Discussion: Education

Raising Healthy Boys Means Letting Them Run A Little Wild

Written by Julie Gillis for The Good Men Project

My boys were outside on an unseasonably warm January day. Both had on their Spartan warrior outfits and both were wielding shields and swords (mostly made from stray branches or old broom handles). I watched them as they battled it out, swinging at each other, rolling occasionally in the dirt, yelling old timey epithets at each other. Some wrestling began and the battle waged on. Suddenly, I heard an “Ow! That's not cool!” and a bit of real pain noise overtook the play. I poked my head outside and the older one apologized to the younger one.

“You all OK?” I asked.

“Yeah,” the little one said.

“OK, just use your ‘for real no’ word when it gets too much.” And then I went back in to read.

I’ve been watching my kids play like this for a long time, both on their own and with other friends. When we have new friends over I often have everyone agree on some basic rough play ground rules, like the “for real no” phrase. I mean, if a Spartan warrior calls out "peanut butter!" really loudly, you can be sure they want the game to stop. Sometimes there are real fights that have broken out, but mostly things stop just before the danger zone, and even when it does get too rough, there are apologies and ways of making up for it.

More and more though, I’ve heard that parents don’t want their kids playing that roughly. They don't want them playing with fake guns (certainly a hot-button issue over the past few years with the gun deaths in our country) and swords. They want them to avoid things like climbing, leaping, biking, skateboarding, and so forth. Violence, injury, and the prevention of them, are a big deal in current America.

But might keeping our kids from rough and seemingly violent kinds of play be hurting them more than helping? Dr. Stuart Brown, the director of the National Institute of Play, thinks so. I recently came across an amazing podcast on On Being featuring his work. The podcast is here should you want to reference it, it’s fascinating.

According to its website, The National Institute for Play is a "non-profit public benefit corporation committed to bringing the unrealized knowledge, practices and benefits of play into public life."

I had no idea such a place existed and was so excited to learn of Dr. Brown. From his bio:

“Trained in general and internal medicine, psychiatry and clinical research, he first discovered the importance of play by discerning its absence in a carefully studied group of homicidal young males, beginning with the University of Texas Tower mass murderer Charles Whitman. Over the course of his clinical career, he interviewed thousands of people to capture their play profiles. His cataloging of their profiles demonstrated the active presence of play in the accomplishments of the very successful and also identified negative consequences that inevitably accumulate in a play-deprived life.”
We live in a culture that celebrates efficiency, practicality and hard work. We don’t like time wasters or things that don’t seem like they have a purpose, but what Dr. Brown has discovered is that our very ability to create and innovate, characteristics that also are expected out of our workforce, come out of free play, useless silliness, and time spent (not wasted) on open thought. Far from being useless, play creates empathy and compassion as well as trust, which allows people to live in ever-changing worlds, take risks, and ironically, know where the lines of real violence are.

Fake play fighting and play in general will help reduce real fighting later in life, it seems.

The podcast notes studies with baby rats who play in as rough-and-tumble fashion as any human mammal. If baby rats are stopped from engaging in that play, they grow up to be more violent. The “play” fighting actually teaches their brains how to know the lines between real hurting and not, thus building empathy. Mammals such as wolves, bear, the big cats, and primates all play. Dolphins and whales as well. It’s part of what helps build our bigger brains. Anyone who has had a cat or dog can attest to their playfulness and how it helps them bond with each other and with us.

Fantasy play in human children allows them to gain control of their very out-of-control little worlds, and also teaches them how to create competence. What appears violent and upsetting to adults (in an increasingly violent world) actually helps them build skills to keep them from behaving that way as adults.

It’s fascinating to me, not only because I have young boys, but because as a girl myself I was drawn to swords and bows and arrows, climbing trees (and everything I could get my hands on) and biking around the neighborhood. And I had the freedom to do those very things. Over the past 20 years there has been more and more control placed on children’s play and free time, leaving little to no time at recess to let off energy, and I know of loads of parents that won’t let their kids bike or skateboard, or walk home from school or learn to take the city bus.

Dr. Brown thinks we are doing our kids a disservice here and I agree. Free and interactive play allows children (male and female) to reduce stress, enhance creativity, learn faster, create deeper connections with peers, and when it comes to boys, what can I say? Limiting their fighting or physical play based on fear or cultural tropes about encouraging violence (that are now proving to be false), won’t help them learn how to navigate real conflicts later in life.

Ironic huh?

Fighting and rough-and-tumble play are good for boys. In fact, it will, if those studies are to be believed, make them more empathetic, more trusting, and more able to understand physical boundaries if we let them learn experientially. And playfully as they are naturally inclined to do.

With a “for real no” phrase and parents and neighbors willing to step in if things go too far afield, of course.

Adults need play as well, and that’s something I’ll address in future articles.

For me, I’m going to relish my own memories of a free and risky childhood and enjoy watching my boys learn all about being both human and good men in the most perfect way possible. By playing.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...?comm_crv&utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false
 

I'm surprised that HuffPo would print something like that. Years ago, the professor in a Psychology course I took talked about this same general topic. He stressed that it was important for fathers to wrestle/do a little rough-and-tumble with their kids, especially with the boys. He said it teaches them empathy for others and also restraint in being physical with others. Interesting . . . which I guess is why I remembered it.

I remember as a little kid in the evenings, we would be in the living room as a family. Dad would get walk into the middle of the room, get down on his knees, and say, "Alright boys, let's play rough!" That was the cue for my brother and I to . . . well . . . charge and attack him. It was a lot of fun. And yes, we had rules that kept it fun and minimized the chance that anyone would get hurt.

Boys need to be boys: playing sports, "war," wrestling, etc. If I have sons, I certainly won't discourage them from doing any of the above, and they will be taught the importance of rules in doing any of that. I certainly won't have any problem with them shooting each other with "fake" guns, because they will be taught the difference between a fake gun and a real gun--between horseplay and true violence. My parents taught me the difference, after all.
 
Not sure where this one goes but I will put it here.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/08/24/trump-university-fraud-ny/2696367/

N.Y. AG sues Trump, 'Trump University,' claims fraud

ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) — New York's attorney general sued Donald Trump for $40 million Saturday, saying the real estate mogul helped run a phony "Trump University" that promised to make students rich but instead steered them into expensive and mostly useless seminars, and even failed to deliver promised apprenticeships.

Trump shot back that the Democrat's lawsuit is false and politically motivated.

Attorney General Eric Schneiderman says many of the 5,000 students who paid up to $35,000 thought they would at least meet Trump but instead all they got was their picture taken in front of a life-size picture of "The Apprentice" TV star.

"Trump University engaged in deception at every stage of consumers' advancement through costly programs and caused real financial harm," Schneiderman said. "Trump University, with Donald Trump's knowledge and participation, relied on Trump's name recognition and celebrity status to take advantage of consumers who believed in the Trump brand."
 
I hate Donald Trump. The guy is a self-absorbed, narcissistic, vile piece of crap that needs to go away forever. I hope the lawsuit is real, I hope it bankrupts him, and I hope it knocks him out of the spotlight.
 
Like bankruptcy has stopped him before, I believe that would simply be his 6th bankruptcy.
 
I'm surprised that HuffPo would print something like that. Years ago, the professor in a Psychology course I took talked about this same general topic. He stressed that it was important for fathers to wrestle/do a little rough-and-tumble with their kids, especially with the boys. He said it teaches them empathy for others and also restraint in being physical with others. Interesting . . . which I guess is why I remembered it.

I remember as a little kid in the evenings, we would be in the living room as a family. Dad would get walk into the middle of the room, get down on his knees, and say, "Alright boys, let's play rough!" That was the cue for my brother and I to . . . well . . . charge and attack him. It was a lot of fun. And yes, we had rules that kept it fun and minimized the chance that anyone would get hurt.

Boys need to be boys: playing sports, "war," wrestling, etc. If I have sons, I certainly won't discourage them from doing any of the above, and they will be taught the importance of rules in doing any of that. I certainly won't have any problem with them shooting each other with "fake" guns, because they will be taught the difference between a fake gun and a real gun--between horseplay and true violence. My parents taught me the difference, after all.

It's sad that we actually have to have a news article to tell us these things. :/ But it's really no surprise considering we live in a society where "everyone is a winner" and gets a medal just for being IN a sports game or whatever.. :) We coddle too much nowadays...
 
To Fix School, Make it Consensual
Blake Boles
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/blake-boles/to-fix-school-make-it-con_b_6158284.html
Directly after college I took an Emergency Medical Technician course. Hungry to build practical, hands-on skills after 16 years of abstract academia, I hoped the first class would jump straight into the good stuff: how to stop massive arterial bleeding, stick a pen into someone's trachea to help them breathe again, or splint a femur fracture.

Instead, we talked about consent.

Emergency Medical Technicians, I learned, can make all sorts of mistakes. Show up at a car crash and just start moving people around, and you might aggravate a spine injury. Treat a child without her parent's permission, and you might get yourself in deep trouble.

The basic principle was: Don't help someone without asking first. Get consent first. Because when you think you're helping, you might actually be hurting.

After that lesson, I thought back to my entire K-12 schooling experience. Despite the number of kind-hearted and well-intentioned people who played a part in it, how many ever asked for my consent? How many asked me (and seriously engaged me in) the questions: Did I actually want to go to school? Did I actually think this assignment was a good idea? Was this class actually worth my time? And what else might I have done with my time instead of sitting bored?

School, I realized, is a terrible place to learn consent--which is a shame, considering that consent is the cornerstone of every healthy relationship and community I've ever encountered.

To me, consent means:
understanding what you're committing to
knowing what the alternatives are
saying "yes" while retaining the power to say "no"
To illustrate, let's say you're thinking about signing up for a cooking class. Consenting fully to this class means reading the course description carefully, finding reviews of the class, comparing it with other available classes, and understanding the refund policy.

Having done this research, you're ready to make an informed decision about taking the cooking class, while always reserving the power to walk out.

Now imagine applying this method to every educational situation in your life. That's the daily work of a self-directed learner.

A self-directed high school graduate doesn't simply enroll in the "best college" available to her. She tours campuses, interviews professors, chats with current students, and tracks down recent graduates. She considers multiple colleges. She considers not going to college at all. And if she enrolls, she forever remembers that she can change schools or leave college altogether, if necessary.

A self-directed teenage homeschooler doesn't assume that his parents' choices will automatically make him successful. As soon as possible, he begins taking control of his own education. He uses books, the Internet, and other people to research and inform his decisions. If his parents' curriculum no longer feels meaningful, he advocates for his own interests. If he wants to try school, he proposes it as an experiment. He sees himself as an active participant, not a passive pawn, in his own education.

A self-directed parent who wants her kid to take violin lessons doesn't just sign him up for lessons. She explains her reasoning to him: "I want you to appreciate music," for example. She suggests other activities that could provide the same benefits, such as guitar lessons, digital composing, or attending the symphony. She sets clear expectations for any classes or tutoring: "I want you to give your best effort to three lessons." She gives him the space to think, weigh his options, and respond. She doesn't force, cajole, or emotionally blackmail. She treats her child as the budding adult that he will soon become, and when he says "no," that means no. And when she gets antsy, she signs up for violin lessons herself and leads by example.

C.S. Lewis wrote, "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive." Education is no exception. To become a self-directed learner is to become, in the words of my friend Ethan Mitchell, a consensual learner.

Reject the tyranny of forced learning, no matter how desirable the end result.

"'Don't you make your children learn anything?'
Make? No. I don't make them learn anything. I inquire. I suggest. I offer incentives. But I do not make. I am not their central planner. That job is taken. My job isn't to decree what they will be good at or what they will do or how they will do it. I am not king in their lives. They are sovereign. Their minds belong to them. It is their property, after all.
My job is to approach them with humility and know that my ability to discern what they are to be or to do or to excel in is nothing compared to theirs. My job is to assist them in their discernment. To make experiences, work, play, resources, teachers, mentors, and collaborators available to them to help them as they construct themselves. To talk things through with them, but not talk it all to death. My job is to sit down, shut up, and serve when I can. I direct nothing. Less of me. More of them."
-- Ana Martin (The Libertarian Homeschooler)
 
The only way we are going to fix our travesty of an education system is to make it more centralized. If we have teachers teaching their own religious and political opinions or ANY opinions really then there is just no real organization and you have idiots teaching whatever they want. You have one teacher teaching the earth is 6000 years old, you have another that says it's millions of years old and then you have others that teach anything in between. The amount of differences in "facts" taught by teachers is so out of control. Form a group of INTELLIGENT, well educated people to create a nationwide curriculum which will be taught by ALL public schools and stop all the chaos. And that's what it is...when you don't have organization you have chaos.

We also need more money put into schools to bring them into the 21st century. Also, better food. Not that crap they are currently serving.

Until leaders start taking our education system SERIOUSLY and start putting the time, effort and MONEY into it it will continue to degrade and any hope for future generations will dwindle.
 
The only way we are going to fix our travesty of an education system is to make it more centralized. If we have teachers teaching their own religious and political opinions or ANY opinions really then there is just no real organization and you have idiots teaching whatever they want. You have one teacher teaching the earth is 6000 years old, you have another that says it's millions of years old and then you have others that teach anything in between. The amount of differences in "facts" taught by teachers is so out of control. Form a group of INTELLIGENT, well educated people to create a nationwide curriculum which will be taught by ALL public schools and stop all the chaos. And that's what it is...when you don't have organization you have chaos.

We also need more money put into schools to bring them into the 21st century. Also, better food. Not that crap they are currently serving.

Until leaders start taking our education system SERIOUSLY and start putting the time, effort and MONEY into it it will continue to degrade and any hope for future generations will dwindle.

Centralization, however, also has the problem of not allowing for different academic models. What about trade schools, or art schools, or montessori schools, or what have you? There is no educational model that is good for every student.
 
Centralization, however, also has the problem of not allowing for different academic models. What about trade schools, or art schools, or montessori schools, or what have you? There is no educational model that is good for every student.

This is more in regards to regular old public schools. Grade school through high school.

And there is still room for flexible teaching in a centralized system. The context is centralized but the way teachers can teach students can still be diverse.
 
This is more in regards to regular old public schools. Grade school through high school.

But I think that a major flaw with the public school system is that it usually only allows for one model. Most other academic models are only found in private schools or highly specialized public schools in wealthy districts. I thin if we're going to have a centralized education system, it should offer more than one model.

And there is still room for flexible teaching in a centralized system. The context is centralized but the way teachers can teach students can still be diverse.

Fair.
 
The Hill - Maher calls college a 'grift,' compares it to Scientology

Stay in school, kids. Don't listen to Tucker and Maher and other TV bloviaters.

not a highschool graduate = 9.1% unemployment (May 2021)
highschool graduate, no college = 6.8% unemployment (May 2021)
some college or associate degree = 5.9% unemployment (May 2021)
college graduate, bachelors degree = 3.2% unemployment (May 2021)

I recommend watching the segment. It was more about what the US colleges have become (meaning education is not the priority anymore, but hoarding money)) and how people who don't need to or shouldn't go to college are told to go to college.
 
I recommend watching the segment. It was more about what the US colleges have become (meaning education is not the priority anymore, but hoarding money)) and how people who don't need to or shouldn't go to college are told to go to college.

Yeah. I just watched it. His argument is a little more nuanced than education is a grift. Bill has a real hard on about younger people. I benefited twice from a community college. Once because I couldn't afford 4 years of the University and again, for some technical skills I wanted.
 
Yeah. I just watched it. His argument is a little more nuanced than education is a grift. Bill has a real hard on about younger people. I benefited twice from a community college. Once because I couldn't afford 4 years of the University and again, for some technical skills I wanted.

Yeah, it was more focused on colleges that look more like water amusement parks and have nonsense courses and charge you a fortune on tuition fees.
 
Yeah, it was more focused on colleges that look more like water amusement parks and have nonsense courses and charge you a fortune on tuition fees.

Bill Maher paints with unusually large strokes (too large IMO). Sure, there are places like he describes, but I believe the vast majority of students in "higher" education (I hope to get rid of that phrase someday) take their studies very seriously.

I screwed off somewhat in HS, but tested high enough to be admitted to the University of California. Problem was that I was from a lower middle class, single income family that couldn't afford to help. I got a half time job, went to school at a CC, saved money for a couple of years and then transferred to UC Santa Cruz. It all worked out in the end. I went to CC near Santa Cruz, took a bunch of electronic classes (had all the math I needed so it only took me 3 semesters) and got a job in electronic engineering (I designed prototype infrared detectors that turn on lights, etc), before moving to computer networking. Anyway, it all worked out and a big part of it was having the CC there and available.
 
Bill Maher paints with unusually large strokes (too large IMO). Sure, there are places like he describes, but I believe the vast majority of students in "higher" education (I hope to get rid of that phrase someday) take their studies very seriously.

Oh definitely in this case. He could have added that when choosing the college, kids need to put education as the priority, not water parks.
 
Oh definitely in this case. He could have added that when choosing the college, kids need to put education as the priority, not water parks.

We had better happy hours than water parks. :shrug:

Every Thursday from 4-6. Music, beer, and chips. On the patio in fall and spring. Indoors in the winter. It was a nice break and was a very social event. Our college (there are several colleges within the University) also organized rafting, skiing, wine tasting, and various other weekend activities (about once a month as the budget permitted). It made for some long lasting friendships and a real sense of community in the college.
 
Wall Street Journal - A Generation of American Men Give Up on College: ‘I Just Feel Lost’
The number of men enrolled at two- and four-year colleges has fallen behind women by record levels, in a widening education gap across the U.S.

Men are abandoning higher education in such numbers that they now trail female college students by record levels.

At the close of the 2020-21 academic year, women made up 59.5% of college students, an all-time high, and men 40.5%, according to enrollment data from the National Student Clearinghouse, a nonprofit research group. U.S. colleges and universities had 1.5 million fewer students compared with five years ago, and men accounted for 71% of the decline.
Enrollment rates for poor and working-class white men are lower than those of young Black, Latino and Asian men from the same economic backgrounds, according to an analysis of census data by the Pell Institute for the Journal.

 
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