The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Did anyone like ASM2 better than Cap2 & DOFP?

[Visualiza]

Quality is subjective. BUT, if there is a mass consensus on something, then the small minority going against the vast majority better realize that they may be in fact, off base. Saying you think the movie didn't have editing, pacing, or writing issues for example while the vast majority on top of people who get paid to analyze these things for a living probably means you are wrong. Enjoying the movie is an entirely different thing that matters not what anyone else says.

Prepare to get crucified. You're not letting people have their opinions.

 

[spider-neil]

So now the mass consensus is the deciding vote? What was the mass consensus for a movie like Dredd? Absolutely bombed at the cinema and and has a luke warm reception on RT and I personally thought it was the best superhero movie in ****ing YEARS. So mass consensus can eat it as far as I'm concerned, mass consensus cost me a sequel to a truly GREAT movie.

It's absolutely hilarious to me that a movie like 2001 was brought up. And what was put against this seminal classic and argubly one of the greatest movies of its genre ever (something which Cap 2 and DoFP must assuredly are not)? a devisive sci-fi movie? No, Harold and Kumar (not even the same genre for pity sake). So again, what does that example have to with anything?

I went into Cap 2 expecting a good movie and got a good movie, not a ground breaking movie, not a genre defining movie but a good movie. No more no less.
I was bored for large parts of DoFP. Neither movie imho is a classic, they are just good entries in the CBM genre.

ASM2 by way of comparison is riddled with issues, there is no getting away from that as I was noting the issues whilst watching the movie but despite the issues the characters made it a worthwhile viewing experience and as such I will watch over and over again where as I doubt I will watch Cap 2 or DoFP more than a couple of times on blu ray. I just don't think Cap 2 or DoFP are of the absolute stand out quality or ASM2 so utterly terrible that makes comarisons moot. I think the performances of the leads alone in ASM2 elevates the movie from the absolute shocking movies it is being compared to.

At the end of the day, as you please but I didn't think ASM 2 was as bad as some people make out (understatement as I loved it) and I don't think Cap 2 or DoFP is the classic some people make out either. And confusing 2001 references haven't brought me around either.

 

[eon001]

Quality is subjective. BUT, if there is a mass consensus on something, then the small minority going against the vast majority better realize that they may be in fact, off base. Saying you think the movie didn't have editing, pacing, or writing issues for example while the vast majority on top of people who get paid to analyze these things for a living probably means you are wrong. Enjoying the movie is an entirely different thing that matters not what anyone else says.

Pretty much my whole point. ASM2 might not be a technical masterpiece but I enjoyed it more than TWS and DOFP.
I'm not a blind spiderman fan boy. I disliked ASM1.
Seems like there is a lot of DOFP diehards that can't accept that people might have enjoyed ASM more. Most of the arguments are coming from people that are like "What, how could you like this movie more than..?!"

 

[Spider-Fan]

Agreed. I expected TWS to be as awesome as it was from the start, but I'd never for a second would have guessed that DoFP would have an infinitely better script than TASM2. Like...wow. DoFP is probably what made me realize how disappointing TASM2 was. I thought it was good at first but after seeing DoFP and seeing how much better that film was with SO MUCH MORE IN IT, it made me see how poorly made TASM2 was. Webb constantly talked about how he went for the spectacle with this film and that sounded awesome. Didn't realize that's ALL the film would be. Literally, this film is all wow and no substance. Well, okay, there is substance here but it's usually laughably cheesy or poorly executed. Aside from the Gwen/Peter romance, it's pretty much all garbage. I just...AGH. I find it really hard to put it into words how I feel about TASM2, especially compared to TWS and DoFP. I don't HATE it, but I just refuse to sugar coat it. I sugar coated the first film because "Oh, it's a reboot, they NEEDED the boring origin story" or "Oh, it's Webb's first blockbuster, he's learning." but not this time. They had their chance to fix things and they really missed the mark. Arguably more so than the first time. The situation is even worse when it has to compete with two other CBMs which were far better received and another one coming up that is unbelievably anticipated all across the board. At the end of the summer, when you step back and look at the aftermath, we'll be left with two greatly received, box office successes, (possibly 3)...and Spider-Man.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Sony has to stop with this "follow the leader" ******** they keep pulling. This series is literally just taking cues from whatever is successful at the box office and then putting out a far more inferior version of it. Spider-Man needs his own thing. Or to at least stick with one. The fact that TASM1 and 2 are like apples and oranges is already a warning sign that this series is directionless. That wouldn't even be that bad overall if the films were good, but...they really aren't. They're okay at best. Honestly, right now, all I care about is TASM3. If it looks like more of the same right off the bat, I'm more than likely done. S6 and Venom are already dead to me. I have LITERALLY zero faith in Sony's ability to do anything with this character anymore unless they can prove otherwise but it's been 7 years of them ****ing up. I don't have to eat this **** just because it has the name "Spider-Man" on it.

From first to worst in 10 years. My, oh, my how the mighty have fallen...

/endrant

I agree with basically all of this. TASM2 is a frutrating movie for me, as well. I'm already "done" with this series as far as pre-movie hype. Will I watch TASM3? Sure. Am I excited? No.

As someone who doesn't have "favourite" characters, TWS and DoFP are clearly better movies. I enjoyed TWS the most. For me it just has more well rounded characters and a more streamline, yet intelligent story. I mean, Brock Rumlow wouldn't even be considered a fully fledged supporting character, yet he has a more consistent and compelling characterisation than Harry Osborne... the main villain of ASM2.

The only people i can see choosing ASM2 over the other two are big Spider-Man fans. But to them i say, don't just accept mediocrity simply because it features your favourite character. You should expect and want better.

I agree with this, but that can be applied to any fanbase. There are plenty of X-Men fans who still love X-Men Origins: Wolverine, and many GL fans who loved Green Lantern. I won't say this applies to all fans of TASM2, but certainly a Spider-Man fan will be more inclined to love his movies than a Captain America or X-Men movie.

Nope, I've spoken to few non comic book fans (from mine and fiancé's family) and they preferred ASM2 as well. Admittedly a tiny section of the GA.

Once again for everyone who makes this point for any movie, your friends and family do NOT reflect the public at large. Whether you know it or not, your family and friends have closer tastes to you than you want to admit, and this goes for EVERYONE. It is a bad argument. I hate when people try using this point.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

As a Spider-Man fan myself, moreso than Cap & X-Men, I must say it hurts to have despised his movie, and to see that his movie was by far the worst of the year.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

There's people beyond the SHH boards who enjoyed the movie.

Don't forget the probably thousands of positive Twitter reactions from the GA.

If the movie was truly popular we should see more evenly distributed positive ratings among both Spider-Man fans and non-fans, like we do with TWS and DoFP. Instead the positive reviews seems to be skewed very heavily as coming from Spider-Man fans, which is similar to what we saw for films like Man of Steel and Green Lantern. Superherohype is just one forum, but other sites show similar results. This suggests that among most audiences, TASM2 isn't that well-liked. Certainly not as much as TWS and DoFP.

I agree with this, but that can be applied to any fanbase. There are plenty of X-Men fans who still love X-Men Origins: Wolverine, and many GL fans who loved Green Lantern. I won't say this applies to all fans of TASM2, but certainly a Spider-Man fan will be more inclined to love his movies than a Captain America or X-Men movie.

Sure, it happens for any fanbase. I'm sure the majority of X-Men fans really like DoFP too. The problem isn't with the Spider-Man fans liking TASM2. The problem is the relative lack of non-Spider-Man fans sharing the same opinion. TASM2 appeals to a more hardcore and far narrower group than does TWS and DoFP.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I just want to add that bias is not necessarily a bad thing. We are all guilty of it. Look at my avatar. There are plenty of bad Bond movies that I watch and enjoy (ex. The Man with the Golden Gun, Moonraker, etc.). Being biased isn't the problem. But it also isn't an excuse for putting on blinders and not recognizing that the majority may not necessarily think the same way you do.

 

[The Joker]

I am much more of a Spider-Man fan than I am an X-Men or Captain America fan. I am a fan of the Cap and X-Men movies, but that's as far as it goes with them.

With Spider-Man I'm a die hard fan. I collect the comics and the merchandise;

Spoiler

So I have a natural inclination towards Spidey much more than Cap or the X-Men. It pains me to say a Spidey movie was poor. But TASM 2 was a weak movie. And DOFP and Cap 2 walked all over it in every aspect, IMO.

 

[Voices]

I find it hilarious that people are throwing out "mass consensus" for their arguments against this movie like it actually supports them.

This movie has a 71% audience approval rating on rotten tomatoes.

It has a 7.4 on IMDB.

Both of these numbers are from over a hundred thousand people each. I'd say that's a much better indication of a "mass consensus" than 200 critics that have to see this movie whether they want to or not because it's their job. These are the best available indicators of the general audience's opinion as opposed to the vocal fans you get on a site like this. And even when you to look at this site, polls are generally split down the middle, leaning towards a positive perspective in fact.

All of my friends, my mom, and even my grandmother enjoyed this movie. I know one person in real life that didn't like it. Out of about 50 people that I've asked. And I've heard similar stories from people all over the internet.

So... I don't know what you're using to assume that the "mass consensus" for this movie is negative. Because that's flat out wrong. It's not true on mass polls from sites like RT and IMDB. It's not true in my circle of friends. And it's not even true on this site. So... again. Kinda hilarious.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

It's a fun read. You know it's a 'I love ASM2' thread when there is comparing and putting down other movies to prop up an opinion because the movie can't stand on it's own merits.

To whom are you referring exactly? You do realize that this thread is essentially about comparing three different movies.

When the vast majority of those heaping the most praise on the film have some form of Spider or Spidey in their names, it does suggest that bias plays a big role.

I'll admit I have a bias towards Spider-Man but that doesn't mean I like everything that has his name on it. In fact, there's several things with his name on it that I truly despise or hate.

I rated all three of the movies on this thread, ASM2, DoFP and TWS, with essentially the same score cause I liked them all for different reasons. And while the latter two are better overall films, I do not think ASM2 is in any way a bad film. The enjoyment factor for ASM2 is higher and that may be a bit of my bias but honestly I really don't feel that way. Like I said, just cause Spidey is in the movie doesn't mean it's my only reason for liking the movie.

I don't know that I'd say ASM2 was "better" than Cap2 & DOFP,but it did give me the biggest grin to see Spidey given the kinda wisecracking traits/non constant mask removal for the first time.

I think that's what it comes down to.Can you appreciate an excellent Spidey portrayal in an average film?Seems most people can't.A lot of people seem to have had religious experiences with Cap 2 and DOFP,that I cannot fathom. ASM2 didn't provide that.

DOFP did have the benefit of righting the ship and returning the old cast,so I can give it a pass.But Cap 2 was just a solid Cap movie,not unlike IM 3 being a solid Iron Man movie and TDW being a solid Thor movie.

I feel pretty much the same way. And to the emboldened part...Yes. ASM2 is an average film imo and has an excellent rendition of the Spider-Man character so I can appreciate that very much. I would however like to see that same rendition in a higher quality film. Hopefully they'll recognize the beefs people have in that regard and give us just that with ASM3. It really depends on who they give the writing job(s) too.

As someone who doesn't have "favourite" characters, TWS and DoFP are clearly better movies. I enjoyed TWS the most. For me it just has more well rounded characters and a more streamline, yet intelligent story. I mean, Brock Rumlow wouldn't even be considered a fully fledged supporting character, yet he has a more consistent and compelling characterisation than Harry Osborne... the main villain of ASM2.

The only people i can see choosing ASM2 over the other two are big Spider-Man fans. But to them i say, don't just accept mediocrity simply because it features your favourite character. You should expect and want better.

I do expect and want better. That's probably why I am somewhat disappointed with ASM2...cause I know it could and should have been better. Still love it though.

As a Spider-Man fan myself, moreso than Cap & X-Men, I must say it hurts to have despised his movie, and to see that his movie was by far the worst of the year.

You know what hurts me? Seeing other Spider-Man fans that are loathing this movie. Because it shouldn't be that way. No one film is going to please everyone, even the popularly loved SM2 has its detractors, however I never wanted to see as much of a divisive response to a Spidey movie. It honestly pains me to see such vitirol coming from the Spidey fan base.

 

[The Joker]

This movie has a 71% audience approval rating on rotten tomatoes.

And it's dropping. It was 78% last month. It's still in theaters. The movie is already dwindling into obscurity. I think the only ones who will be holding it in high esteem in the years to come will be the handful of die hard Spidey fans who thought it was good.

It has a 7.4 on IMDB.

IMDB is the last place on earth to look for accurate movie ratings.

Everyone remotely familiar with that website knows that. In fact I'd say it's a common internet fact.

All of my friends, my mom, and even my grandmother enjoyed this movie. I know one person in real life that didn't like it. Out of about 50 people that I've asked. And I've heard similar stories from people all over the internet.

I agree with Spider-Fan in that friends and family do NOT reflect the public at large. It's an act of desperation when someone has to say their friends liked the movie in an effort to try and prove that a little minority like that is a consensus.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I find it hilarious that people are throwing out "mass consensus" for their arguments against this movie like it actually supports them.

This movie has a 71% audience approval rating on rotten tomatoes.

It has a 7.4 on IMDB.

Both of these numbers are from over a hundred thousand people each. I'd say that's a much better indication of a "mass consensus" than 200 critics that have to see this movie whether they want to or not because it's their job. These are the best available indicators of the general audience's opinion as opposed to the vocal fans you get on a site like this. And even when you to look at this site, polls are generally split down the middle, leaning towards a positive perspective in fact.

All of my friends, my mom, and even my grandmother enjoyed this movie. I know one person in real life that didn't like it. Out of about 50 people that I've asked. And I've heard similar stories from people all over the internet.

So... I don't know what you're using to assume that the "mass consensus" for this movie is negative. Because that's flat out wrong. It's not true on mass polls from sites like RT and IMDB. It's not true in my circle of friends. And it's not even true on this site. So... again. Kinda hilarious.

This is like the greatest hits list of 'evidence' supporters of ANY film use when they don't know what they are talking about. Basically all those things have long been debunked as having any reliable value whatsoever. Maybe someone else will cover it yet again why IMDB and your friends aren't able to tell us anything, but I'm not about to waste my time.

Maybe I should write up a generic template and copy and paste it every time once of those ridiculous arguments come up.

 

[Voices]

Ok. So can you provide any numbers or facts to counter those? Cause generally, when a mass consensus for a movie is bad, the numbers on those sites are a lot lower. There's a pattern strong enough to suggest that more people enjoyed TASM2 than not. Nothing to indicate otherwise. Certainly nothing coming from this site. I'm not saying the movie is perfect or without flaws. But you're claiming something to support your disdain for this movie with no evidence whatsoever. And whatever evidence that's there, is actually counter to your claims. At MOST this movie is split down the middle in terms of reception. And that's being generous. Some of you seem to forget that 53% from critics is not a score. It means that more than half of them enjoyed the movie. And the critics are almost always harsher than the general audience.

 

[AnneFan]

Or... Maybe we just happen to still actually like the movie?

Indeed. Some didn't like the movie, and that’s fine. But it’s wrong to think the people who liked it are knowingly accepting mediocrity. If someone likes TASM2 over the rest, so what? We don’t need to laugh down, disbelieve or deconstruct someone.

It’s all about perspective. I really enjoyed TASM2 and its second place in the series for me. I think most of the criticisms are storms in tea-cups, and find the B&R comparison ridiculously blown out of proportion. There’s a lot I like here.

If I loathed the film I'd say so, ala the boring mess that is Godzilla. I don't need universal love-ins or widespread consensus to enjoy something. I’m not sitting down watching a movie thinking, gee, the Tomato Meter may have dropped another five percentage points, I better start disliking this movie. I focus primarily on my own enjoyment. Other people – friends, critics, laundry sheriffs, etc can form their own views.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

I just want to add that bias is not necessarily a bad thing. We are all guilty of it. Look at my avatar. There are plenty of bad Bond movies that I watch and enjoy (ex. The Man with the Golden Gun, Moonraker, etc.). Being biased isn't the problem. But it also isn't an excuse for putting on blinders and not recognizing that the majority may not necessarily think the same way you do.

Question.

How the hell do you get any enjoyment, [even knowing it's a bad movie] out of Man W/ GG? That, Moonraker, DAF, and DAD offend me as a 007 fan.

You know what hurts me? Seeing other Spider-Man fans that are loathing this movie. Because it shouldn't be that way. No one film is going to please everyone, even the popularly loved SM2 has its detractors, however I never wanted to see as much of a divisive response to a Spidey movie. It honestly pains me to see such vitirol coming from the Spidey fan base.

Yep. Like Joker said, I'm a Spidey fan, first and foremost...I'm actually wearing a Spidey shirt right now ( ), so it does pain me to dislike a Spider-Man film so much.

 

[MbJ]

I don't quite get the argument that consensus is irrelevant. If that's the case then why even discuss the film at all if you're just gonna stick your fingers in your ears and scream "Lalallalala nope, not listening ASM2 is WAY better than Days of Future Past and Winter Soldier lalalalala"?

It's perfectly fine if someone likes it better than those two. But it's the specific argument of "Well critics and viewers in general thought these two were better? ********! Reviews mean nothing!" that has always confused me.

 

[eon001]

Prepare to get crucified. You're not letting people have their opinions.

So what exactly is wrong with having your own opinion? You hate the movie so much, that other people have to hate it too?

Indeed. Some didn't like the movie, and that’s fine. But it’s wrong to think the people who liked it are knowingly accepting mediocrity. If someone likes TASM2 over the rest, so what? We don’t need to laugh down, disbelieve or deconstruct someone.

Exactly this. I find it baffling how some haters of this movie are actually trying to breakdown and explain why I should hate this flick, and how deluded I am for loving it. It's like trying to explain why I should hate my favorite food. You hate the taste of lasagna but I love it, simple as that t:. You don't need to talk me off a ledge, I'm fine. It's just a movie.

 

[LizardMan07]

Spoiler

I am much more of a Spider-Man fan than I am an X-Men or Captain America fan. I am a fan of the Cap and X-Men movies, but that's as far as it goes with them.

With Spider-Man I'm a die hard fan. I collect the comics and the merchandise;

Spoiler

So I have a natural inclination towards Spidey much more than Cap or the X-Men. It pains me to say a Spidey movie was poor. But TASM 2 was a weak movie. And DOFP and Cap 2 walked all over it in every aspect, IMO.

You seem like a big Doc Ock fan! Nice little collection you've got there

 

[Hurm...]

I remember when The Joker used to be Doc Ock. Ah, the Spider-Man 3 days ;0

 

[spider-neil]

Once again for everyone who makes this point for any movie, your friends and family do NOT reflect the public at large. Whether you know it or not, your family and friends have closer tastes to you than you want to admit, and this goes for EVERYONE. It is a bad argument. I hate when people try using this point.

My brother (a non comic book fan) found ASM lacklastre and was going to skip ASM2. I really liked ASM, so how exactly is my families' opinion like mine?

 

[chaseter]

To whom are you referring exactly? You do realize that this thread is essentially about comparing three different movies.

It starts on page 2.

Other comic book movies have nothing to do with the quality of ASM2. A great movie doesn't need comparisons to the quality of other movies.

 

[spider-neil]

And it's dropping. It was 78% last month. It's still in theaters. The movie is already dwindling into obscurity. I think the only ones who will be holding it in high esteem in the years to come will be the handful of die hard Spidey fans who thought it was good.

The movie pretty much came out last month. I don't see the user score dropping further as the movies run is pretty much done.

I agree with Spider-Fan in that friends and family do NOT reflect the public at large. It's an act of desperation when someone has to say their friends liked the movie in an effort to try and prove that a little minority like that is a consensus.

So the opinion of non comic book friends and family have no bearing because it's a tiny minority. Should we disregard the opinions of SHH because the sample pool of opinion is too small as well?

 

[spider-neil]

Indeed. Some didn't like the movie, and that’s fine. But it’s wrong to think the people who liked it are knowingly accepting mediocrity. If someone likes TASM2 over the rest, so what? We don’t need to laugh down, disbelieve or deconstruct someone.

It’s all about perspective. I really enjoyed TASM2 and its second place in the series for me. I think most of the criticisms are storms in tea-cups, and find the B&R comparison ridiculously blown out of proportion. There’s a lot I like here.

If I loathed the film I'd say so, ala the boring mess that is Godzilla. I don't need universal love-ins or widespread consensus to enjoy something. I’m not sitting down watching a movie thinking, gee, the Tomato Meter may have dropped another five percentage points, I better start disliking this movie. I focus primarily on my own enjoyment. Other people – friends, critics, laundry sheriffs, etc can form their own views.

This. 100%.
The back and forth in this thread is weird. The thread title asks a simple enough question and there is a disbelif if anyone has a perference for ASM2. My posts are pretty much me being asked to justify my opinion.
I too disliked Godzilla but I wasn't constantly asking the people who enjoyed the movie to justify their opinion.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Indeed. Some didn't like the movie, and that’s fine. But it’s wrong to think the people who liked it are knowingly accepting mediocrity. If someone likes TASM2 over the rest, so what? We don’t need to laugh down, disbelieve or deconstruct someone.


It’s all about perspective. I really enjoyed TASM2 and its second place in the series for me. I think most of the criticisms are storms in tea-cups, and find the B&R comparison ridiculously blown out of proportion. There’s a lot I like here.

If I loathed the film I'd say so, ala the boring mess that is Godzilla. I don't need universal love-ins or widespread consensus to enjoy something. I’m not sitting down watching a movie thinking, gee, the Tomato Meter may have dropped another five percentage points, I better start disliking this movie. I focus primarily on my own enjoyment. Other people – friends, critics, laundry sheriffs, etc can form their own views.

Yes, to all of this. Great post. It's very unfortunate that some people seem to think that because someone favors ASM2 to other movies it has to be because of a 'reason' or excuse. Oh that person must be biased or blind or whatever. Very silly. I also find it funny how people cling to the RT scores whether it be critics or audience ratings, especially when they use those scores in an attempt to prove a point. They're meaningless when you think about your own enjoyment of a movie and have no bearing on the decision making process of why/how you like something. At least, not for me anyway.

There's a ton of stuff to enjoy in ASM2. I really love the film. And I honestly don't see the B&R comparisons at all. I do agree that some of criticisms of this movie have merit however that one is just ridiculous.

Yep. Like Joker said, I'm a Spidey fan, first and foremost...I'm actually wearing a Spidey shirt right now ( ), so it does pain me to dislike a Spider-Man film so much.

to the bolded part. Off-topic, I just got a totally awesome t-shirt from my wife for Father's day. Check it out:

http://www.amazon.com/Spiderman-Gwensday-30-Single-T-Shirt-/dp/B00G4C35A0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1403157472&sr=8-1&keywords=gwensday

 

[SpideyZERO]

On the topic,

ASM2 is my most anticipated movie this year, zero interest on TWS and DOFP, didn't even bother to look up any trailers for both the movies, and I watched them because my friends asked me to. In the end, ASM2 is the worst of the three...TWS and DOFP totally blew ASM2 away, kinda sad for me as Spider-Man fan.