Superman Returns did superman seem messiah like ?

[KON - EL]

in the scene after superman pushes new krypton into space, he falls back with his arms out falling back into the atmosphere and the people there at the hospital hoping that there savior is ok. what do you think?

 

[DACrowe]

Yeah....the entire story is very Messiah-esque as was the original Superman mvoie and story. He is sent to Earth by his godlike father as his ONLY SON to be the light to guide these earth people to greatness and to be good people. He is selfless and turned on by those who he tries to redeem (Luthor) and has to take time off alone in the woods (okay space) but 5 years instead of 40 days to gather his faults. And yes in this movie he is essientially killed in the cross position but rises again and will always be with us.

It was very heavily based on the Jesus Christ story. Funny considering the creators of Superman were Jewish and if anything it was meant to be an immigrant story with a hint of Moses. Christian writers changed that over the years though.

 

[Tron5000]

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237024

 

[Speedball]

He's always been compared to Christ.
Look at his death in the comics.
Killed by a monster (Doomsday=Roman Empire), His message was continued by his followers(The Supermen=Apostles or disciples), disappeared from his grave, which was found out by the woman who loves him (Lois Lane=Mary Magdalene) and resurected stronger than ever, except Superman stayed.

 

[LongshotRules]

Since he found that he fathered a child in this movie, could Da Vinci Code be right after all about Jesus?

 

[StarvingArtist]

I saw it tonight and I really was crushed by the movie.

Us Jews have been vying for our place in the world for nearly six millenia and we can't even hang onto our claim to a fictional character.

Every day I read about the turmoil Israel is going through, the rampant anti-semitism in arab countries, and I dunno, maybe I just know too much about history and the state of the world in regards to Jews, but to have Superman taken away like that...it really kind of adds insult to injury.

Look, Superman was a Jewishly inspired creation meant to be a nuetral hero for all mankind. And I didn't need to see him assume the cross position, get stabbed in the abdomen, watch his body dissapear, and bequeath the holy ghost to his only son.

lol I can't believe I'm this upset after watching a Superman movie.

 

[Speedball]

I saw it tonight and I really was crushed by the movie.

Us Jews have been vying for our place in the world for nearly six millenia and we can't even hang onto our claim to a fictional character.

Every day I read about the turmoil Israel is going through, the rampant anti-semitism in arab countries, and I dunno, maybe I just know too much about history and the state of the world in regards to Jews, but to have Superman taken away like that...it really kind of adds insult to injury.

Superman was a Jewishly inspired creation meant to be a nuetral hero for all manking. And I didn't need to see him assume the cross position, get stabbed in the abdomen, watch his body dissapear, and bequeath the holy ghost to his only son.

lol I can't believe I'm this upset after watching a Superman movie.

Since when was he a Jewishly inspired hero?
His religion is never really specified actually.

 

[StarvingArtist]

Since when was he a Jewishly inspired hero?
His religion is never really specified actually.

I said Superman was created as a religiously NUETRAL Superhero. Meaning, his religion is never touched on or hinted out for the very reason that it would alienate certain groups of people. Superman is supposed to be a hero and an example for all mankind.

However, the parents of Jerry Seigel and Joe Shuster were Jewish immigrants who probably fled Russian and Lithuania because of anti-semitism and pogroms (brutal attacks against Jews) like many 1st generation Jews did around that time. Jews certainly faced their share of anti-semitism in the states when they got here as well. I can all but garantee you that Jesus would have been the absolute LAST thing on a couple of 2nd generation Jew's minds like Seigel and Shuster growing up in the 1930's.

That being said, there is no way in hell that Superman was born out of some kind of inspiration from Jesus. If anything, Superman came about because Seigel and Shuster were two nebbish Jews, who regularly got picked on, who also happened to be fans of Tarzan, and Sci Fi stories. It's not that hard to believe that Superman became a catharsis for the two considering Jor-El and Kal-El are hebrew words, Clark Kent is very much a parralel to the mindset of 1930's Jews who very much felt like they had to disguise themselves in order to function in society, when in reality they wished themselves to be invincible to the kind of hate and violence that ran rampant against Jews at that time in Europe as well as the states.

The Jesus metaphors came much later.

 

[Gamma Ray]

Since when was he a Jewishly inspired hero?

Jerry Siegel and Joe Schuster were Jewish.

 

[LongshotRules]

Very well put StarvingArtist. I too can't comprehend why Superman is made to be this messiah character but I am willing to bet it's because of movies like The Passion of Chris proved there's a large audience of Christians willing to shell out lots of money to go see a movie and this is the demographic that WB is targeting. Seriously I am sick of all the movies pandering to the religious rights right now but with Bush and Repubs in power it's inevitable.

 

[Speedball]

Jerry Siegel and Joe Schuster were Jewish.

Yeah, but not all of the writers after them were, they are the ones who really evolved the character, not Siegel and Schuster.

 

[Speedball]

sorry, double post.
Starvingartist, you don't have to tell me what a pogrom is, i'm a history major, I know all about them.

 

[Speedball]

I said Superman was created as a religiously NUETRAL Superhero. Meaning, his religion is never touched on or hinted out for the very reason that it would alienate certain groups of people. Superman is supposed to be a hero and an example for all mankind.

However, the parents of Jerry Seigel and Joe Shuster were Jewish immigrants who probably fled Russian and Lithuania because of anti-semitism and pogroms (brutal attacks against Jews) like many 1st generation Jews did around that time. Jews certainly faced their share of anti-semitism in the states when they got here as well. I can all but garantee you that Jesus would have been the absolute LAST thing on a couple of 2nd generation Jew's minds like Seigel and Shuster growing up in the 1930's.

That being said, there is no way in hell that Superman was born out of some kind of inspiration from Jesus. If anything, Superman came about because Seigel and Shuster were two nebbish Jews, who regularly got picked on, who also happened to be fans of Tarzan, and Sci Fi stories. It's not that hard to believe that Superman became a catharsis for the two considering Jor-El and Kal-El are hebrew words, Clark Kent is very much a parralel to the mindset of 1930's Jews who very much felt like they had to disguise themselves in order to function in society, when in reality they wished themselves to be invincible to the kind of hate and violence that ran rampant against Jews at that time in Europe as well as the states.

The Jesus metaphors came much later.

actually, he was inspired by Hercules at first.

 

[StarvingArtist]

Yeah, but not all of the writers after them were, they are the ones who really evolved the character, not Siegel and Schuster.

Umm...Excuse me? That is one of the most bull**** arguments I have ever heard.

Siegel and Shuster are the veritable parents of Superman. What writers have done since then to Superman, and really ONLY since 1978 with all of the christ allusion and metaphor flies in the face of what the original creators were trying to do and compromises the integrity of the Superman myth for the sake of grabbing the attention of christian conservatives who when they get behind a movie, promote the living hell out of it as a message of gospel.

God, you know, you're exactly the kind of person I was talking about. I can't believe you're actually defending the red hot beef injection of Christ into Superman. You don't have the slightest bit of empathy or knowledge of what Superman is supposed to stand for do you?

I'm not saying don't have the right to indentify Supes with Jesus. Yes, of course you can draw parralels. It isn't that hard. However, you can't simply lay claim to Superman and MAKE him a Jesus figure. I mean, lol you just can't. You can't deny his Jewish roots, and you can't make him a poster child for one specific group. It isn't fair, and it's not ****ing right.

 

[Speedball]

How is that Bull when you said the same thing.

 

[Dark Phantom]

Why is it that everything has to be politically correct with you people. I'm not just talkign about the liberals, but also from another thread where a guy said there wasn't enough minorities in Superman Returns.

Sure, Starving Artist stated how Superman is supposed to be a neutral fictional character when it comes to religon. He made very good points. But I don't understand why biblical allusions can't be used to enhance the movie with powerful scenes. Why can't metaphors connecting to the messiah be translated on screen? I'd have no problem if it was any other religon that Superman would have an allusion to.

Besides, I don't see how it offends anyone. Why is it that Judiasm must be respected, but other religons like Christianity can't? I'm sorry if I'm turning this into a political debate, but its ridiculous. In no way does Superman Returns show any indifference to Jews. Also, its in the eye of the beholder. You can see the allusion of Superman however you want him to be. It doesn't make you any more wrong than another person who thinks differently. I see Superman connected with the messiah. You can see Superman connected with Moses.

Your crazy if you'd want to take out a powerful scene that could help Superman Returns, just because it depicts Superman as Jesus Christ.

Which I'd also remind, Jesus Christ taught nothing but to love your fellow man.

 

[Speedball]

Why is it that everything has to be politically correct with you people. I'm not just talkign about the liberals, but also from another thread where a guy said there wasn't enough minorities in Superman Returns.

Sure, Starving Artist stated how Superman is supposed to be a neutral fictional character when it comes to religon. He made very good points. But I don't understand why biblical allusions can be used to enhance the movie with powerful scenes. Why can't metaphors connecting to the messiah be translated on screen? I'd have no problem if it was any other religon that Superman would have an allusion to.

Besides, I don't see how it offends anyone. Why is it that Judiasm must be respected, but other religons like Christianity can't? I'm sorry if I'm turning this into a political debate, but its ridiculous. In no way does Superman Returns show any indifference to Jews. Also, its in the eye of the beholder. You can see the allusion of Superman however you want him to be. It doesn't make you any more wrong than another person who thinks differently. I see Superman connected with the messiah. You can see Superman connected with Moses.

Your crazy if you'd want to take out a powerful scene that could help Superman Returns, just because it depicts Superman as Jesus Christ.

Which I'd also remind, Jesus Christ taught nothing but to love your fellow man.

GOD!
I hate when people absolutely have to have something be politically correct.
If that's the way you want it, then leave it that way, don't conform just because you fear of offending someone.

 

[celldog]

A Review from a Christian Magazine:

Some interesting perspectives.........

Set as something of a sequel to Richard Donner's Superman (1978) and Superman II (1980), Bryan Singer's new take on the iconic hero begins with Superman's return to Earth after five years away inspecting the remains of his home world Krypton. While he's been out of town, crime and terrorism have escalated in Metropolis and around the globe.

Also back in his old secret identity as a mild-mannered reporter at the Daily Planet, Clark Kent discovers that Lois Lane has moved on from Superman in a big way. Not only is she engaged to and living with Perry White's nephew, Richard, she has a son named Jason. And she is being awarded the Pulitzer for an editorial titled "Why the World Doesn't Need Superman."

Meanwhile, Lex Luthor is out of prison due, in part, to the fact that Superman wasn't available to testify at an appeal hearing. With Kitty Kowalski and several henchmen in tow, Lex breaks into Superman's Fortress of Solitude and hatches a plan to use Kryptonian crystals for a real estate scheme that involves a transcontinental reconfiguration that will kill billions of people. Before long, Lois and Superman must set aside their conflicted feelings for each other to find a way to stop Lex from destroying civilization as we know it.


It's hard to get much more positive than a self-sacrificing hero who fights for "truth, justice and all that stuff," as the Daily Planet's resident old codger/editor Perry White paraphrases Superman's classic mission statement. Indeed, as always, Superman remains almost singularly motivated by doing good for others. Not only does he use his powers to save people from harm in every corner of the globe, he also willingly risks his own life to stop Luthor's plan to obliterate half the world. And, as Lois says, "he never lies."

On the verge of death, Superman remembers the words of his father, Jor-El, that his good actions would inspire others to "moral betterment" as well. In fact, Lois, Richard and young Jason all risk their lives to save Superman and others. Even one of Lex's evil crew boldly defies the evil genius at great personal risk to save others.


Much has been made over the years about the links between the Superman mythology and the story of Jesus. Director Bryan Singer avoids any subtlety in creating those connections afresh. Early in the film, we hear Jor-El telling his son, "Even though you've been raised as a human being you're not one of them. They can be a great people, Kal-El. They wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all—their capacity for good—I have sent them you, my only son."

And Singer's story piles on obvious nods to Jesus' story throughout the film. Lois and Superman discuss at length whether she and the world need a savior. He tells her that with his god-like listening powers, he hears people crying out for one every day. The climactic battle with Lex Luthor escalates the connection. In an effort not to give too much away, let's just say Superman is attacked in a manner similar to the account of Jesus' death and then experiences a kind of resurrection. At one point, he even assumes the physical position of Christ on the cross as he sacrifices himself to save humanity.

Singer, who is Jewish, doesn't deny the connections between Superman and Jesus, but his statements make clear that he doesn't intend the film as any kind of explicitly Christian story. (And the story's hints at Superman's sexual indiscretions lend credence to his case.) Still, many Christians will make use of the similarities as a springboard to point people to the good news of Jesus. In his new book called The Gospel According to the World's Greatest Superhero, author Stephen Skelton goes to great lengths to reveal how writers for Superman comics, radio scripts, TV shows and movies have intentionally modeled the Man of Steel after the Man of Sorrows. He points out that the "El" in Jor-El and Kal-El can also be seen as the Hebrew name for God. He references the phenomenon of Superman's death and resurrection in the comic book series in the early '90s. In fact, he says in the intro to his book, "I know who Superman really is," explicitly referencing the greatest hero as a picture of Jesus Christ.

And while there's value utilizing any tool available to help others see their need for a Savior, it's important that we don't lose the message that what we need saving from is our own sinfulness. The Bible teaches that Jesus came to die the death we deserved because of our rebellion against God. In that message, Superman Returns parts company with Scripture. When Jor-El suggests that humans can be a great people if someone will simply show them the way, he stops short of the truth that by nature humans are a self-serving, self-destructive people who deserve eternal death apart from God. We needed a Savior to die that death for us, to give us the opportunity through Him to spend eternity with the God our sin keeps us from.

That's not the message of Superman Returns. And it doesn't need to be. It's a great story all on its own.


Superman Returns limits its sexual quotient to small amounts of mild dialogue and innuendo. An old and dying woman leaving her fortune to new husband Lex Luthor says that he showed her "pleasures she had never known." Lois calls another woman a "hooker." Perry says that one of the three things that sells newspapers is sex (and that Lois "can't write worth a d--n about sex.") Richard mentions an article Lois wrote called "I Spent the Night With Superman," which she claims was a misleading title. In resisting an assignment, she says, "I've done Superman," not meaning it as it comes across to her newsroom.

[Spoiler Warning] It eventually becomes apparent that Superman and Lois do have some kind of sexual history. In this film, however, they share only a romantic late-night flight around the city and a chaste kiss. It's worth noting, again, that Lois and Richard never bothered to get married before "settling down" together as a family. (The story treats their decision to do so as unremarkable.)


Though the obvious body count is kept (unrealistically) low, Superman Returns turns in some pretty intense sequences. Criminals use a high-powered electronically fired Gatling gun (usually mounted on attack helicopters)to shoot up police cars; Superman intervenes with his body and the bullets bounce away. (We get treated to a slow-motion close-up shot of one hunk of lead crumpling against his eyeball.) A speeding car with no brakes careens wildly through the city, threatening crowds of people.

Lois gets tossed hard and repeatedly into the bulkhead of a plummeting jetliner. She is also beaten badly by one of Luthor's large henchmen who obviously intends to kill her. (So as not to give away a heavy plot point, I'll just say that he gets a piano dropped on him for his efforts.) Lois, Richard and Jason are for some time trapped and almost drown in a sinking ship.

Superman is brutally beaten and stabbed. He nearly drowns, and he plummets from space. At one point, the world holds its breath as it contemplates the possibility that he will die. Lex's evil plan results in a kind of earthquake under Metropolis. Buildings are shaken. Window glass, gigantic signs and the huge globe that tops the Daily Planet building all fall from skyscrapers. A gas line erupts, threatening the entire city. Elsewhere, a mass of rock tumbles in a similar earthquake, killing several bad guys.

On opposite ends of the violence spectrum, Krypton is shown blowing up, and Kitty slaps Lex across the face.


God's name is interjected a half-dozen times. The camera cuts away before a man can complete the phrase, "holy s---." "D--n" is uttered a handful of times.


Clark Kent and Jimmy Olson drink beers in a bar. Both seem a little tipsy. Lois and Richard drink wine at home. Lex smokes several cigars. Lois' secret smoking habit is revealed—as is Superman's windy efforts to keep her from lighting up.


A pair of abandoned puppies is reduced to one, and we see it chewing on what looks like the remains of the other. Low on food, Lex begins to eye the remaining pooch.


With his X-Men-earned superhero cred in his back pocket and carrying a world of expectations on his shoulders, director Bryan Singer has mostly done it. Superman is back in a huge way, and the big fella in the primary colors again has a bright future ahead of him. Although painstakingly faithful to the spirit of the images so permanently embedded into our culture thanks to actor Christopher Reeve nearly three decades ago, Singer's approach mostly avoids the campy feel of those movies—either a good thing or a bad thing depending on how fondly you remember them.

Newcomer Brandon Routh fills Reeve's shoes solidly (but not superbly), believable for most of the film as both man of virtue and man of steel. In Kate Bosworth's hands, Lois is a little more grounded this time around. And Kevin Spacey makes a fine hammy, evil Lex, though we're given no understanding, really, of how he could so casually, eagerly plan to kill billions of people without a tweak of conscience. He's a little too monstrous to be believed.

The real stars of the film, though, are the effects sequences. Superman's rescue of a plummeting jetliner is executed so stunningly that it really feels like the return of a long-lost hero. Shots of Superman flying are more authentic-looking than ever. In one of the best moments of the film, a young Clark Kent on the farm in Kansas runs through corn fields, making huge leaps with utter joy splashed across his face. Then he discovers he can, not fly exactly, but hover right above the ground. Who doesn't want to be able to do that?

Conversely, one of the hardest scenes to watch is Superman being kicked and maimed and pierced. And that brings me back to the obvious connections between Superman and Jesus. While they give the movie some spiritual resonance, I actually found them distracting, taking me out of the Superman story and into trying to figure out what Singer and his writers were aiming for in the subtext.

Finally, the state of Superman's relationships with Lois, her son and Richard adds a layer both to the Superman myth and to all those supposed spiritual connections that's a bit unsettling. The resulting uneasy, untraditional family grouping risks tarnishing Kal-El's rock-solid goodness, and it gives the finale just a whiff of soap opera. Lots of kids like to think of their dad as secretly being Superman, but I'd like to think of Superman as a guy who's above being someone's secret dad.

 

[Dark Phantom]

GOD!
I hate when people absolutely have to have something be politically correct.
If that's the way you want it, then leave it that way, don't conform just because you fear of offending someone.

Exactly.
And its the liberals who bring it upon themselves. I'm sure Bryan Singer had no intention of bashing other religons, if that's the reaction some are giving him.

But just to show you how ridiculous this really is. Give me your favorite movie you like. I'm serious. Name a movie and I'll make the most outlandsih claim that one of the scenes depcits Jesus Christ. See where I'm driving at? It's all in the mind. You determine for yourself what scenes in movies symbolize. There's nothing that says its wrong.

 

[Speedball]

Exactly.
And its the liberals who bring it upon themselves. I'm sure Bryan Singer had no intention of bashing other religons, if that's the reaction some are giving him.

But just to show you how ridiculous this really is. Give me your favorite movie you like. I'm serious. Name a movie and I'll make the most outlandsih claim that one of the scenes depcits Jesus Christ. See where I'm driving at? It's all in the mind. You determine for yourself what scenes in movies symbolize. There's nothing that says its wrong.

That commercial i saw was right, our country is spliting apart at the seams. Another Civil War IS one the way.

 

[celldog]

Exactly.
And its the liberals who bring it upon themselves. I'm sure Bryan Singer had no intention of bashing other religons, if that's the reaction some are giving him.

But just to show you how ridiculous this really is. Give me your favorite movie you like. I'm serious. Name a movie and I'll make the most outlandsih claim that one of the scenes depcits Jesus Christ. See where I'm driving at? It's all in the mind. You determine for yourself what scenes in movies symbolize. There's nothing that says its wrong.

Good Grief.....mention Jesus and you guys freak totally out!! It's just a perspective relevant to the title of this thread........

 

[StarvingArtist]

Why is it that everything has to be politically correct with you people. I'm not just talkign about the liberals, but also from another thread where a guy said there wasn't enough minorities in Superman Returns.

There is a big difference between being politically correct and using Superman as a vehicle for Christianity. I'll explain how the movie does just that in a sec.

Sure, Starving Artist stated how Superman is supposed to be a neutral fictional character when it comes to religon. He made very good points. But I don't understand why biblical allusions can't be used to enhance the movie with powerful scenes. Why can't metaphors connecting to the messiah be translated on screen? I'd have no problem if it was any other religon that Superman would have an allusion to.

I never said that biblical allusions CAN'T be made. I welcome them! However...it's another thing when you depict Superman assuming the crucifixion pose, getting the **** beat out of him shortly before stabbing him in the abdomen, "sacrificing" himself for mankind, the surprise of the nurses that his body has vanished, the speech he says to his son at the end of the movie, and even the entire crux of the story being about what happens when "messiahs return." Are you really going to tell me that is wasn't laid on just a tad thick?

Besides, I don't see how it offends anyone. Why is it that Judiasm must be respected, but other religons like Christianity can't? I'm sorry if I'm turning this into a political debate, but its ridiculous. In no way does Superman Returns show any indifference to Jews. Also, its in the eye of the beholder. You can see the allusion of Superman however you want him to be. It doesn't make you any more wrong than another person who thinks differently. I see Superman connected with the messiah. You can see Superman connected with Moses.

So every movie that doesn't have some kind of Christ allegory is disrespecting Christianity? I'm not following that argument. It is possible to have a Superman movie NOT have religious imagery. There is simply no need for it. Superman is a superhero and whatever religious parralels one could deduce are there by default. No need to spin it one way or the other and give it a bias. Doing so flys in the face of what Superman is supposed to stand for. To be honest, it was reeeeaaaallly hard for me to associate Superman with Moses in this movie.

Your crazy if you'd want to take out a powerful scene that could help Superman Returns, just because it depicts Superman as Jesus Christ.

What you fail to understand is that Jesus Christ does not hold the same power for others as it does for you. To some it can even be considered offensive. Therefore the power of a scene like that is only in the eye of the beholder and is not nuetral in its appeal.

Which I'd also remind, Jesus Christ taught nothing but to love your fellow man.

I know, and its a damn shame how humanity has perverted his message and slaughtered millions in his name.

 

[celldog]

Would you feel better if he was "Buddha-like"??

 

[NotFadeAway]

Lets not get too religious with Superman, any conversation dealing with religion never ends well!!!!

 

[Speedball]

Would you feel better if he was "Buddha-like"??

Well, he kind of is actually. He left to go find himself, then returned a greater man.