Discussion: All Things Union

[Violet Lantern]

Tell the Unions to do their own work without "the Boss". They won't have work to begin with. It's a symbiotic relationship between "workers" and "Boss". But Unions don't have to be in the mix. "Employee" and "Union" is two completely different things.

No it's not and that's what you fail to understand. Unions are the employees working together collectively. They have every right to do so. After all, that's what a company is anyhow.

A Union only exists because those within it don't have the back bone to stand up for them selves, and thus need a mob mentality to make changes or demands.

My mother has more backbone than you could ever hope to.

 

[Kelly]

I think Unions served the purpose they needed to early on in their history. They certainly were needed then....what they have become is bloated cash cows that at the least need to go on a diet. At least a diet...

 

[SuBe]

I agree Kel. Their purpose has been fulfilled and now are a remnant of a past time that is ready to go.

 

[Violet Lantern]

You guys are seriously deluded if you think businesses are just going to behave on their own. Good God.

 

[SuBe]

It's called Free Market Capitalism. It happens all of the time. Just not as much as it used to. If a company does bad, consumers move elsewhere. If the company wants to do better, it produces better products and services. To produce better products and services, it hires better people and retains them. To retain better people, you offer better benefits. It's actually really, really easy to understand.

We don't need Government and Unions dictating to us what needs to be done. The Invisible Hand of the Economy will do that.

 

[chaseter]

I made a union thread fyi...

 

[SuBe]

Where?

 

[chaseter]

Yes, I'm sure that big business has learned it's lesson now, and the Unions can just all go away. I'm sure that won't lead to any kind of backslide in workers' rights or benefits. You're very naive in your trust of business.

Do you live in 1920 or something?

 

[SuBe]

The Unobtainable Progressive Utopia is ageless.

 

[Violet Lantern]

The only reason working conditions and employee benefits have moved beyond 1920 is because of the efforts of union organization. You have ZERO common sense if you think businesses will behave on their own.

We don't need Government and Unions dictating to us what needs to be done. The Invisible Hand of the Economy will do that.

The historical evidence is overwhelmingly against you. The "Invisible Hand of the Economy"(whose altar you slavishly worship at) did jack squat to treat workers right prior to unionization.

 

[Violet Lantern]

The Unobtainable Progressive Utopia is ageless.

:strawman:

 

[SuBe]

:strawman:

Blah Blah

 

[Matt]

I believe that certain fields still require a union. Police officers, for example. Aside from having one to ensure that people who are putting their lives on the line are protected and treated well, they need someone to fight for them if someone starts crying abuse or a politician decides to make an example of these men or women to make themselves look good.

 

[Matt]

I believe that certain fields still require a union. Police officers, for example. Aside from having one to ensure that people who are putting their lives on the line are protected and treated well, they need someone to fight for them if someone starts crying abuse or a politician decides to make an example of these men or women to make themselves look good.

 

[BlackLantern]

Every job I have had since 23 was not a union job and I got paid, got looked after, and was never mistreated. The union today is obsolete and bloated, it needs to be overhauled if it is to survive. More and more jobs have a non unionization policy.

 

[SuBe]

Government Workers definitely do not need to be Unionized. Even FDR in his infinite wisdom knew that. The Collapse in Greece is due to Government Obligations and Union Pensions. Watch the crash in State Governments due to the same thing.

 

[chaseter]

The only reason working conditions and employee benefits have moved beyond 1920 is because of the efforts of union organization. You have ZERO common sense if you think businesses will behave on their own.



The historical evidence is overwhelmingly against you. The "Invisible Hand of the Economy"(whose altar you slavishly worship at) did jack squat to treat workers right prior to unionization.

What have they done in the past two decades? You should be able to answer that.

 

[Violet Lantern]

What have they done in the past two decades? You should be able to answer that.

Good job at entirely missing the point there.

 

[chaseter]

Good job at entirely missing the point there.

Good job at dodging a question

 

[BlackLantern]

In my state, the past 2 decades unions have driven out various industries and manufacturing jobs. The brass industry, which used to be very prominent here, not to mention thr numerous work stoppages at Sikorsky Helicoptor

 

[chaseter]

I enjoy paying into my own retirement and also into public employee union retirements.

 

[Violet Lantern]

Good job at dodging a question

It's not what Unions have done in the last 20 years. It's what they did in the mid-20th century, which workers are still reaping benefits from. Remove Unions, and those gains will be reversed over time. If you think otherwise you don't understand business. They only care about maximizing their profit lines not treating their workers the way they deserve.

 

[Violet Lantern]

In my state, the past 2 decades unions have driven out various industries and manufacturing jobs. The brass industry, which used to be very prominent here, not to mention thr numerous work stoppages at Sikorsky Helicoptor

Um, yeah, that's because companies refused to agree to workers' demands.

Do you also blame rape victims for dressing too sexy?

 

[Kelly]

2 problems I see with Unions are...

• Anti-competitiveness. Unions are victims of their own success. Unions raised their wages substantially above the wages paid to nonunion workers. Therefore, many union-made products have become so expensive that sales were lost to less expensive foreign competitors and other product producing companies that are non-union. Therefore hurting the company they work for.
• Decline in the word "merit" it has turned into "mediocrity". In many union companies, workers can't advance much or at all on their own merits, but must generally move forward within the limits defined by union contracts. Employers may have trouble weeding out ineffective employees if they belong to unions (perfect example: Teaching field...the President talked about getting rid of bad teachers last night, well I wish him luck with that one, in big union states for teachers like New York? Not gonna happen.) In theory, at least, unionized workers might become so comfortable and protected that they lose the incentive to work hard for their employer. And outstanding employees might lose their desire to do their very best if there's no incentive to do so -- or worse, if they're pressured by the union to not go the extra mile at all, or in unions that are actually part of the public services, strike and leave the people that they are supposed to be helping, out in the cold...which we have recently seen.

Just as Marxism looked wonderful on paper, and his thoughts for the worker were for their good, it was not, and is not sustainable.....unions are not sustainable, plain and simple.

 

[SuBe]

In my state, the past 2 decades unions have driven out various industries and manufacturing jobs. The brass industry, which used to be very prominent here, not to mention thr numerous work stoppages at Sikorsky Helicoptor

Look at any State that is Non Union and any State that is Union. Where is the Poverty and Misery?