Discussion: All Things Union

[Sloth7d]

Arresting is a little far, but they do need to be forced back to do the jobs they were elected for.

What Squirrel said.

From what I can see, what they are doing serves the same interests as their constituents, so they are doing their job as far as their voters are concerned.

 

[DACrowe]

I was under the impression that most of their constituents (by a small margin of around 5 percent) would prefer not to strip collective bargaining from employees if they agree to the cuts? Bu I see, if Democrats in the US Congress pass something that is relatively unpopular (healthcare reform after a year of partisan bickering in March 2010) it is a form of tyranny. If state REpublicans do it, it's serving their constituents or "elections have consequences" (I saw one Wisconsin Republican say that on CNN). I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you Sloth7d, just noticing how both sides twist that for their answer on supporting/opposing every issue.

 

[hippie_hunter]

You didn't see Republicans flee from Congress when it became inevitable that Obamacare would pass. When Obama and the Progressive Democrats passed things like cap and trade, the stimulus, etc., Republicans stayed in Washington and opposed the bills the way legislators should do.

There's a difference between bickering while trying to prevent legislation you're opposed to and flat out running away like an ******* because you have a 100% chance of defeat.

 

[Franklin Richards]

No. The Republicans just filibuster to the point that they don't even HAVE to filibuster. Let's not even talk about gerrymandering.


So the Democratic tactic sux? Poor baby. Deal with it.

 

[Superman]

No. The Republicans just filibuster to the point that they don't even HAVE to filibuster. Let's not even talk about gerrymandering.


So the Democratic tactic sux? Poor baby. Deal with it.

 

[chaseter]

I wish all the Republicans had left Washington when Obamacare came to vote. Maybe then we wouldn't have this terrible monstrosity that they are now combing through and repealing line by line. Leaving town to subvert democracy? Filibustering a vote that will happen anyways? What a colossal waste of time but then again I expect nothing less from politicians.

 

[enterthemadness]

Utah thinks it's the wild west, wants to gold and silver coins.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/03/03/utah-considers-return-gold-silver-coins/

 

[Superman]

Jon Stewart Calls Out Fox News' Hypocrisy Comparing Teachers, Wall Street

Thursday night's "Daily Show" featured Jon Stewart doing what he does best: calling out hypocrisy in the media. After a segment on the intensified battle between Gov. Scott Walker and Wisconsin unions, Stewart took a look at how Fox News was reporting on the story, specifically compared to how they covered similar threats to the Bush tax cuts and bailed-out bank CEOs' salaries.

Stewart showed plenty of pundits saying that when it comes to taxing those who make $250,000 a year, you're taxing people who are "not rich" and even "close to poverty" if they have a family of four with kids in college. But when it comes to teachers in Wisconsin, the same pundits say they, as government employees, should expect to see cuts in their ample $50,000 a year salary plus benefits.

In other discussions on Fox News, cuts in teachers' salaries were compared to those of Wall Street executives. Megyn Kelly argued teachers don't deserve as much money because they "don't work as much." Stewart totally understood:

"See the difference? Regardless of the greed-based, almost slightly sociopathic job bankers did wrecking our economy, those people were there every single day, 12 months a year. Not that nine month bull*****!"
Stewart took it even further by showing another level of hypocrisy. Clips showed the same people on the network who agreed with the government limiting teachers' benefits also said that limiting the salaries of government bailed-out CEOs would be detrimental to the industry and "isn't a good way of attracting talent in the future."

"Absolutely, we have got to pay those bailed-out firm CEOs top dollar! Otherwise, those companies could wind up being run by a couple of jacka**es who f**k things up so royally, it torpedoes the entire global economy!"

We wouldn't want that to happen, now would we?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/04/jon-stewart-teachers-walls-street-fox_n_831243.html




Jon has a point. The Right Wingers had a fit and said that CEOs making $250.000 was not rich but now all of a sudden $75.000-$90.000 is rich when it's the middle class teachers.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, This whole thing is nothing but the Right Wingers trying to bust the unions. It has NOTHING to do with how much money the teachers are making.

These people should be ashamed, I know they're not, But they should be.

 

[Kelly]

I can certainly see where Stewart is coming from....the problem is as far as the teachers is the fact that those in the unions, DO FAR better in benefits than those "like myself" not in unions. NOT, in salary, I make more than they do....BUT, I also pay more on my retirement and insurance than they do...FAR more...and they will "when they retire" AND NOT WORKING, still cost the tax payers just as much for their retirement. Some retiring at the age of 51 and 52, will live possibly 40 more years making almost exactly what they made WHILE TEACHING and in many cases with the same exact benefits....that HAS TO STOP. These states CANNOT, THEY CANNOT....afford those types of deals. They just can't......the school districts CANNOT afford the demands of the unions, they just can't. So its really not JUST about them paying more into their insurance, retirement etc....

When I retire, my state will not continue to pay into my insurance, I WILL BE ABLE to have the same lower cost deal with the insurance company, and with AARP or other supplements, I'll do just fine. I also will not have the sweetheart union deal to live out the next 30 - 40 years of my life....I will have a good retiremnt, but I wouldn't if all I lived off of was JUST MY TEACHER'S RETIREMENT, I have other things I've paid into along the way as well....so IF I CAN DO IT, and millions of teachers around this country can do it....I'm not sure why they can't do it without collective bargainging. Hell even the 2 million federal workers don't have collective bargaining....

So as much as I understand his being upset with what seems to be the lack of respect for teachers, or understanding of what they actually do????? the bottom line of all of this is.....these union deals HAVE TO STOP, the states CANNOT afford them. Now, those that are under contract now.....not much we can do about that, but new teachers being hired.....we cannot continue this trend....it has to stop somewhere.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Yeah, because I'd rather give that money to the rich via tax cuts rather than help teachers in their retirement.


Great priorities.

 

[Kelly]

No, actually I was all for dropping the tax cuts...not necessarily at $250,000, but would have no problem at even $500.00 and up at this point. As I said above, there are millions of teachers out there that will retire just fine, and not put an unneeded burden on the tax payer and continue to get paid almost the same exact benefits (and even if they do increase what they say they will into what they pay....STILL won't be a drop in the bucket to what they get out of it in the end...)AND NOT WORKING...

The class warfare democratic talking points just don't cut it in this argument anymore....

 

[Franklin Richards]

Sure it does.


I've got questions about 401k's. And I'm serious and not being an ******* this time.


Your 401's are your retirement money invested in the stockmarket, correct? What happens if the stockmarket tanks?

 

[Superman]

Sure it does.


I've got questions about 401k's. And I'm serious and not being an ******* this time.


Your 401's are your retirement money invested in the stockmarket, correct? What happens if the stockmarket tanks?

Your retirement tanks with it. I went through that when my dad died and left me his 401k. I didn't get as much as he thought I would because the stockmarket was going down the drain at the time.

 

[DACrowe]

Jon Stewart Calls Out Fox News' Hypocrisy Comparing Teachers, Wall Street

Thursday night's "Daily Show" featured Jon Stewart doing what he does best: calling out hypocrisy in the media. After a segment on the intensified battle between Gov. Scott Walker and Wisconsin unions, Stewart took a look at how Fox News was reporting on the story, specifically compared to how they covered similar threats to the Bush tax cuts and bailed-out bank CEOs' salaries.

Stewart showed plenty of pundits saying that when it comes to taxing those who make $250,000 a year, you're taxing people who are "not rich" and even "close to poverty" if they have a family of four with kids in college. But when it comes to teachers in Wisconsin, the same pundits say they, as government employees, should expect to see cuts in their ample $50,000 a year salary plus benefits.

In other discussions on Fox News, cuts in teachers' salaries were compared to those of Wall Street executives. Megyn Kelly argued teachers don't deserve as much money because they "don't work as much." Stewart totally understood:

"See the difference? Regardless of the greed-based, almost slightly sociopathic job bankers did wrecking our economy, those people were there every single day, 12 months a year. Not that nine month bull*****!"
Stewart took it even further by showing another level of hypocrisy. Clips showed the same people on the network who agreed with the government limiting teachers' benefits also said that limiting the salaries of government bailed-out CEOs would be detrimental to the industry and "isn't a good way of attracting talent in the future."

"Absolutely, we have got to pay those bailed-out firm CEOs top dollar! Otherwise, those companies could wind up being run by a couple of jacka**es who f**k things up so royally, it torpedoes the entire global economy!"

We wouldn't want that to happen, now would we?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/04/jon-stewart-teachers-walls-street-fox_n_831243.html




Jon has a point. The Right Wingers had a fit and said that CEOs making $250.000 was not rich but now all of a sudden $75.000-$90.000 is rich when it's the middle class teachers.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, This whole thing is nothing but the Right Wingers trying to bust the unions. It has NOTHING to do with how much money the teachers are making.

These people should be ashamed, I know they're not, But they should be.

Heh, he articulated what I've been trying to say for days on this board.

 

[chaseter]

Sure it does.


I've got questions about 401k's. And I'm serious and not being an ******* this time.


Your 401's are your retirement money invested in the stockmarket, correct? What happens if the stockmarket tanks?

Why aren't we all afforded that guarantee?

 

[Kelly]

Sure it does.


I've got questions about 401k's. And I'm serious and not being an ******* this time.


Your 401's are your retirement money invested in the stockmarket, correct? What happens if the stockmarket tanks?

Historically the stock market is up much more than it is down....it depends on whether you are in it for the long haul or not. Yeah, I lost a hell of a lot of money after 9/11....I have regained that money and I'm doing very well. Those are chances that you take, and if all of your money is in your 401k or in my case my 403b, then you are an idiot....diversity is the key. I put very little into my 403b, I also have an ovation account, that some is in the stock market, fixed market, etc....AND, if I die it turns into a life insurance policy for my family rather than them getting hit hard paying taxes on my 403b's and IRA accounts...I also have money in gold.....so my money is put into many different places. That is the key. Hell, those teacher's retirement accounts are tied up in the stock market, so it won't be any different for them. States that had a lot of their money certain stocks a few years ago that tanked, screwed their employees.

 

[hippie_hunter]

No. The Republicans just filibuster to the point that they don't even HAVE to filibuster. Let's not even talk about gerrymandering.


So the Democratic tactic sux? Poor baby. Deal with it.

$20 says that if the Republicans were doing this, you'd be *****ing about it how they're subverting democracy, not doing their jobs, etc.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Yeah but the Republicans are mostly evil. They aren't on my side and I'm not on theirs.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Yeah but the Republicans are mostly evil. They aren't on my side and I'm not on theirs.

At least you're honest about it, so I guess I can't complain

 

[chaseter]

Seeing as how Obama bailed out the big wigs and haven't sent a single one of them to jail, even hiring them to his cabinet...I don't think he is on any of our side. Then again Frank and Dodd had a hand in some of this as well.

 

[StorminNorman]

Utah thinks it's the wild west, wants to gold and silver coins.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/03/03/utah-considers-return-gold-silver-coins/

Yeah, because I'd rather give that money to the rich via tax cuts rather than help teachers in their retirement.


Great priorities.

You really think you are giving money to rich people when you don't raise their taxes? Really? You are going with that?

 

[Franklin Richards]

No. I think I'm giving rich people money when I give them tax cuts. I didn't say raise their taxes. I said tax cuts.

 

[chaseter]

That is the problem with the left. They think tax cuts for the rich = taking away from what should be theirs. The rich left, who want their taxes to increase, see Michael Moore, I would bet takes every tax deduction he is allowed.

 

[dnno1]

Sure it does.


I've got questions about 401k's. And I'm serious and not being an ******* this time.


Your 401's are your retirement money invested in the stockmarket, correct? What happens if the stockmarket tanks?

Historically the stock market is up much more than it is down....it depends on whether you are in it for the long haul or not. Yeah, I lost a hell of a lot of money after 9/11....I have regained that money and I'm doing very well. Those are chances that you take, and if all of your money is in your 401k or in my case my 403b, then you are an idiot....diversity is the key. I put very little into my 403b, I also have an ovation account, that some is in the stock market, fixed market, etc....AND, if I die it turns into a life insurance policy for my family rather than them getting hit hard paying taxes on my 403b's and IRA accounts...I also have money in gold.....so my money is put into many different places. That is the key. Hell, those teacher's retirement accounts are tied up in the stock market, so it won't be any different for them. States that had a lot of their money certain stocks a few years ago that tanked, screwed their employees.

It in some cases can dictate when you retire. 401K'a are good to have, but I would not solely rely on that as a source of retirement income. It is a good way to grow an investment, but there are those periods (like about every 10 to 20 year) where it could lose half it's value (on paper at least). It would be up to the individual (or a representative) to carefully manage the account/funds to ensure that the investment is safe. Not everyone can do that nor wants to. The safest bet is to have a guaranteed investment like a pension or Social Security as companions with a 401K plan to round out your retirement portfolio.

 

[Kelly]

It in some cases can dictate when you retire. 401K'a are good to have, but I would not solely rely on that as a source of retirement income. It is a good way to grow an investment, but there are those periods (like about every 10 to 20 year) where it could lose half it's value (on paper at least). It would be up to the individual (or a representative) to carefully manage the account/funds to ensure that the investment is safe. Not everyone can do that nor wants to. The safest bet is to have a guaranteed investment like a pension or Social Security as companions with a 401K plan to round out your retirement portfolio.

I agree, the thing is....as a teacher, you aren't going to get Social Security....that may change before I retire for those teachers like myself who actually have enough units to get full Social Security, but as it stands right now.....that is not the case. I will get medicare, but that is it. SOOOOOO, whatever I do for my retirement, is up to me....