show.

 

[Paradox1]

Vincent D'Onofrio is an excellent choice as the kingpin. He won't physically embody the character but in acting he's going to be fantastic. I'm a big fan of his going back to Law& Order: Criminal Intent.

 

[Dr. Evil]

The only casting news at all so far has been Matt Murdock himself. I'm not even sure there's been confirmation of what other characters are going to be included in the show.

Kingpin!

http://marvel.com/news/tv/2014/6/10...s_wilson_fisk_on_marvels_daredevil_on_netflix

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

While Charlie Cox I don't know really and can't judge his acting on whether or not he is a right fit for Matt Murdock/Daredevil, Vincent D'Onofrio is a great pick and look forward to him chomping on a cigar and beating the crap out of ol' hornhead while wearing his signature white suit and purple pants.

 

[fixxxer]

This is literally my fan-cast come alive. I had exactly two choices for the Kingpin in my head: James Gandolfini and Vincent D'Onofrio. Considering the former passed away, this is absolutely perfect.

 

[Dark Raven]

I wonder if anymore of the L&O criminal intent cast will show up in the MCU. We've had Saffron Burrows already and now Vincent D'Onofrio. Maybe Kathryn Erbe, Courtney B Vance, Jamey Sheridan, Chris Noth, Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio or Jeff Goldblum?

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Awesome choice. Really looking forward to this even more now

 

[Suzanne78]

I'm watching The Good Wife. I realize I need Chris Noth and Julianna Marguiles in ANYTHING for this show or the MCU. Ditto with Archie Panjabi (Kalinda).

 

[kosh33]

I wonder if anymore of the L&O criminal intent cast will show up in the MCU. We've had Saffron Burrows already and now Vincent D'Onofrio. Maybe Kathryn Erbe, Courtney B Vance, Jamey Sheridan, Chris Noth, Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio or Jeff Goldblum?

Jeff Goldblum for Starfox

 

[kosh33]

I'm watching The Good Wife. I realize I need Chris Noth and Julianna Marguiles in ANYTHING for this show or the MCU. Ditto with Archie Panjabi (Kalinda).

maybe they can be bad lawyers that Daredevil hunts in the night

 

[Dark Raven]

Should DD have a theme tune for this series? I hope they have one that is instantly recognisable, and longer than that thing composed for AOS.

I'm not sure if it should be very moody and lonely, or something more action orientated.

 

[agentorange]

Are they going to intertwine characters or just have seperate mini series for each character? cause Luke Cage and Dare Devil are both from Hells Kitchen I thought