Daredevil Daredevil General Discussion Thread

[Mike Murdock]

Yeah, the Arrow comparisons occurred to me too. I hoped to distinguish it a bit. With Arrow (until very recently), the flashbacks were about the mysteries on the island while these Daredevil flashbacks would be mostly thematic. That being said, Arrow has moved more towards theme recently and, when I finally wrote down the ideas buzzing in my head, it went far more chronological than originally intended. Unfortunately, I think Arrow comparisons will be inevitable anyway. CW's take on the Green Arrow is very close, in many ways, to what Daredevil should be. My hope is the characters and storylines themselves will be strong enough to rise above the similarities.

I agree with making it less procedural. I actually picture having continuing plots. However, when I started writing them down, they ended up being more self-contained with perhaps one or two storylines that bleed over. Stories like the murder client are deliberately introduced a couple weeks in advance (my biggest complaint about Frank Miller's first comic (with Elektra) is it didn't build off of anything). I originally wanted more with the gym closing and the drug dealing client but, as I came up with other ideas, they fell a bit into the background. It's possible to think of some of these plots as introductions rather than the whole story. However, I don't think we should go as serialized as The Wire, for example, where I'd be hard-pressed to tell you which episode was which. Instead, my hope was to give something substantive each episode to point to, even when there are ongoing stories. Again, my inspiration was this run of comics, which often did quite that. The story lasted several weeks, but the memorable ones like "Spiked" clearly set themselves apart from the comic before and the comic after.

Thank you for your feedback. Coming up with a plot isn't easy, so I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

 

[kosh33]

Thanks guys. I'm looking forward to what the show can bring. Obviously, there's so much more that can be done than I did. I drew mostly from the first two volumes of the Frank Miller run (issues 159 to 184 or so). I just really want 22 episodes instead of 13. There are a few iconic scenes or moments that I definitely want included. I might start a thread directly on that topic.

ETA: For the final closing shot, I was literally thinking of this, although more a Church stained glass window than a clock:



Perhaps then have it zoom out to show all of New York City.

Great work on the plots for the episodes Mike!

 

[Hypestyle]

I wonder what type of clients will Matt be defending?

 

[kosh33]

people on whom SHIELD/HYDRA did illegal testing?

 

[Mike Murdock]

I could go into this in a lot of detail, but I'll try to keep this short. First, as full disclosure, I am a lawyer (I work at a Public Defender office).

In the comics, I often see Matt defend only innocent people (whether that is factually innocent or legally innocent like Melvin Potter who was insane). He defended a mobster who killed someone only because he thought the mobster was telling the truth about being innocent (spoiler: the mobster actually had a pacemaker, which is why his heart beat didn't change when lying). When that guy was acquitted, he felt guilty about it.

Real defense attorneys usually defend people who happen to be factually guilty. However, in their view, it is the system and the process that are important. They think that, if you want to convict someone, you have to follow the law to do so. It's the process that's important because people make mistakes and we can't rely on just the word of the police or the word of the prosecutor to make that decision. In fact, in many ways, Matt Murdock is the greatest contradiction of any superhero. We usually hear the anti-vigilante speech from a policeman or prosecutor (or crabby journalist), but defense attorneys are the most likely to say it. What gives Daredevil the right to go above the law? How can we trust his judgment in a system that makes mistakes?

That being said, there would be something crass and cynical (and certainly unethical) if Daredevil put bad guys behind bars and then defended them to get them out (Melvin Potter excepted, though). Plus, Daredevil has always seemed to care more about the victims than other heroes. That's why I generally envision him foremost as a "defender of Hell's Kitchen." In this sense, there's no contradiction (or less of one). He defends those who are victims of the system, not the mob leaders or other high-paying clients. My ideas threw in some civil stuff as well (defending the community from being fraudulently divested of their property), but it added the kid selling drugs because he was forced to, which fits this idea that he's a victim in some ways (it's also a legal defense, fwiw). To me, that's the best compromise. A defense lawyer who only defends innocent clients would not be a very good one and would certainly be short on clients.

 

[H.U.S.T.L.E.]

Mike, I think that's a great point. Also, it's cool to know your background is in law, so it's no wonder why you identify with Daredevil! As I've started outlining a plotline for a season, the legal aspects of it are the most challenging for me since it's pretty much foreign to me.

I'm currently in the process of fleshing out a pilot treatment that'll lay groundwork for where I envision the rest of the season going and I'm taking a similar approach with Matt's character - that he believes in the law & the system. But in his old neighborhood, the system is broken so it pushes him to become a vigilante when the law can't do enough because of thorough corruption.

 

[gohei_]

Mike, I think that's a great point. Also, it's cool to know your background is in law, so it's no wonder why you identify with Daredevil! As I've started outlining a plotline for a season, the legal aspects of it are the most challenging for me since it's pretty much foreign to me.

And they even share the same last name

 

[Shakel92]

No news is killing me. I'm hoping that once AoS ends for the season we can start hearing some casting news. They are about 2 months from filming and we've heard nothing. I know this is only for one 13 episode season, but considering the interconnectivity of the MCU it should be a big name hire.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Mike, I think that's a great point. Also, it's cool to know your background is in law, so it's no wonder why you identify with Daredevil! As I've started outlining a plotline for a season, the legal aspects of it are the most challenging for me since it's pretty much foreign to me.

Don't worry, television law stuff is graded on a curve, so it just has to be vaguely close

 

[metaphysician]

Don't worry, television law stuff is graded on a curve, so it just has to be vaguely close

Indeed. I'll settle for "at least as good as the average Law & Order" episode.

Which is light-years better than the DD movie.

 

[The Overlord]

I could go into this in a lot of detail, but I'll try to keep this short. First, as full disclosure, I am a lawyer (I work at a Public Defender office).

In the comics, I often see Matt defend only innocent people (whether that is factually innocent or legally innocent like Melvin Potter who was insane). He defended a mobster who killed someone only because he thought the mobster was telling the truth about being innocent (spoiler: the mobster actually had a pacemaker, which is why his heart beat didn't change when lying). When that guy was acquitted, he felt guilty about it.

Real defense attorneys usually defend people who happen to be factually guilty. However, in their view, it is the system and the process that are important. They think that, if you want to convict someone, you have to follow the law to do so. It's the process that's important because people make mistakes and we can't rely on just the word of the police or the word of the prosecutor to make that decision. In fact, in many ways, Matt Murdock is the greatest contradiction of any superhero. We usually hear the anti-vigilante speech from a policeman or prosecutor (or crabby journalist), but defense attorneys are the most likely to say it. What gives Daredevil the right to go above the law? How can we trust his judgment in a system that makes mistakes?

That being said, there would be something crass and cynical (and certainly unethical) if Daredevil put bad guys behind bars and then defended them to get them out (Melvin Potter excepted, though). Plus, Daredevil has always seemed to care more about the victims than other heroes. That's why I generally envision him foremost as a "defender of Hell's Kitchen." In this sense, there's no contradiction (or less of one). He defends those who are victims of the system, not the mob leaders or other high-paying clients. My ideas threw in some civil stuff as well (defending the community from being fraudulently divested of their property), but it added the kid selling drugs because he was forced to, which fits this idea that he's a victim in some ways (it's also a legal defense, fwiw). To me, that's the best compromise. A defense lawyer who only defends innocent clients would not be a very good one and would certainly be short on clients.

You know one kind of villain DD has been missing? A corrupt lawyer, I don't think they have a real in depth storyline with a corrupt lawyer. I know sometimes DD has to deal with some of the Kingpin's interchangeable scummy mouth piece lawyers, but none of them had any sort of characterization or real importance to the story.

I think one character who could fit that bill is Lawrence Cranston, the third Mr. Fear. He was a lawyer and even went to school with Matt, he was also secretly a jealous psychopath who resented Matt Murdock and plotted to get revenge on him. You can have stories with him as a lawyer and a costumed villain, that might make him an interesting counter point to Matt Murdock, a super villain who subverts the legal system from the inside.

Cranston also in recent years, exposed Melvin Potter to chemicals that took away his sense of fear and made him suffer a psychotic break and go on a rampage where he killed a bunch of people. Potter is still in a insane asylum. Mr. Fear (along with Alexander Bont) is why Potter's reformation ultimately failed. Their stories have become intertwined in the comics. In the TV show, there could people trying to influence Potter into becoming a villain again, after some people who released from prison return to their old ways and Potter's story becomes even more tragic when more ruthless individuals try to exploit him.

 

[The.Brotherhood]

Can this incorporate some elements from the 'SUITS' series?

 

[Joeyjojo72]

I never saw the theatrical version, but enjoyed the DC version for the most part despite low expectations. Though I absolutely hated that "fight" between Murdock and Elecktra on the playground/seesaws.

yeah, no getting around that one. And its fairly lengthy.

I guess I'll have to check out the DC of these days though. Maybe in the run up to the show. Looking forward to it.

 

[Mask&Cape]

Does anyone know when there Netflix shows are due to being filming and airing?

Will the seasons be made available all at once, like House of Cards, etc.?

 

[Mike Murdock]

^ I don't think anything's been officially announced, but I'd have to imagine they'll follow their trend and release the season all at once.

You know one kind of villain DD has been missing? A corrupt lawyer, I don't think they have a real in depth storyline with a corrupt lawyer. I know sometimes DD has to deal with some of the Kingpin's interchangeable scummy mouth piece lawyers, but none of them had any sort of characterization or real importance to the story.

I think one character who could fit that bill is Lawrence Cranston, the third Mr. Fear. He was a lawyer and even went to school with Matt, he was also secretly a jealous psychopath who resented Matt Murdock and plotted to get revenge on him. You can have stories with him as a lawyer and a costumed villain, that might make him an interesting counter point to Matt Murdock, a super villain who subverts the legal system from the inside.

Cranston also in recent years, exposed Melvin Potter to chemicals that took away his sense of fear and made him suffer a psychotic break and go on a rampage where he killed a bunch of people. Potter is still in a insane asylum. Mr. Fear (along with Alexander Bont) is why Potter's reformation ultimately failed. Their stories have become intertwined in the comics. In the TV show, there could people trying to influence Potter into becoming a villain again, after some people who released from prison return to their old ways and Potter's story becomes even more tragic when more ruthless individuals try to exploit him.

That's a cool idea. The only problem I have with Mr. Fear is that he comes off as a Scarecrow clone. That being said, I always liked the idea of a fear-inducing villain for the Man without Fear - it does sound like someone who would have the potential to be a key rival of Daredevil. Using the version that ties him to his past as a fellow law student (and corrupt lawyer) could work quite well (particularly if you go with my flashback idea).

 

[Tymminator]

Casting announcements should be released soon I would guess..

 

[bluerayer]

There was a show, back in the 90s i think, about a guy who was a judge by day and a vigilante by night. Wonder if Daredevil the series will be like that show? Anyone remember it? I cant remember the name of it.

Nevermind, googled "judge day and a vigilante by night" and got the name, it's "Dark Justice" and it ran for 3 seasons.(1991-1993):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Justice
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101073/

 

[Saitou Hajime]

You know one kind of villain DD has been missing? A corrupt lawyer, I don't think they have a real in depth storyline with a corrupt lawyer. I know sometimes DD has to deal with some of the Kingpin's interchangeable scummy mouth piece lawyers, but none of them had any sort of characterization or real importance to the story.

Can this incorporate some elements from the 'SUITS' series?

I can see Matt crossing swords with an evil Harvey Spectre or Travis Tanner (who IS Harvey's evil counterpart) in the courtroom, while a Daniel Hardman or Edward Darby would the "big boss" types Matt would match wits with in the top floors.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

I think this is going to be a breakout series for Marvel. Really allow them to get to some nitty gritty and break away from the polish and sheen the MCU has on it right now. Show the real world and the fact that not every bad guy can be dealt with in a clean manner

 

[kosh33]

Interview with Quesada on the Daredevil series (from CBR)
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=52717



Key points:
we're not going into this show with the idea of trying to erase the memory of anything that came before or really any preconceived notions whatsoever. We're going into the show trying to create something that's incredibly exciting, incredibly engaging, and will give our fans something that they love, something that's unexpected, something that's going to keep them coming back for more. That's really, ultimately, the goal of this: How do we produce a "Daredevil" TV show on Netflix, that's going to be viewed the way that people view content on Netflix, in a way that's going to be compelling, feels unique, while bringing something that is not only true to the character, but providing something unexpected as well.

 

[Tymminator]

I read that earlier. Interesting.

 

[The Overlord]

^ I don't think anything's been officially announced, but I'd have to imagine they'll follow their trend and release the season all at once.



That's a cool idea. The only problem I have with Mr. Fear is that he comes off as a Scarecrow clone. That being said, I always liked the idea of a fear-inducing villain for the Man without Fear - it does sound like someone who would have the potential to be a key rival of Daredevil. Using the version that ties him to his past as a fellow law student (and corrupt lawyer) could work quite well (particularly if you go with my flashback idea).

Well lets face it, there are a lot of characters with similar gimmicks in comics that still get face time. Black Cat is kinda of a Catwoman rip off, you can argue in terms of gimmicks that Hawkeye is a Green Arrow rip off or that Aquaman is a Namor rip off. Heck Thanos is a rip off of a Darkseid and they are still going to put him in some Marvel movies. Not to mention DC has like 4 different ice themed villains. I think if a character has a different enough personality, they can have a similar gimmick and not necessarily be a rip off.

Also technically I think Mr. Fear used the fear gas before Scarecrow did, Scarecrow was created first, but did not use fear gas till late in the Silver age, later then the first Mr. Fear.

I actually think at this point Mr. Fear might be a more repulsive person then Scarecrow. Mr. Fear in his campaign against Matt Murdock, freed a serial killer and made him go on a rampage, caused a prison riot and framed Karen Page while trying to rig the trial so she go to jail. That was in his second major story arc in the 90s, when he came back in 2008, he drove both Gladitor and Matt's wife Milla insane with fear chemicals (Gladiator ended going on a killing spree, murdering dozens of civilians) they are both in a mental institution now. He also became a rapist, using his fear chemicals to create pheromones that force women to fall in love with him. He may not have made as many appearances as Bullseye, but he manages to give Bullseye a run for his money in terms of evil DD villains.

I also just want an evil lawyer character that has some history with DD and Cranston seems like the character that would fit the bill best from the DD comics.

I wouldn't mind taking some of the more goofy DD villains and give him roles as a corrupt civilians. Now Jester, in my mind, is a blatant Joker rip off, with only one thing separating him from Joker is the ability to use the media to manipulate. So why not make him a media pundit who tries to rally the public against DD and unlike Jameson is willing to make up evidence to further his case (perhaps being involved with Kingpin and willing to aid Kingpin's plan to install a corrupt puppet as mayor of NYC.) Wilbur Day (Stilt-Man in the comics) could be a white collar criminal selling tech and insider information on the black market. Really hammer home the idea that corruption has touched almost all aspects of society.

 

[Pokkle]

"You know that there are going to be some Marvel fans that when this show premieres, they are going to go on to Netflix, and they are going to sit there for 12 to 13-plus hours, and watch the entire thing all the way through. It's going to happen. The Netflix model offers us the advantage of being able to construct the show in a manner that is very different than a weekly network TV show." The entire season at once

 

[Gamma Goliath]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/05...g-daredevil-netflix-series-like-a-large-movie

Quesada on Daredevil

says theyre going to approach it like a long movie.

 

[Team Andino]

I know the day this comes out I'll likely be strapped down in my chair for most of the day. It should be a fun ride hopefully.