Discussion: All Things Union

[chaseter]

The only reason we're here in the 21st century, in so far as worker's rights and benefits, is thanks to unions.

The only reason states have massive debt and are on the verge of bankruptcy is thanks to unions.

 

[Violet Lantern]

See, RIGHT THERE....shows me you do not read my posts.....so move on, if you are not going to read posts, then you are blind in your replies and worth nothing to me in a debate. HAD you read my posts you would have seen me say SEVERAL TIMES, that unions had their place in their early history. I was actually thinking I might be able to debate with you on an intelligent level, and maybe enjoy it. Wrong...

One thing I have noticed though, it is obvious you are skimming at the least, because unless you are a speed reader, all you are doing is posting your opinion with no regard to anyone elses....in political discourse that is called ignorance of opinion.

I read that! For God's sake, I ****ing directly responded to it. Like I said, they STILL have their place. Their continued presence keeps the benefits and rights they gained for workers in the 20th century from going away.

I AM a speed reader, thank you very much. When I was in the 4th grade I tested as reading at an 11th grade level. I started reading "adult" novels(like John Grisham) when I about 10.

 

[Violet Lantern]

The only reason states have massive debt and are on the verge of bankruptcy is thanks to unions.

You're either trolling me or you're completely insane.

 

[BlackLantern]

But many places get by fine without unions. My job, for one. The job my mom has had for 25 years for two. Are there specific industries that do or do not need unions?

 

[Violet Lantern]

But many places get by fine without unions. My job, for one. The job my mom has had for 25 years for two. Are there specific industries that do or do not need unions?

I can't imagine service workers who work off of tips mainly need Unions. So I don't think there's really a need for Servers' Unions or a Stripper Union.

 

[BlackLantern]

Im in tech/merchant support. But my job makes people sign an acknowledgement that the company is an at will employer. But I get breaks and a lunch and a biweekly paycheck.

 

[SuBe]

You don't think there is a need for Service Unions? Does the SEIU mean anything to you? They are the biggest union in the States. If you don't think we need them, then how can we need any of them?

Also, how did man survive all these thousands of years without Unions?

 

[chaseter]

You're either trolling me or you're completely insane.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/editorials/ban-government-employee-unions

I am sure you won't read that but one thing to note in it is that only 7.3% of private employees are unionized. That means that 92.7% are not. But, that is just a little tidbit in there amongst the massive amounts of details showing how public employee unions have ruined this country.

 

[Violet Lantern]

You don't think there is a need for Service Unions? Does the SEIU mean anything to you? They are the biggest union in the States. If you don't think we need them, then how can we need any of them?

I said service employees who work off of mainly tips. Reading comprehension is your friend.

Also, how did man survive all these thousands of years without Unions?

Well for one thing, man didn't live in an industrialized capitalist economy until the 19th century really.

 

[SuBe]

Economics never change. The Supply of Goods to meet demands never change.

 

[chaseter]

Think of all the good things the USPS has done in the past and all the innovations they spearhearded up until the advent of the internet. So should we continue to throw money at the USPS since they did so much good in the past or should we come to the realization that maybe the USPS should scale back or be shut down instead of hemorrhaging tax payer money?

I think Lantern lives in 1920 in a magic place where money grows on trees.

 

[Violet Lantern]

http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/editorials/ban-government-employee-unions

I am sure you won't read that but one thing to note in it is that only 7.3% of private employees are unionized. That means that 92.7% are not. But, that is just a little tidbit in there amongst the massive amounts of details showing how public employee unions have ruined this country.

As the Heritage Foundation's James Sherk points out, these numbers ought to be red flags for taxpayers because "government employees don't strike to get higher wages from a private business -- they strike to get higher wages from you."

"Their pay is funded through your tax dollars," he adds. "For government employee union members to get more, your taxes need to go up. So that is what unions now lobby for."

 

[chaseter]

Which is why states are nearly bankrupt. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Violet Lantern]

Yeah I really trust someone from the Heritage Foundation.

"Unions lobby for your taxes to go up"

 

[Arc-Light]

LOL oh Chaseter.....Unions keep Big Fat Corp at bay......hell you might be right without Unions i could go to work at the old age of 9....

 

[chaseter]

Their pay is from your taxes. Yeah I can totally see how that is an unfounded statement. If taxes aren't raised, states will go bankrupt and all those little promises to unions to pay their pensions will be null/void/zip/zilch/gone. It is what California is doing. They have to raise their taxes to pay for all the pension and entitlement spending and that is driving businesses and people out of the state which then decrease tax revenue. It is a wonderful game of shoot yourself in the foot.

 

[chaseter]

LOL oh Chaseter.....Unions keep Big Fat Corp at bay......hell you might be right without Unions i could go to work at the old age of 9....

The minute we do away with unions businesses will open up their doors to 9 year olds and make them work 16 hours a day.

 

[dnno1]

Which is why states are nearly bankrupt. Thanks for proving my point.

States are bankrupt because they are have revenue shortfalls as a result of high unemployment. Eliminating unions won't solve that problem. It only gives employers the ability to exploit their laborers in the interest of turning a extra buck or two. The right to unionize is fundamental and inalienable and it would be unconstitutional for any government to ban them.

 

[Violet Lantern]

States are bankrupt because they are have revenue shortfalls as a result of high unemployment. Eliminating unions won't solve that problem. It only gives employers the ability to exploit their laborers in the interest of turning a extra buck or two. The right to unionize is fundamental and inalienable and it would be unconstitutional for any government to ban them.

I second this.

I'd argue that to ban the right of employees to organize would be a violation of the 1st amendment right to free assembly.

 

[BlackLantern]

You're right, but private companies make their anti union stance known to potential employees. My job, for instance, I had to sign an acknowldgement that I understood my companies policy on that matter.

This must be a regional thing. I don't know anyone who is in a union or has a union job.

 

[chaseter]

States are bankrupt because they are have revenue shortfalls as a result of high unemployment. Eliminating unions won't solve that problem. It only gives employers the ability to exploit their laborers in the interest of turning a extra buck or two. The right to unionize is fundamental and inalienable and it would be unconstitutional for any government to ban them.

So States weren't having any troubles until 2008 when the recession hit? California was in the black in 2007?

You can have a right to unionize, but it shouldn't be a right for the public sector and you can't overlook the fact that unions are corrupt and antiquated. Imagine how many more workers would have a job right now if the money that went into unions was given to companies. Imagine how much less things would cost if unions members didn't make outrageous salaries. You think an auto worker deserves $40-70k a year? Someone already posted the story about a union declining cuts to save jobs and thousands of their own members were then laid off. Rofl at unions.

 

[Arc-Light]

So States weren't having any troubles until 2008 when the recession hit? California was in the black in 2007?

You can have a right to unionize, but it shouldn't be a right for the public sector and you can't overlook the fact that unions are corrupt and antiquated. Imagine how many more workers would have a job right now if the money that went into unions was given to companies. Imagine how much less things would cost if unions members didn't make outrageous salaries. You think an auto worker deserves $40-70k a year? Someone already posted the story about a union declining cuts to save jobs and thousands of their own members were then laid off. Rofl at unions.

Wow you have been watching to many movies to think most unions are crrupted, if it wasnt for a union my father would have lost his job for something he didnt do.....if you aren't in a union then there is nothing to worry about paying extra taxes...and i have a counter to your story about unions declining cuts...look up what UPS did to their pilots a couple years ago.they fired 50 pilots so the IPA asked the remaining pilots to take a pay cut to keep the 50 pilots around they voted yes......but it wasn't enough and UPS fired them a year or two later.....here is the kicker..................IF THE CEO'S AND EXECUTIVES OF UPS TOOK A PAY CUT( of course they didn't ).......those 50-100 pilots would still have jobs for the rest of their careers.

 

[BlackLantern]

the only thing to worry about is the company getting tired of dealing with the union, pulling up stakes, and going elsewhere

 

[chaseter]

Wow you have been watching to many movies to think most unions are crrupted, if it wasnt for a union my father would have lost his job for something he didnt do.....if you aren't in a union then there is nothing to worry about paying extra taxes...and i have a counter to your story about unions declining cuts...look up what UPS did to their pilots a couple years ago.they fired 50 pilots so the IPA asked the remaining pilots to take a pay cut to keep the 50 pilots around they voted yes......but it wasn't enough and UPS fired them a year or two later.....here is the kicker..................IF THE CEO'S AND EXECUTIVES OF UPS TOOK A PAY CUT( of course they didn't ).......those 50-100 pilots would still have jobs for the rest of their careers.

I like how you say I watch too many movies that demonize unions and then you turn around and talk about evil CEOs.

This isn't the All Thing CEO thread. If you want to discuss the evil things CEOs do, go make a thread.

I also love the recent string of ________ helped out my family so it's good.

Call up these fifteen and tell them how much unions helped out your father. I am sure they will love your story.
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/...nville-firefighters-reject-citys-pay-cut-plan

 

[WildcatNC]

Unions definitely need reform, I wasn't arguing otherwise.

ANY organization (business, union, church, etc.) is likely to get corrupt when money is involved.

As long as the right of workers to organize is preserved then we could certainly scale back union power in light of current federal laws. There is no reason for button pushers to make 40$ an hour and some of the waste and crap we see in unions now. To bad nobody can ever just use common sense and reason when money is involved.

The threat of unions suffice to keep business in line for the most part now. Don't kid yourself that big business wouldn't start undermining what we take for granted if given the opportunity. They would. Our right to organize needs to be preserved whatever would be done.