Deserved Oscars nominations of Superhero movies ?

[Spider-Fan]

I disagree. The best picture should be what the Academy members think was the best film. Trying to sacrifice one's own opinion for shaky guesses on the future seems pointless to me.

If it is the best film, it should be memorable, correct? If it is not memorable or leaves little impression, then how is it the BEST. Film should leave a lasting impact and impression. If it does neither, then it is not the best film.

 

[Ryuzakirir]

The biggest problem at that time is, IF The Dark Knight was not recognized by the Guilds, fans would've have been okay with only Best Supporting Actor plus some technical noms.

But here's the thing, it was recognized heavily by the Guilds. PGA, DGA, WGA. Those guild awards are usually great indicators because as we know, the Academy is made up of these people.

Hey, even the people behind this awards said it themselves, that "they would have lied if they said The Dark Knight isn't one of the reason behind Best Picture expansion from 5 to 10 slots" back in 2010.

Now that's an impact. It's okay though, because The Dark Knight is more remembered than those that were nominated back then. That is enough.

Oh and mind you, The Reader got its nomination thanks to Harvey Weinstein. Everybody knew that.

 

[Mjölnir]

If it is the best film, it should be memorable, correct? If it is not memorable or leaves little impression, then how is it the BEST. Film should leave a lasting impact and impression. If it does neither, then it is not the best film.

I don't think the Academy members forget the films for which they vote.

 

[Adhesive Boy]

You're evaluating it's relative popularity NOW. I am not arguing NOW. I am arguing the FUTURE. You know what had little fan fair when it opened? Blade Runner. Now it has a decent fan base.

Becoming a cult movie is hardly equal to being iconic. That was what you said it would be.

 

[LTuser]

The best picture nomination process has some 6000 people vote for what films should be nominated so it should find a consensus will of these film industry people quite well.

That's something i don't like though. WHY Only limit it TO the film industry for voting on oscars??

 

[LvtLeeTDK]

Does anyone here think that Black Panther can surpass The Dark Knight in terms of awards ?

When I say awards I mean The Guilds, Globe, BAFTA, Critics Choice and Oscars.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Becoming a cult movie is hardly equal to being iconic. That was what you said it would be.

Blade Runner is iconic. Look at the AFI top 100 list. It's on there. Most people if they have not seen it are aware of it. That is called being iconic. People not turning out for its sequel has nothing to do with the first one not being iconic. Sometimes sequels fail, even for popular franchises.

 

[Mjölnir]

That's something i don't like though. WHY Only limit it TO the film industry for voting on oscars??

Why should the Academy, which is basically a club for people in the industry, let other people vote for their award? That makes as little sense that if I'm going to give money to charity I have to let other people have a say in which cause I give to. It's my donation so it's my choice. It's their award so it's their choice.

Nothing about the Academy Awards is about representing the general opinion, although I've seen some in the thread have been slightly confused on that issue.

Blade Runner is iconic. Look at the AFI top 100 list. It's on there. Most people if they have not seen it are aware of it. That is called being iconic. People not turning out for its sequel has nothing to do with the first one not being iconic. Sometimes sequels fail, even for popular franchises.

I wouldn't agree with that. Ask people on the street what Blade Runner is and most people won't know. I'd even think more people would name Oscar Pistorius than the film.

I doubt many people care about the AFI top 100 either, especially if we're not stuck with a completely USA centric view.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Why should the Academy, which is basically a club for people in the industry, let other people vote for their award? That makes as little sense that if I'm going to give money to charity I have to let other people have a say in which cause I give to. It's my donation so it's my choice. It's their award so it's their choice.

Nothing about the Academy Awards is about representing the general opinion, although I've seen some in the thread have been slightly confused on that issue.



I wouldn't agree with that. Ask people on the street what Blade Runner is and most people won't know. I'd even think more people would name Oscar Pistorius than the film.

I doubt many people care about the AFI top 100 either, especially if we're not stuck with a completely USA centric view.

I think most people may not have seen it, but they may say something like "Isn't that a Harrison Ford movie?" Cult movies don't get 200 mil sequels, even if said sequel underperforms. It's a step above that.

 

[Spider-Fan]

At this point, I think I have said my peace on this issue. The Oscars made a mistake not nominating The Dark Knight in 2008, and this notion of an "Oscar movie" only applying to certain genre types is a disservice to what the award is supposed to mean. The Best Picture should be almost like a time capsule of movies the audience and filmmakers should admire 30 years from now, not forgettable movies that were made about a popular historical event or person. Limiting the award like it has been for years doesn't properly represent what the award SHOULD mean. I just hope more of movies like Mad Max: Fury Road or Get Out continue to have the opportunity The Dark Knight was not granted in 2008 and the notion of an Oscar movie changes.

That's my 2 cents. I'm out on this topic!

 

[Mjölnir]

I think most people may not have seen it, but they may say something like "Isn't that a Harrison Ford movie?" Cult movies don't get 200 mil sequels, even if said sequel underperforms. It's a step above that.

I think this was a case of where a cult film did get a big budget sequel, which showed in the BO returns. I love BR2049 but I would never have put any of my money into financing that just because I was completely sure that there isn't a sizable existing audience for it, plus that slow sci-fi like that just won't be a crowd-pleaser like something in the veins of Star Wars.

I'm very grateful that they did put in the money to make that film. A much stronger BP candidate than TDK in my view, ignoring a comparison of their respective competition.

 

[Skrilla31]

I would argue that TDK isn't even the best or most important superhero movie released that year. To me that was clearly Iron Man... and I don't even think that was good enough to warrant a best picture nomination.

 

[The Joker]

Best and important are apples and oranges. I would give Iron Man the important win that year because it kick started the MCU and the whole shared universe phenomenon. But the best was, and still is TDK. It definitely deserved a best picture nom. Quality > importance every time.

 

[Adhesive Boy]

I agree that best and important aren't the same things and that importance isn't relevant to whether a movie is good. I'm not placing TDK in the best category though.

 

[Spider-Fan]

An argument could maybe have been made for RDJ as Best Actor (after all, Depp got nominated for Jack Sparrow), but outside that and technical awards, I don't think Iron Man was a BP film. I love Iron Man, don't get me wrong, but TDK is a better film and was the BP contender of that year.

 

[The Joker]

Yeah TDK had, and still has enough people placing it in the best category already, hence why it's a continued discussion from back then e.g.;

http://www.mtv.com/news/2594488/the...mpts-increase-in-best-picture-oscar-nominees/

http://entertainment.time.com/2010/...nubs/slide/best-picture-the-dark-knight-2008/


And still is 9 years later on why it deserved a best picture nom.

 

[Skrilla31]

An argument could maybe have been made for RDJ as Best Actor (after all, Depp got nominated for Jack Sparrow), but outside that and technical awards, I don't think Iron Man was a BP film. I love Iron Man, don't get me wrong, but TDK is a better film and was the BP contender of that year.

I don't think either qualifies, but may I ask why you think TDK is deserving and not Iron Man?

 

[Spider-Fan]

I don't think either qualifies, but may I ask why you think TDK is deserving and not Iron Man?

Because TDK is just an overall better movie. The film has some of the best camera work a superhero movie has ever had (Iron Man in comparison has many scenes where the camera isn't dynamic...common phase 1 problem). Iron Man is a great movie largely because of the characters, the interactions, etc. But, TDK is a complete experience and every aspect of the film comes together brilliantly Further, Joker trumps Iron Monger. I would say Stark trumps Wayne, yes, but not to the same extent.

 

[Skrilla31]

Because TDK is just an overall better movie. The film has some of the best camera work a superhero movie has ever had (Iron Man in comparison has many scenes where the camera isn't dynamic...common phase 1 problem). Iron Man is a great movie largely because of the characters, the interactions, etc. But, TDK is a complete experience and every aspect of the film comes together brilliantly Further, Joker trumps Iron Monger. I would say Stark trumps Wayne, yes, but not to the same extent.

So you value 'camerawork' over character and story?

And I actually would argue that RDJ trumps Bale by a wide, wide margin. Bale was incredibly boring and stiff to me.

 

[Spider-Fan]

So you value 'camerawork' over character and story?

And I actually would argue that RDJ trumps Bale by a wide, wide margin. Bale was incredibly boring and stiff to me.

No, I favor story. But, the story in TDK I also find superior. So, better camera work + better story (even if the main hero himself is better) = better movie.

But, even if I were to say Iron Man had a superior story, the visuals of TDK would be more superior to IM's than IM's story would be to TDK in this case...though I do find TDK better in both regards. Just stating how I would view it if the inverse were true.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Okay, being that one is an origin and one is a sequel, it's kind of unfair to compare the two-but here goes.

Iron Monger vs the Joker-Joker wins.

Batman vs Iron Man- Iron Man wins.

The exciting and grand scale of TDK puts it ahead IM in terms of story.

As far as action, IM has better action overall, but I actually think the Batbike scene leverages the playing ground-TDK wins, but barely.

Music easily goes to TDK.


Is TDK overrated?


In some ways. I feel like the final act feels truincated, and some of the characters aren't as nuanced to me as fans would argue.

But in terms of creating a cinematically complete film, I feel like TDK does the closest job, even though I personal prefer Spider-Man 2 as a narrative.

 

[LTuser]

Why should the Academy, which is basically a club for people in the industry, let other people vote for their award? That makes as little sense that if I'm going to give money to charity I have to let other people have a say in which cause I give to. It's my donation so it's my choice. It's their award so it's their choice.

Cause basically it winds up becoming noting more than a 'patting each other on the back circle jerkfest, where they tell everyone how great each other is'..

An argument could maybe have been made for RDJ as Best Actor (after all, Depp got nominated for Jack Sparrow), but outside that and technical awards, I don't think Iron Man was a BP film. I love Iron Man, don't get me wrong, but TDK is a better film and was the BP contender of that year.

Exactly. There's MANY a scifi / fantasy film i think the lead role, did as good if not better than every other actor that go nominated for 'best lead'. BUT other than 'fx/costume/music awards', it seems they are always dumped on.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Uh... There are fan voted awards already. And the Oscars has always been about the members of the industry voting among themselves on the question of "best" in any given years. This was never a secret. If you want to see fans/general audience awards they exist for one to see. This seems like a very silly complaint.

 

[Mjölnir]

Cause basically it winds up becoming noting more than a 'patting each other on the back circle jerkfest, where they tell everyone how great each other is'..

Then it's just about you for some reason having the opinion that the Academy Awards should be something they've never been. I fail to see any logic in that. Is it just because it's become a big award show? Well, it got big because it is what it is, the voice of many people in the business instead of random people.

Fan voted awards exist so just look towards those if you want that. They won't have as much fame, but that's because they are what they are. While no opinion matters more than anyone else's, it's still pretty easy to see why people are more interested in what people in the business think rather than the consensus among a group of random people.

In the end it's just best to learn that awards don't mean much. If more people did that we wouldn't have to endure people whining about that their favorite didn't win, or get nominated, as it's ultimately a completely pointless thing.

I don't care whether my favorite films were nominated for any awards, I choose my favorites entirely on my own preferences and I don't need support to stand for them.

 

[DACrowe]

So you value 'camerawork' over character and story?

And I actually would argue that RDJ trumps Bale by a wide, wide margin. Bale was incredibly boring and stiff to me.

RDJ is much more entertaining to watch. But you go through (or most audiences did) a significant emotional journey with Bruce Wayne. It transcended being an adventure and became a very apparent allegory for American anxieties and fears, and the way he loses everything yet still will be the "watchful guardian" gives his journey a cathartic weight absent Tony Stark's.

And it is more than "camerawork." It is that The Dark Knight on every level is masterclass from the directing, cinematography, acting, writing, music, it all comes together almost seamlessly and creates a potent, thought-provoking viewing experience. By comparison Iron Man is a pleasant time at the movies.