San Francisco At It Again

[hippie_hunter]

I think it's a little too much to have industry regulate worker's rights. This isn't the MPAA or the ESRB. There is going to be some jackass who simply will not care at all about workers rights.

The laws we have right now are sufficent enough in my opinion.

 

[hippie_hunter]

with the extremely high cost of living in sf, you'd have to have some serious capital to even think about opening your own business there. if they've got enough money for that then they can afford to give their employees a few sick days a year, like maybe limiting them to 5 a year. doesn't seem like it would bankrupt the businesses that way.

Considering that it is San Fransisco, I do agree with you that 5 a year sounds sensible. Things like paid sick leave and raising the minimum wage aren't bad for business as long as they aren't extreme and as long as business gets the chance to settle down with the increase in costs. 9 days is just way too much.

 

[Matt]

that... doesn't make any sense.

I think that is sort of the point.

 

[StorminNorman]

I think it's a little too much to have industry regulate worker's rights. This isn't the MPAA or the ESRB. There is going to be some jackass who simply will not care at all about workers rights.

The laws we have right now are sufficent enough in my opinion.

Industry was the wrong term - the market should regulate it. However even that may be slightly unrealistic at this point.

I would agree that the current laws have are sufficient at this point - I just don't want to see MORE government control on the economy. Its a reason why I don't to see national healthcare - if the government has a monopoly, we will never get the innovations that we have. America has a much more advanced health care than countries such as Canada for a reason.

I wish the government would end their monopolies on the school system. A commercialized school system in America would improve things greatly.

 

[Matt]

I think it's a little too much to have industry regulate worker's rights. This isn't the MPAA or the ESRB. There is going to be some jackass who simply will not care at all about workers rights.

The laws we have right now are sufficent enough in my opinion.

Agreed. You cannot expect the industry to regulate itself because people even with ****ty jobs and benefits still have to work them to make a living. A lot of people don't have the option to go find better work. None the less...the force a business to pay for a service they did not recieve is wrong.

If I go into a restraunt and order food and do not recieve it, should I pay for it? No. Because I did not recieve my food. That is what the employer/employee relationship essentially is. Exchange of goods (service for money). You do not pay someone for a service you do not recieve.

 

[Matt]

Industry was the wrong term - the market should regulate it. However even that may be slightly unrealistic at this point.

I would agree that the current laws have are sufficient at this point - I just don't want to see MORE government control on the economy. Its a reason why I don't to see national healthcare - if the government has a monopoly, we will never get the innovations that we have. America has a much more advanced health care than countries such as Canada for a reason.

I wish the government would end their monopolies on the school system. A commercialized school system in America would improve things greatly.

I like free healthcare for children and certain others. I don't think it should be entirely universal though. As for schools, what happens to people who cannot afford commercialized education? Are they simply **** out of luck? I don't think the government goes far enough with education. I think there should be free state ran universities. Sure, the quality would not be as good as a private school but at least everyone who wants a diploma could get one.

 

[StorminNorman]

I like free healthcare for children and certain others. I don't think it should be entirely universal though. As for schools, what happens to people who cannot afford commercialized education? Are they simply **** out of luck? I don't think the government goes far enough with education. I think there should be free state ran universities. Sure, the quality would not be as good as a private school but at least everyone who wants a diploma could get one.

All children should be protected, I agree.

The way commercialized schools would work is that the money the government spends on a child to go to school would be given to the parent to decide where to send their child to school. Of course they wouldn't be actually given the money, but they would decide where their child should be taught. That way you would have schools FORCED to have the best education - or else they don't get students and thus no funding. Not only would you have schools forced to perform, but you would also have schools that look for new and different ways of teaching children. If a child doesn't fit well in the current school format - they would be able to go to a school that better fits with his way of learning. That way no child TRULY gets left behind.

As far as free colleges go - many states have free ride scholarships for in-state public universities, as long as they keep up their grades and what not. This is all paid for by the state lottery. I would like to see systems like that established through all 50 states.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Industry was the wrong term - the market should regulate it. However even that may be slightly unrealistic at this point.

I would agree that the current laws have are sufficient at this point - I just don't want to see MORE government control on the economy. Its a reason why I don't to see national healthcare - if the government has a monopoly, we will never get the innovations that we have. America has a much more advanced health care than countries such as Canada for a reason.

I wish the government would end their monopolies on the school system. A commercialized school system in America would improve things greatly.

I agree with you on health care. Since my father is in the military I get government health care. In Virginia, it's great, but up here in New York it blows. So a lot of my beleifs are based on personal experience.

As for education I disagree. I beleive that the national government should take it away from the states. A reason why I beleive in small government is because I think that government hand-me outs hinder human potential. But education enhances that potential. Instead of hindering potential why not have the government take part in enhancing it.

The problem with our education system, and again this is from personal experience, is that the states are teaching different things. In one state you have schools teaching children Spanish or French in seventh grade, in another you have schools teaching no foreign language. In one state you have one grade teaching one class in one grade and in another, the same one in a different grade. We need to have all schools teach the same things at the same time periods. We need to get more rigorous in our educational system.

Another problem is that many students are simply not motivated. We need to get students motivated to work in school.

Also the final problem is that we rely on too much on test scores. We need to focus on the skills in science, math, history, etc. Not test scores.

 

[enterthemadness]

those wacky San Frans.

I just wanted to say that.

 

[Matt]

All children should be protected, I agree.

The way commercialized schools would work is that the money the government spends on a child to go to school would be given to the parent to decide where to send their child to school. Of course they wouldn't be actually given the money, but they would decide where their child should be taught. That way you would have schools FORCED to have the best education - or else they don't get students and thus no funding. Not only would you have schools forced to perform, but you would also have schools that look for new and different ways of teaching children. If a child doesn't fit well in the current school format - they would be able to go to a school that better fits with his way of learning. That way no child TRULY gets left behind.

Hmm, a good idea in theory...but still...wouldn't the children going to the less attended schools that do not make enough money just get screwed?

As far as free colleges go - many states have free ride scholarships for in-state public universities, as long as they keep up their grades and what not. This is all paid for by the state lottery. I would like to see systems like that established through all 50 states.

A lot of those scholarships are hard to get though. The average students with a 3.0 or 2.5 are unable to get those. In fact, most go to the students with 4.0 GPAs who get all the private scholarships and free-rides from their school anyhow. That is why I think each state should have a state-ran free university. Cut down on things that aren't essential (i.e., Professors are paid to teach, not do research. No on-campus living, etc). I think it would open the doors for many young Americans.

 

[Addendum]

A couple of weeks ago I saw an article in the Commercial Appeal in Memphis about the lottery scholarship in the state. Around 60% of the recipients dropped out of college after the first year.

 

[StorminNorman]

Hmm, a good idea in theory...but still...wouldn't the children going to the less attended schools that do not make enough money just get screwed?

If the school was not performing - they would be able to go to one of the other, more performing schools. However, chances are, the school - not wanting would lose the few people they have - would simply have to look for new, more cost-effective methods.

A lot of those scholarships are hard to get though. The average students with a 3.0 or 2.5 are unable to get those. In fact, most go to the students with 4.0 GPAs who get all the private scholarships and free-rides from their school anyhow. That is why I think each state should have a state-ran free university. Cut down on things that aren't essential (i.e., Professors are paid to teach, not do research. No on-campus living, etc). I think it would open the doors for many young Americans.

In Florida any student with a 3.0 or higher gets a free ride to any Community College (which is basically what you are describing, just with a 2 year plan instead of 4). They also get 75% funding to any in-state university.

The idea of state-ran free universities is interesting. However there would have to be some limit - for example, a student with a D+ average in High School does not need an automatic free college. Perhaps set the limit to a 2.5 HS GPA. You would only need one for most states - with perhaps 2 or 3 in a state such as Texas or California or Florida.

 

[Matt]

If the school was not performing - they would be able to go to one of the other, more performing schools. However, chances are, the school - not wanting would lose the few people they have - would simply have to look for new, more cost-effective methods.

Hmm...still...I don't think it would go as smoothly in practice. I think the same inequalities in certain areas would present themselves.

In Florida any student with a 3.0 or higher gets a free ride to any Community College (which is basically what you are describing, just with a 2 year plan instead of 4). They also get 75% funding to any in-state university.

See, PA doesn't have such a system. Our lottery benefits seniors. Damn old people

The idea of state-ran free universities is interesting. However there would have to be some limit - for example, a student with a D+ average in High School does not need an automatic free college. Perhaps set the limit to a 2.5 HS GPA. You would only need one for most states - with perhaps 2 or 3 in a state such as Texas or California or Florida.

Not bad suggestions at all.

 

[Darthphere]

In Florida any student with a 3.0 or higher gets a free ride to any Community College (which is basically what you are describing, just with a 2 year plan instead of 4). They also get 75% funding to any in-state university.

Florida Bright Futures Scholarship.

 

[StorminNorman]

I agree with you on health care. Since my father is in the military I get government health care. In Virginia, it's great, but up here in New York it blows. So a lot of my beleifs are based on personal experience.

As for education I disagree. I beleive that the national government should take it away from the states. A reason why I beleive in small government is because I think that government hand-me outs hinder human potential. But education enhances that potential. Instead of hindering potential why not have the government take part in enhancing it.

The problem with our education system, and again this is from personal experience, is that the states are teaching different things. In one state you have schools teaching children Spanish or French in seventh grade, in another you have schools teaching no foreign language. In one state you have one grade teaching one class in one grade and in another, the same one in a different grade. We need to have all schools teach the same things at the same time periods. We need to get more rigorous in our educational system.

Another problem is that many students are simply not motivated. We need to get students motivated to work in school.

Also the final problem is that we rely on too much on test scores. We need to focus on the skills in science, math, history, etc. Not test scores.

But see, not only do you have those problems - but students are being forced into schools that are not performing well. There is no out. Plus I disagree with teaching every child the same thing - not all kids are college material. A kid that wants to be a mechanic should not be forced to take spanish.

By having it commercialized, you would have specialty schools for those that want to become mechanics. It would create a more specialized work force.

Also if a school is producing under-performing students, then people wont be forced into the school and the government wont be wasting money on an ineffective system.

 

[StorminNorman]

Florida Bright Futures Scholarship.

What college you looking at?

 

[Darthphere]

What college you looking at?

UM or FIU, all depending on the money situation. Scholarships are fun.

 

[StorminNorman]

Hmm...still...I don't think it would go as smoothly in practice. I think the same inequalities in certain areas would present themselves.

It would take a few years before the all the kinks got worked out - however in theory it would be little different than any other business. A Shopping Market sells lack luster produce and questionable meat. A market 10 miles away sells high quality produce and great meat - at the same price. PLUS they have a bus system that makes up for the 10 min drive. The first store will have no customers - so either they go out of business, or clean up their act.

It has been working for public schools for years.

See, PA doesn't have such a system. Our lottery benefits seniors. Damn old people

Why don't they just die already

Not bad suggestions at all.

I try

 

[StorminNorman]

UM or FIU, all depending on the money situation. Scholarships are fun.

I wanted to go to UM - but I couldn't raise the money for a private school.

UCF here I come

 

[Darthphere]

I wanted to go to UM - but I couldn't raise the money for a private school.

UCF here I come

Yeah, my main goal was to stay in South Florida to free load off my parents as long as possible.

 

[StorminNorman]

Yeah, my main goal was to stay in South Florida to free load off my parents as long as possible.

My parents would probably charge me more to live at home that I would at college.

 

[Darthphere]

My parents would probably charge me more to live at home that I would at college.

I'm hispanic. We're expected to live with our parents for life. Fact.

 

[Matt]

Plus I disagree with teaching every child the same thing - not all kids are college material. A kid that wants to be a mechanic should not be forced to take spanish.

By having it commercialized, you would have specialty schools for those that want to become mechanics. It would create a more specialized work force.

I agree with that. Even if the government doesn't wish to privatize, we would have a much more productive education system with public vocation schools.

 

[hippie_hunter]

But see, not only do you have those problems - but students are being forced into schools that are not performing well. There is no out. Plus I disagree with teaching every child the same thing - not all kids are college material. A kid that wants to be a mechanic should not be forced to take spanish.

By having it commercialized, you would have specialty schools for those that want to become mechanics. It would create a more specialized work force.

Also if a school is producing under-performing students, then people wont be forced into the school and the government wont be wasting money on an ineffective system.

Again this is from personal experience and switching school systems from state to state is a pain in the ass. Also a second language should be learned in our schools. We are facing a rapidly rising hispanic population and all over the world kids in schools are learning English. We need to spend more on our schools, local government cannot afford it, but if we manage our budget and not waste money on things such as...say...going to war in Iraq, the federal government could definetely pick up the slack.

Although I really like your idea of specialty training

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Worker's rights are needed - however they should be regulated by the industry. If a company wants the best workers - they will offer the best benefits. If a company couldn't care less about what they hire - their business will suffer. It pays for them to take care of the people that take care of them.

you're kind of hopeful about this, but overly anxious about the impact the san francisco decision could have on businesses.

weird.