Discussion: Global Warming and Other Environmental Issues

[chamber-music]

In the UK pretty much everyone has excepted Global Warming/Climate change is real. I think public opinion has really swung over this decade although that still doesn't mean everyone is willing to do something about it.

Prince Charles has been going on about Climate Change since the 70s when everyone thought he was crazy. When you see the effects of climate change on numerous news reports and documentaries filmed around the world shown here in Britain on TV where the change is actually effecting peoples lives right now not in 50 years time or whatever its kind of hard to say its not happening.

you can debate what if anything is causing the change but you can't deny that a change is happening and that their are things we need to do to plan or create a way of dealing with it and the effects it causes.

 

[BatMatt]

Yeah. I am a college kid so I am a penny pincher and living like that for 4 years has made me extremely tolerant to warm weather. I can even tolerate it when my apartment gets around 81-82. When I go home, my parents keep their house at like 72-74 degrees and I freeze and I have to wear socks. To me, that is pointless to keep a house that cold to where you have to use blankets at night when you sleep. Plus, their electricity bill is ridiculous.

Ha ok, good for you then. If you were keeping it 79 degrees in the winter (and living in a northern climate) then I would have to say that would not be too environmentally/cost conscious

 

[chaseter]

No, in the summer I keep it at 79ish and in the winter I hardly ever turn on the heater. As I said, I am a college kid so I am a penny pincher = good for the environment

 

[Carcharodon]

I don't think any of us are qualified to debate whether anthropogenic climate change is a reality to be honest, but I will say (as I've said before) that if you believe our carbon emissions are having no effect on the environment (even ignoring climate), then you need to be slapped. Hard.

Thankfully there aren't many people anymore who hold that terribly ignorant view.

 

[VampElvis]

Oh I don't think there's any question the increased output of CO2 influences the environment in some manner. Just as there's no question our herbicides, pesticides, and medicinals are impacting it as well (trivia: name one man-made chemical has been found in virtually all water supplies in the US? A: birth control, albeit probably not in high enough concentration to cause problems for the human population).

However the question is two-fold. Is the planet set on a course of long-term warming and if it is does humankind have anything to do with it? Unfortunately I don't think a model exists that can answer either of these questions with satisfiable accuracy.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't feel some obligation to be stewards of our environment as best we understand how to be - because we really don't know the best way to manage an area - and I feel we should take at least some action to fall in line with this obligation. However I don't feel this obligation is powerful enough that it should by its own necessity overcome our desire for modern conveniences. In fact, I think it will be our greed, more or less, that drives us to find new and inventive ways to keep our house at 70 degrees in the summer and 80 in the winter. And if you REALLY want to make a difference, and you're going to be in your home long term, solar panels are nice, they may pay part of the bill your lights would rack up - but geothermal is two turn tables and a microphone - it will cover the 2/3rd or so of your used electricity by taking your climate control system out of the loop .

 

[Carcharodon]

Oh I don't think there's any question the increased output of CO2 influences the environment in some manner.

You would be surprised.

 

[chaseter]

According to this thread that was in the community section, quite a few people think it isn't occuring and that it is all hogwash or political pandering.

 

[VampElvis]

You would be surprised.

Perhaps. I think the issue comes that the Disciples of Gore try to ram the whole CO2 thing down everyone's throat. I believe most rational people would concede there is is an effect of increased CO2 on the environment, but question whether enough is produced by man to have an observable deleterious effect. It seems to me the issue becomes hopelessly muddied by the aggressive dogmatic "it's your fault" approach and it closes peoples minds to rationality.

 

[Marx]

I'm not quite sure how the existence of global warming can be denied. I think the question is whether or not man has created it.

 

[SuperFerret]

Or if it's really that much of a big deal.

 

[Paradoxium]

Malice you should rename the thread:

DISCUSSION: Man Made Artificial Global Warming

Mar's ice cap is also melting, but it doesn't mean there martians driving SUVs. The debate really is the man-made linkage to the environmental. So in this sense Marx is absolutely correct.

 

[Paradoxium]

Malice you should rename the thread:

DISCUSSION: Anthropogenic Global Warming

Mar's ice cap is also melting, but it doesn't mean there martians driving SUVs. The debate really is the man-made linkage to the environmental. So in this sense Marx is absolutely correct.

 

[Marx]

I think man-made activity is enhancing global warming. I do not think that global warming was solely created by man-made activity. I think it's cyclical, but man is adding to it quite a bit.

 

[Paradoxium]

What I meant in that sense, I don't mean global warming is all man-made.

I corrected a mistake it's not Artificial, it's Anthropogenic.

 

[VampElvis]

I'm not quite sure how the existence of global warming can be denied. I think the question is whether or not man has created it.

Isn't there string evidence of a cooling trend now? I haven't really been following the matter in the last year or so but last I heard there was mounting evidence of cooling. Doesn't mean it wasn't warming before that, I'm just saying. Either way the debate to me isn't that things are changing - that's a given.
The two points of contention I see are
(1) can we with certainty say what we're witnessing is irregular?
my opinion is we cannot, that we can only say change is happening
(2) can it be said humankind is a contributor of consequence to this change
I'm mixed on this - as a factor in the environment I think we do have an impact, however I'm not sure it is significant in the grand scheme of things and I don't think our CO2 emissions play much of a role at all

 

[chaseter]

Global cooling is what happens after warming and when there is an excess of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. It is cyclical but why do we want to live during an Ice Age? Why do we want to contribute to the Earth starting to correct itself due to our contributions? An Ice Age would suck to live through.

 

[Jager X]

Global cooling is what happens after warming and when there is an excess of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. It is cyclical but why do we want to live during an Ice Age? Why do we want to contribute to the Earth starting to correct itself due to our contributions? An Ice Age would suck to live through.

I doubt we can stop another Ice Age from happening. Besides, mankind survived the Ice Age and the mini Ice Age; and we're talking primitive beings. Our technology can possibly make it easier on us.

Yes, I believe the Earth is warming but I am of the thought that it is questionable that humans are a HUGE contributor of this. Do we have a huge impact on our environment? Yes. There are many instances in history where our disregard for the well being of nature cause long-lasting damage. Noone has all the answers but we should take responsibility for the trash around our front doors. As for us killing the planet or us being the cause of the occurances I find hard to swallow.

 

[Nivek]

As for us killing the planet or us being the cause of the occurances I find hard to swallow.

Considering that you can't walk around Chynerbol because of something Man-Made, I don't find it too hard to disbelieve we can mess up the entire planet. Or fish in rivers, or cause bee's to die off from overuse of pesticides. We are an itchy flea to this planet, make no mistake, we push it too far, this planet will give us a flea dip.

 

[VampElvis]

Let me clarify an earlier point (since I've pretty much just been repeating myself). Yes there has been a recent warming trend and if I recall correctly there is mounting evidence of there now being a cooling trend.

What I question is the validity of any model that claims to predict with absolute certainty if this is just another random, or if not random relatively minor, set of fluctuations or if this is the onset of another ice age (or whatever the opposite of an ice age would be). I'm just not convinced we can model the global climate with certainty especially if you truly believe human activity is having an impact. This shouldn't be viewed as a call to inaction on my part, again I say we are obliged to be stewards of our environment, I just can't support climate alarmism.

 

[Jager X]

Considering that you can't walk around Chynerbol because of something Man-Made, I don't find it too hard to disbelieve we can mess up the entire planet. Or fish in rivers, or cause bee's to die off from overuse of pesticides. We are an itchy flea to this planet, make no mistake, we push it too far, this planet will give us a flea dip.

Thanks for agreeing with me. But yeah, to say we can completey destroy this planet is a bit much given the Earth's known history. If anything, we are completely capable of destroying our ability to live.

 

[Jager X]

Let me clarify an earlier point (since I've pretty much just been repeating myself). Yes there has been a recent warming trend and if I recall correctly there is mounting evidence of there now being a cooling trend.

What I question is the validity of any model that claims to predict with absolute certainty if this is just another random, or if not random relatively minor, set of fluctuations or if this is the onset of another ice age (or whatever the opposite of an ice age would be). I'm just not convinced we can model the global climate with certainty especially if you truly believe human activity is having an impact. This shouldn't be viewed as a call to inaction on my part, again I say we are obliged to be stewards of our environment, I just can't support climate alarmism.

I'm in the same boat as you on this subject.

 

[Mister Sinister]

If it wasn't Al Gore, but rather someone like Morgan Spurlock who made a documentary about global warming and brought it to the world's attention, there would be much less debate.

 

[Kelly]

That may be true.....I also think had his documentary been solely about getting information out there about Global Warming, and not used as a possible Presidential campaign re-introduction of Gore, that would have helped as well. What we did at my school is we edited out all of the personal back story that Gore included....it ended up 45 minutes in length and much more of a Global Warming Documentary, and we give the other side through 2 other documentaries.....it works well for class discussion.

 

[VampElvis]

It doesn't help that he's used the issue as a platform to increase his personal worth something like 50x since he left office. (I think Clinton has "only" had a 25-30x increase - but he was the president, not the veep). A less trusting person would question his motives.

 

[Carcharodon]

I believe most rational people would concede there is is an effect of increased CO2 on the environment, but question whether enough is produced by man to have an observable deleterious effect.

The oceans are becoming measurably more acidic thanks to anthropogenic carbon dioxide. It's one of the effects that can't be denied and one that may have some of the largest consequences, but it still remains largely ignored. People who have had these debates/discussions with me know this pretty well by now though, I'd think; it's something I try to point out whenever I can.