Discussion: All Things Union

[chaseter]

I find it hilarious that dnno thinks high speed rail in Wisconsin is going to be a successful venture.

 

[BlackLantern]

there is ZERO logical reason we don't have some sort of high speed rail across the country at this point

oh wait...it's because of the railroad unions stonewalling any attempt to do so

 

[Franklin Richards]

Highspeed rail is a win-win. Jobs. Infrastructure. Lower emissions. More transportation to and from work.


What's the problem? Is it just that you don't want to give credit to those damn lefties for having a good idea?

 

[chaseter]

We don't have high speed rail across this country because it would be expensive, we have a lot of pesky mountains, it would have to stop often, and it would be slower than a plane to get from A to B.

But Wisconsin of all places...for a high speed rail...ridiculous. High speed rail only works between two places with high populations that would use it often and it would have to be cheaper and faster than a plane trip.

 

[BlackLantern]

current rail lines can be replaced or upgraded...the issue is too many profit from the old way

 

[chaseter]

current rail lines can be replaced or upgraded...the issue is too many profit from the old way

Current rails weave and have turns. High speed rails need straight tracks or very, very gradual turns because it goes 200mph. Our current railroad infrastructure looks like veins...that isn't going to work. They would have to build a lot of new lines. It also could not intersect any road what so ever.

High speed rails would certainly might work between high density areas but Amtrak can't even make a profit so I doubt a high speed rail would. High speed rail certainly would not work coast to coast and it certainly has no feasibility up in Wisconsin/Montana/South Dakota/Minnesota/etc.

 

[BlackLantern]

true...its not like anyone important lives there anyway...except for Prince

 

[dnno1]

there is ZERO logical reason we don't have some sort of high speed rail across the country at this point

oh wait...it's because of the railroad unions stonewalling any attempt to do so

That's ridiculous and far from the truth. Labor unions welcome high speed rail projects because it means more jobs. According to Trains Magazine, labor unions protested Scott Walker's decision to scrap high speed rail funding in Wisconsin. In spite of you erroneous claims, states like California and Florida are moving on with high speed rail projects after getting their government funding. To say that labor unions had anything to do with blocking any high speed rail projects is a bold face lie. It is actually Republican governors around the country that are in the way of starting projects in their state.

 

[chaseter]

Florida is not moving forward with high speed rails.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/politi...ck-scott-is-done-with-high-speed-rail/1153594

California is...but then again they will do anything short of throwing money into a pit and burning it.

 

[DACrowe]

Corporate America buys GOP politicians so it's okay for unions to buy DNC politicians. More of the 'they do it so we do it'. That is the exact reason why public employee unions were created, to get politicians re-elected. They were born out out of corruption. It's a wonderful country we live in.

Not what I said. Just pointing out the irony of those who support union busting and Walker's union busting bill argue that unions are corrupt and too powerful/influential in the DNC. Yet, the idea of financial services, big pharmaceutical, energy, etc. controlling one party's entire policy is OK. Those who want Union busting tend to support Citizens United.

Not such a defense, as an observation.

 

[chaseter]

But nobody cares about union funding the DNC other than Fox News and the GOP. Everyone cares how much corporate America donates to the GOP. It is in every newspaper and news story. People bashed Bush for being a corporate slave but nobody in the media sans Fox cares about Obama's unions connection. It's a double standard. If corporate America sucks us dry everyone throws a fit. If unions suck us dry nobody cares. Nobody cares that some of these people get paid ridiculous pensions. Everyone cares how much a CEO makes. Nobody cares that union run GM just paid out bonuses while still owing the tax payers money. Everyone cares that Wall Street was getting bonuses while still owing tax payers money.

We live in such weird times.

 

[The Squirrel]

Americans don't really do trains. Unless it's a subway/intercity to work type of train. So making those faster might work, but a cross country, high speed train is a little ridiculous.

 

[dnno1]

I find it hilarious that dnno thinks high speed rail in Wisconsin is going to be a successful venture.

Well, it won't now since the governor scrapped the project. Just for the record, since at least 1999, the state of Wisconsin has been planning for a new network of rail lines as a part of the America 2050 infrastructure initiative. Turning down the $800 million in funding from the government just delayed that plan and probably lost 10,000 new jobs. That's not funny.

 

[chaseter]

Uh huh. Because it a) wouldn't cost Wisconsinites 1 cent more to build tracks and stations and b) would be used often enough to generate revenue because so many people live in Wisconsin that they would need high speed rail daily and so many people are already traveling to Wisconsin daily. So yes, it's funny.

Amtrak can't even make a profit but this can?

 

[StorminNorman]

Florida is not moving forward with high speed rails.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/politi...ck-scott-is-done-with-high-speed-rail/1153594

California is...but then again they will do anything short of throwing money into a pit and burning it.

I heard about this a few weeks ago, this is good. The Federal Government was going to pay enough to get started and the State government was going to have to cover billions of dollars to finish.

Highspeed rail is a win-win. Jobs. Infrastructure. Lower emissions. More transportation to and from work.


What's the problem? Is it just that you don't want to give credit to those damn lefties for having a good idea?

I'm all for high speed rail.

As long as the government doesn't build it.

 

[chaseter]

The states would have had to pick up the rest. California's high speed rail authority estimates the cost to build 800 miles of track to be at 64 billion dollars. That is 80 million bucks a mile. That is ridiculous.

 

[Paradoxium]

Have you guys paid attention to the almighty Chinese high speed rails Obama was praising about. Lots of fail.

 

[Kelly]

Americans don't really do trains. Unless it's a subway/intercity to work type of train. So making those faster might work, but a cross country, high speed train is a little ridiculous.

Travel by train is awesome....if people would do it once, they would never travel any other way.

 

[dnno1]

Uh huh. Because it a) wouldn't cost Wisconsinites 1 cent more to build tracks and stations and b) would be used often enough to generate revenue because so many people live in Wisconsin that they would need high speed rail daily and so many people are already traveling to Wisconsin daily. So yes, it's funny.

Amtrak can't even make a profit but this can?

That's a trade you have to make between the maintenance costs versus the revenue gained by the increase in jobs required to support the system. Assuming a median railroad worker's salary is about $40K, at +10,000 jobs and a 6.5% income tax rate, that would give the state an added $26 million per year in tax revenue alone (that is not including sales taxes). If you look at the second page of this link you will see a table that lists the track maintenance cost factor for a sample case rail line from Watertown to Madison, WI and Burlington to Ft. Wayne, IN. The maintenance costs for a high speed rail line is about $80.30 per track mile for a 30 or more million gross tons of traffic annually. If the State of Wisconsin chose to build a high speed rail line from Madison to St. Paul, MN (about a 263 mile run), it would cost them a little more than $21 million per year in maintenance costs. In other words, they make about $5 million on the increased tax base alone and we still haven't addressed sales taxes. I would have to conclude that it was not a wise decision for the Governor to turn down the offer of $800 million to develop a high speed rail system because it would have brought in more revenue for the state.

 

[chaseter]

$800 million wouldn't lay 1 mile of high speed rail track if you go by what California has estimated the cost of building 800 miles of high speed rails to be $64 billion. That is right, $64 BILLION. That $800 million had to go to development of high speed rails or else they would have to pay back every penny. Who was going to pay for the rest after they built one mile?

On the subject of teachers in Wisconsin...HOLY CRAP

 

[dnno1]

$800 million wouldn't lay 1 mile of high speed rail track if you go by what California has estimated the cost of building 800 miles of high speed rails to be $64 billion. That is right, $64 BILLION. That $800 million had to go to development of high speed rails or else they would have to pay back every penny. Who was going to pay for the rest after they built one mile?

On the subject of teachers in Wisconsin...HOLY CRAP

But the Federal government will not be the only source of the funding. It will also come from state, local and private funds as well. Regardless, you will get your money back after a certain period of time when when you garner a certain number of riders. The state will get it's money back as a result of the increase in revenue from added jobs and sales taxes. California is talking about more than 1000 miles of track being laid since they want corridors from San Francisco to Los Angeles and Los Angeles to San Diego. They will have a much larger scope than most of the other states.

As far as Teachers go, the Federal poverty line is $22,000 for a family of 4. Is the guy in the video trying to say that the average salary of a Milwaukee resident is just a few thousand dollars above the federal poverty line for a family of four? I don't believe that.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Have you guys paid attention to the almighty Chinese high speed rails Obama was praising about. Lots of fail.

I rode on the Chinese high speed rail and it was freaking awesome. I'd really like to see that in the United States.

 

[chaseter]

How can it come from state funds when they have no money???

You just aren't comprehending this...Wisconsin is wide open spaces. They have 5.6 million people in a big state. Milwauke, Wisconsin's biggest city, has only 605 thousand people. China's high speed rail, which has piled up debt, has a station in Beijing where 22 million people live. And it has still racked up debt.

I mean really? Are you really going to defend Wisconsin needing high speed trains and that it would bring them a profit?????????????????????

 

[Paradoxium]

I rode on the Chinese high speed rail and it was freaking awesome. I'd really like to see that in the United States.

The head of the high speed rail - Liu Zhijun - was fired recently. Been using cheap chemical hardeners and the rail has poor construction quality, looks like they aren't that safe. One way ticket to a freak accident sooner or later.

 

[Paradoxium]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/18/world/asia/18rail.html?_r=1&hp

A person with ties to the ministry said that the concrete bases for the system’s tracks were so cheaply made, with inadequate use of chemical hardening agents, that trains would be unable to maintain their current speeds of about 217 miles per hour for more than a few years. In as little as five years, lower speeds, possibly below about 186 miles per hour, could be required as the rails become less straight, the expert said.