Discussion: Global Warming and Other Environmental Issues

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This is Chicagoland, and this time of the season it's usually below freezing. Sure, everyone is enjoying it, busting out their bikes, skateboards and buttcrack jeans, but we all know what's going on here.

Aninconvenienttruth.jpg


It was really warm today, me and my friend made a skate day out of it, it was nice, Im hoping the weather continues at this temp for a bit.

I watched an inconvenient truth last night, great documentary, i fear for our future though if the way we are going continues.
 
The "ocean cooling" effect you speak of is driven by warming. As ice melts on a large scale (reglardless of it is land ice or sea ice) it sends a HUGE amount of freshwater into the otherwise salty ocean. Ocean currents are three dimensional - they flow on the surface but at certain known points on the globe, sink or rise in what is called "thermohaline circulation". The current is driven by temperature - cold water is more dense and sinks; and salinity - salty water is more dense and sinks.

When large amounts of cold, fresh water are injected into this system at high latitudes it disrupts the thermohaline circulation. The ocean currents are the "conveyor belts" that transport heat from the equator to the poles. If this converyor belt stops, the equator wamrs up and the poles cool off.

The long answer to your question is that the "ocean cooling" effect is caused by global warming. The other result of this shift in ocean seasurface temperatures is that the weather gets all messed up *cough*tornadoes in winter*cough*
I know all of that, but I'm asking about the effect of these orbital cycles in relation to the ocean-current mechanisms.
 
I know all of that, but I'm asking about the effect of these orbital cycles in relation to the ocean-current mechanisms.

The orbital cycles trigger naturally cyclic periods of warming which melt polar ice and impact the oceanic currents. This phenomenon is being accelerated or compressed in time because of human influence (or at least that's the theory)
 
The orbital cycles trigger periods of warming which melt polar ice and impact the oceanic currents.
It just seems to me that if variations in the orbit of the earth can be responsible for warming, couldn't they also be responsible for cooling as well? That is to say that if one action leads to one effect, then the opposite should lead to the opposite effect.

By the way, I'm drunk right now. I'm trying to make as much sense as I can. Forgive me. :o
 
I understand that they all aren't gone, but the ones that are gone, what happened? Did the world just heat up on its own? Actually, did the world just cool on its own to get to the Ice Age? And How many Ige Ages have there been? I know more than one. So, the world continually changes.

I was reading the Wiki on Ice Ages. Found this:
Five_Myr_Climate_Change.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age

This, if true, seems to show that we have been on a warming trend, since FOREVER![/quote]
You mean even before these???:wow:



Get outta here! :whatever: :hehe:
 
The "ocean cooling" effect you speak of is driven by warming. As ice melts on a large scale (reglardless of it is land ice or sea ice) it sends a HUGE amount of freshwater into the otherwise salty ocean. Ocean currents are three dimensional - they flow on the surface but at certain known points on the globe, sink or rise in what is called "thermohaline circulation". The current is driven by temperature - cold water is more dense and sinks; and salinity - salty water is more dense and sinks.

When large amounts of cold, fresh water are injected into this system at high latitudes it disrupts the thermohaline circulation. The ocean currents are the "conveyor belts" that transport heat from the equator to the poles. If this converyor belt stops, the equator wamrs up and the poles cool off.

The long answer to your question is that the "ocean cooling" effect is caused by global warming. The other result of this shift in ocean seasurface temperatures is that the weather gets all messed up *cough*tornadoes in winter*cough*

We've never had tornadoes in the winter, now???? Good Grief !! Some areas of the country have always had periodic issues like that! Especially down south!!
17no.gif
I use to live down there!
 
It just seems to me that if variations in the orbit of the earth can be responsible for warming, couldn't they also be responsible for cooling as well? That is to say that if one action leads to one effect, then the opposite should lead to the opposite effect.

By the way, I'm drunk right now. I'm trying to make as much sense as I can. Forgive me. :o

This explains it probably better than my words can...

Image:Milankovitch_Variations.png

Image link isn't working... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovitch_cycles

The black line on the bottom represents the net effect of the combination of the three cycles. There is a long warming trend and sharp cool off.

Oceanic heat distribution (or lack thereof if circulation shuts down) does not exactly balance the warming that created it - especially since the cooling effect is only felt in certain regions of the world (England and Scandinavia for one. Er.... two)
 
The Polar Bear Pic They Won't Show You

polar_crosbie.jpg
h/t Instapundit - Ann Althouse calls attention to an image of Polar Bears making the rounds, again - it was allegedly taken by Dan Crosbie in 2004 and is currently number one on Yahoo's photo list. The image I have up at right also involves Dan Crosbie from the same period in 2004 during a scientific trip during which they carried rifles to run off polar bears while planting equipment in the ice - ice that was much thicker than they expected it to be. (pertinent excerpted text at bottom)
But what's this? Scroll down and you'll see the same picture was first published with a credit to another person on the trip and the caption made it clear what was really going on.
Mother polar bear and cub on interesting ice sculpture carved by waves. Amanda Byrd.
Wow! I didn't know Global Warming caused .... waves, too! Update: Apparently Amanda is also something of a poet.
original_pic.jpg
The image has been used in a variety of environmental campaigns over the years, sans the original caption, of course. Here it was used to solicit public comments to Save da' Bears! They've now been, or soon will be listed as an endangered species. It seems the picture makes some people cry. Update2: Here it is in an Ezine. But the Global Warming folks know that, based on this report. Read the bragging over the media manipulation:
One of the credos of journalism is to seek balance in a story, to cover "both sides." But reporters' dogged tendency to do so on the issue of a human role in global warming has had a detrimental impact on the public's understanding of the subject, say many scientists who criticize media coverage of climate change.
In just the last year White said he has noticed a significant shift in media coverage of the subject.
"The reporting is better because I don't see the 'other side' anymore."
And the polar bears make good ammunition - when the caption is inaccurate, of course:
White isn't averse to using elements that people can grasp and relate to, like vanishing sea ice and what that means for polar bear habitat and survival.
"Scientists miss that, " White said. "Many of my colleagues complain that it's all about polar bears -- it is all about polar bears, it's all about seals. You use the ammunition you have."
And they basically admit to exploiting Hurricane Katrina, too.
White also said Hurricane Katrina has been a major influence on the press's new focus. While it's impossible to say conclusively that global warming is to blame for Katrina's strength, White said, the storm was nonetheless a huge catalyst for a growing press interest in warming and rising seas and their effects.
"I've come to appreciate the power of these seminal events," White said. "These are galvanizing events that focus people's attention on the problems."
The text below is from first link above to a trip journal in which the picture originally appeared. Only the ice was so thick they almost gave up and the ammunition they were concerned with was reserved for polar bears, not saving them. The infamous polar bear pic has a home here with three others at Environment Canada.
The ice ends up being almost too good. It is a hard old floe, and takes us a long time to drill with the 2" diameter hand auger. After drilling 4 m, we think that we are almost to the end, but don't have enough extensions.
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Not willing to give up on this floe, another site is selected, and there we penetrate the ice cover after only about 3.75 m. So the decision is made to go ahead with the deployment there. However, since it is late in the evening by the time we return, the deployment begins on the following day.
Up the next morning at 5:30, on the helicopter deck by 6 AM, and on the ice by 6:15 to deploy the ITP and IMB buoys. Although it was pretty foggy in the morning and visibility was limited, 8 of us were transferred to the ice in three flights (plus gear) for the operations. There were also two slingloads of cargo.
Cutting the 11" diameter hole in the ice was the hardest part of the ITP deployment. Cutting through the 4 m of old hard ice progressed reasonably well until we got past the halfway point. Then water turned the ice shavings into slush, and the auger flutes couldn't remove the material.
banghead.gif
So the going got very difficult. We tried using four people (instead of the normal two) on the auger, but that still didn't produce results. It helped considerably to set up the tripod and hang the auger from a chainfall, so that we could drill at a controlled rate. When the hole was cut, the anchor weight and wire were smoothly deployed, then the ITP profiler was attached to the wire.
 
Do people who feel bad for the bears in that picture realize that Polar Bears can swim?
 
I am no expert in Global Warming, but from what I've gathered a shift to a globally warmer climate is occuring and the occurance is agreed upon by virtually the entire scientific community. I can agree with that as today I was working in 70 degree weather when it should be in the single digits and teens.

So Global Warming appears to be real. Shouldn't we be asking: Global Warming: Are we causing it or not?
 
I am no expert in Global Warming, but from what I've gathered a shift to a globally warmer climate is occuring and the occurance is agreed upon by virtually the entire scientific community. I can agree with that as today I was working in 70 degree weather when it should be in the single digits and teens.

So Global Warming appears to be real. Shouldn't we be asking: Global Warming: Are we causing it or not?

No, it's obvious we should be fixating on polar bear pictures.
because, you know, that's the evidence that scientists presented...polar bear pictures.

:dry:

and in reality, the impact of man on climate change is a given, the extent of it is the only thing in debate.
when you can affect a millennial process by something like 25% you have to start asking some hard questions.
 
Do people who feel bad for the bears in that picture realize that Polar Bears can swim?
Perhaps not in that specific picture (which, of course, is meant to be dramatic). Still, the loss of habitat overall is quite alarming, and it's putting them at risk.
 
Anyone notice how this thing quitely went from "Global Warming" to "Climate Change"?? They're already hedging their bets.:woot:
 
If anything significant is happening there is not enough evidence beyond a few shotty ice pieces which have even presented the existence of such an event. Has anyone checked if this is possibly a shift in Earth's gravitational orbit, perhaps increased sun activity, or is it normal and we haven't been around long enough to realize it.
 
The factuality of climate change is still being disputed?
Really?

It's the middle of winter in Quebec and it was pouring rain yesterday, thats a purely personal example that has no real bearings on the issue at large, but there is more then enough evidence available supporting it.

Ever since we've had the stupid idea put in our heads that we should "subdue" our planet things have gone downhill.
A little sense would make some realize how horrible we've been to it, and it should be no surprise that things are turning to **** at this point, and the fact that people still argue we should still be entitled to threat the Earth as a bottomless dump are just plain daft.
 
Anyone notice how this thing quitely went from "Global Warming" to "Climate Change"?? They're already hedging their bets.:woot:

anyone notice how first Celldog didn't know that Gore has been an environmentalist since the 70's, then how he couldn't read a graph and then how he tried to discredit science with pictures of polar bears?
:woot:
 
anyone notice how first Celldog didn't know that Gore has been an environmentalist since the 70's, then how he couldn't read a graph and then how he tried to discredit science with pictures of polar bears?
:woot:


Gore wanted to be President and failed. So he fell back on his old hobby and forced it down our throats. Some (like you) believe the hype. "The debate is over" , said Reverend Gore!!! "What debate?", says I!!

He won't debate! He keeps running away!

This thing is still shaky. Gore knows it! His film was found to have many errors in it!! Major errors! But you nuts don't care. You don't even stop to think what else could be wrong.

There are many scientists swearing off this crap. They're not all on the oil payroll either. But some of those Gore-danian scientists are getting millions in grant money for climbing on board the "climate change" express.....
 
Even if Global warming wasn't currently happening, wouldn't it be smart to investigate it? All these people, all these cars, all the CO2, the depletion of trees and plants that convert the CO2 into O2, all the environmental contamination, etc...is doing something to this planet.
 
Even if Global warming wasn't currently happening,


:woot: It's not!

wouldn't it be smart to investigate it? All these people, all these cars, all the CO2, the depletion of trees and plants that convert the CO2 into O2, all the environmental contamination, etc...is doing something to this planet.


Scientists have already confirmed periods of natural cooling and warming.....That's nature!! It's okay.....Oh....and guess what?? Those trees and plants live on CO2.
 
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