Discussion: Global Warming and Other Environmental Issues

[Marx]

"When did survival on planet Earth get to be a liberal cause?"

Love him or hate him, Bill Maher comes up with a very good point here.

Bill Maher brings up some great points every now and then.

 

[Carcharodon]

"When did survival on planet Earth get to be a liberal cause?"

Love him or hate him, Bill Maher comes up with a very good point here.

I've been wondering the same thing for a LONG time. It's sad, really.

 

[Hobgoblin]

The thing is, conservation is a conservative ideal. Its cheaper to recycle than to mine more ore out of the ground. People used outdoor clothes hangers to dry clothes 50 years ago. If they want to go back to the good old days, then they would be going along with the environmentalists.

 

[Franklin Richards]

...and as far as religion is concerned, most of them tell you to be a good steward.



It's mind boggling. Is it just Al Gore hate? Or is that they believe Jesus is coming back next month and they don't have to clean up?



:gl: :gl: :gl:

 

[Carcharodon]

Or is that they believe Jesus is coming back next month and they don't have to clean up?

There's so much absurd truth in this question...

 

[Hobgoblin]

A lot of it is Al Gore hate. Just ask this guy:


Look, I'm not a scientist but even I took enough science classes to know that correlation doesnt mean causation. So just because rising global temps match up to sun spot activity deosnt mean that global warming is caused by increases in sun spot numbers.

 

[Carcharodon]

A lot of it is Al Gore hate. Just ask this guy:


Look, I'm not a scientist but even I took enough science classes to know that correlation doesnt mean causation. So just because rising global temps match up to sun spot activity deosnt mean that global warming is caused by increases in sun spot numbers.

Sun spot cycles operate on the scale of a decade or so. This trend has spanned over one hundred years...through MANY sun spot cycles.

Still, that's beside your main point, and you're right. However, if you look at the other evidence:

1) That carbon dioxide IS a greenhouse gas.
2) The greenhouse effect is very, very real (this isn't even under debate).
3) Different greenhouse gasses have different magnitudes of effect with respect to trapping IR radiation...

...it begins to become more plausible.

What's more, it's funny that you assume that the hundreds (scratch that: thousands) of scientists working on this phenomenon somehow forgot that very basic principle, as though the scientific method as a philosophy is NOT the basis for their entire careers and body of work.

It's not just you, though. It's an attitude I've come across many, MANY times before.

FINALLY, regardless of whether or not our carbon emissions are responsible for climate change, there is NO denying that the release of excess carbon dioxide harms the environment, and in potentially BIG ways that people tend to ignore. I won't lecture about it again, because you've all heard it before. SuBe knows.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Wait, did I say that scientists forgot the scientific method? I thought I was only talking about the guy in the video I posted.

Are you baked again?

 

[EdRyder]

Bill Maher brings up some great points every now and then.

Yeah you gotta love Bill.He was on point till he brought up mirrors in connection to the Hindu Kush mountains of Afghanistan .

Psst, Bill,.. its not a mirror. Greenland= mirror , Antarctica = mirror, Mountains in Afghanistan & China= not a mirror.

Love your show tho Dude.

 

[Carcharodon]

Wait, did I say that scientists forgot the scientific method? I thought I was only talking about the guy in the video I posted.

Are you baked again?

I COMPLETELY misread what you wrote, actually. My mistake. No, I'm not baked...for the moment.

 

[Marx]

POLL: GLOBAL WARMING CAN BE STOPPED
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/05/05/cnn-poll-global-warming-can-be-stopped/

A new national poll indicates that a majority of Americans think that global warming is real, and that the federal government can do something to slow or stop the phenomenon.

Fifty-four percent of those questioned in a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey released Tuesday say that global warming is occurring and that Washington can take steps to slow the rate of global warming, or eventually stop it altogether. Twenty-seven percent agree that global warming is real, but think the federal government is powerless to stop it or slow it down, and 17 percent say that global warming is not occurring.

"Two-thirds of Democrats think that the government can do something about global warming, but only a third of Republicans feel that way," says
CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. "The same number of Republicans don't believe that global warming is happening at all. Only one in 20 Democrats think global warming is a myth."

The poll also suggests that a slight majority oppose a proposal called "cap and trade," which would allow the federal government to limit the emissions from industrial facilities such as power plants and factories that some people believe cause global warming. Companies that exceed the limit could avoid fines or higher taxes by paying money to other companies that produced fewer emissions than allowed. Forty-four percent support "cap and trade," which is backed by the Obama administration.

The survey's release comes on the same day that more than 30 congressional Democrats met with President Obama at the White House to discuss the issue. The president is trying to prevent progress on climate change, one of his signature issues, from being derailed by divisions within his own party over "cap and trade."

"Since more than four in ten Americans believe that the government can do nothing about global warming, a cap-and-trade proposal — or any other government action that is meant to reduce global warming — may be a hard sell," Holland says.

The CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll was conducted April 23-26, with 2,019 adult Americans questioned by telephone. The survey's sampling error is plus or minus 3 percentage points.

 

[Carcharodon]

POLL: GLOBAL WARMING CAN BE STOPPED
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/05/05/cnn-poll-global-warming-can-be-stopped/

Not sure how I feel about that. What does the average person really know about global warming? Hell, I don't know enough to say whether or not it can be stopped.

 

[Hobgoblin]

From my moderately informed opinion, it seems that we could at best only slow down the warming. Some of it is natural warming, imo, but we could never get everybody to go along with population control and recycling. Those two combination's = a warm up.

 

[Addendum]

Not sure how I feel about that. What does the average person really know about global warming? Hell, I don't know enough to say whether or not it can be stopped.

Same here. But I'll take the word of scientists over government's any day

 

[BatMatt]

it's real, and who knows how much we can slow it down, but we can certainly do a lot to help the cause.

 

[StorminNorman]

In five years people are going to be wishing for Global Warming.

 

[BatMatt]

In five years people are going to be wishing for Global Warming.

I go to school in upstate New York bordering Lake Ontario (Lake Effect snow all the time) so every winter most of us wish for global warming

 

[Hobgoblin]

In five years people are going to be wishing for Global Warming.

What makes you say that?

 

[VampElvis]

I'd guess because
1. There's seems to be a growing movement accepting the idea we're entering a cooling phase.
2. The economy may be so much worse people really won't give a flip about long term climate change (which we CANNOT model with any precision insomuch as saying what is and is not normal and natural).
3. Two of the above answers are correct.

 

[Carcharodon]

2. The economy may be so much worse people really won't give a flip about long term climate change (which we CANNOT model with any precision insomuch as saying what is and is not normal and natural).

Which is ******ed given that the two are integrally linked.

 

[VampElvis]

Assuming you're referencing the relationship between the economy and the climate, I think you overstate the link. Short of localized climactic catastrophe the two really don't follow one another. Well, until you have some invasive government policies forcing the economy into path of lesser return in deference to climate alarmism.

 

[StorminNorman]

What makes you say that?

As the appeal of Global Warming declines, people will start telling people to stop driving Hummers to prevent Global Cooling which will somehow also be linked to human involvement. Of course the fact that the sun is simply not as active as it has been in the past wouldn't change the fact hypocritical people like Al Gore will try to use Climate Cooling for personal gain.

 

[Carcharodon]

Assuming you're referencing the relationship between the economy and the climate, I think you overstate the link. Short of localized climactic catastrophe the two really don't follow one another. Well, until you have some invasive government policies forcing the economy into path of lesser return in deference to climate alarmism.

You have no idea just how wrong you are. Are you familiar with the concept of ecological goods and services? The idea that natural and biological processes are responsible for goods and services totaling untold sums of worth/value? I'm serious, if you were to put a monetary value on these goods and services you'd be staggered.

Our economy can't separate itself from the ecological state of our planet. Just remember that. Ecological instability translates into economic instability.

 

[Carcharodon]

As the appeal of Global Warming declines, people will start telling people to stop driving Hummers to prevent Global Cooling which will somehow also be linked to human involvement.

Nobody can deny that anthropogenic carbon emissions are having adverse effects on the planet and the organisms within it. Sorry. Excess atmospheric carbon is still a real problem.

 

[StorminNorman]

Nobody can deny that anthropogenic carbon emissions are having adverse effects on the planet and the organisms within it. Sorry. Excess atmospheric carbon is still a real problem.

And I have no problem researching alternative, carbon friendly forms of energy. But the idea of "Carbon Credits" is ridiculous. The idea of taxing carbon emitting energies in a poor economic climate is ridiculous. The idea that America shouldn't try to increase domestic drilling of oil because oil is bad is ridiculous.

I have no problem with common sense environmentalism. I recycle as much as possible, I pick up garbage, I use electricity wisely, I support businesses whose environmental policies I agree with - I don't think it's smart for the government to increase its presence in America lives over the fear of Global Warming though.