Discussion: Global Warming and Other Environmental Issues

[LouFerignoDemon]

I believe a public hearing will occur within two weeks.

 

[chaseter]

I can't believe BP nor this administration has capped this yet as it continues to spew oil.

 

[Anita18]

I can't believe BP nor this administration has capped this yet as it continues to spew oil.

I can see why it's so difficult though, considering how deep this is and how much oil it's spewing. Most of the the news reports are emphasizing that they've never capped a well so deep in the ocean before. All of the stuff they're trying has only been done on much shallower wells.

It would have been A LOT better if it could have been avoided in the first place. I'm hoping for a miracle here. Louisiana does not need any more of this.

 

[Nivek]

I can't believe BP nor this administration has capped this yet as it continues to spew oil.

This is BP's responsibility to fix, and their bill is going to get higher and higher since they are supposed to be covering the total cost of this spill. I hope them shorting that $500,000 fail safe valve was cheap enough for them then, because it is going to cost them tens of billions at this rate.

 

[DACrowe]

Not to mention when the local fisheries lawsuits start coming in, as well as environmental groups in the area start getting their legal papers in order. BP will, deservedly, take a huge hit for this. Unfortunately not as big of a hit as the Gulf Coast's wildlife, ecosystems and beaches will.

All I can say is where is Sarah Palin and her angry mobs chanting, "Drill Baby, Drill!!!!"

Perhaps they should have chanted, Spill Baby, Spill, instead.

 

[chaseter]

This is BP's responsibility to fix, and their bill is going to get higher and higher since they are supposed to be covering the total cost of this spill. I hope them shorting that $500,000 fail safe valve was cheap enough for them then, because it is going to cost them tens of billions at this rate.

Well this administration could have forced them to work faster instead of trusting them or even spend funds to go down and look at the problem instead of waiting for BP to do it and waiting for it to hit land and affect everyone.

This is a huge disaster. I remember Katrina, everyone blamed Bush for not acting quick enough. Well...this too is a natural disaster and something needs to be done other than waiting for BP to fix it. People said Bush was playing golf while people and animals were suffering. I hope Obama had a good time at the correspondence dinner And out campaigning for wall street reform.

 

[Anita18]

Well this administration could have forced them to work faster instead of trusting them or even spend funds to go down and look at the problem instead of waiting for BP to do it and waiting for it to hit land and affect everyone.

This is a huge disaster. I remember Katrina, everyone blamed Bush for not acting quick enough. Well...this too is a natural disaster and something needs to be done other than waiting for BP to fix it. People said Bush was playing golf while people and animals were suffering. I hope Obama had a good time at the correspondence dinner And out campaigning for wall street reform.

Well, this oil spill IS a manmade disaster, so it isn't really akin to Katrina. There was no telling how bad it was in the beginning, there was no reason to think that BP couldn't handle it...until news got out that it was way worse than people initially predicted and then things really got going.

I blame Bush for the aftermath f**kup of Katrina, but at least the Obama administration is trying their best BEFORE the oil slick hit land. Could it have been done sooner? Sure, but the info wasn't there and it was a bit of a mess bureaucratically since it was a private company's turf. But it isn't nearly as bad as Katrina.

 

[chaseter]

A disaster is a disaster none-the-less. They didn't think the oil spill would be as big as it was. They didn't think Katrina was going to be as bad as it was. Both men didn't act quick enough and now millions of lives are affected. Food for thought.

By the way, it took 9 days for this administration to wake up and see how bad this oil spill was. I love how they are saying they were out there day one surveying the damage and getting things in place. No they weren't.

 

[DACrowe]

We have video proof that President Bush was informed that the levees would break two days before Hurricane Katrina made landfall.

On top of that, while hundreds were dying and suffering in the Superdome, Bush gave the head of FEMA the infamous slap on the back of, "Heckuva job, Brownie!!!" Obama has avoided looking that tone deaf and has reacted faster than Bush did who was on vacation for several days after the hurricane had drowned one of America's greatest cities.

Sorry, they're not comparable.

 

[Anita18]

A disaster is a disaster none-the-less. They didn't think the oil spill would be as big as it was. They didn't think Katrina was going to be as bad as it was. Both men didn't act quick enough and now millions of lives are affected. Food for thought.

By the way, it took 9 days for this administration to wake up and see how bad this oil spill was. I love how they are saying they were out there day one surveying the damage and getting things in place. No they weren't.

Yeah, but it isn't like there were independent scientists telling the public how bad the oil spill was. NOBODY knew.

On another forum, we had a resident meteorologist telling us that anyone in the path of Katrina should get out FIVE DAYS before it made landfall. It was going to be the big one, no question. And then Bush had his little speech about how he only found out how bad the storm was when it had already made landfall. Like the President of the United States should have worse intel than a measly figure skating forum with a 60-y-o meteorologist giving us info on his free time.

 

[Victarion]

All this mess is because of deregulation, and letting BP build a rig without a proper failsafe other countries require. Shameful. i love the Gulf Coast, to see this happen... Trials need to begin immediately, and BP and former administration heads need to be brought to task for this. This will be worse than the Valdez spill...

I completely agree. There's beautiful dive spots off the coast of Florida that'll likely be hit hard by this mess. Then of coure the seafood industry and economy of the gulf coast as others have already stated.

For now I'm more concerned with getting the oil leak and what oil is already out there taken care of. Then we can get out the guillotines.

 

[chaseter]

We have video proof that President Bush was informed that the levees would break two days before Hurricane Katrina made landfall.

On top of that, while hundreds were dying and suffering in the Superdome, Bush gave the head of FEMA the infamous slap on the back of, "Heckuva job, Brownie!!!" Obama has avoided looking that tone deaf and has reacted faster than Bush did who was on vacation for several days after the hurricane had drowned one of America's greatest cities.

Sorry, they're not comparable.

What was he going to do...stop the Hurricane Mr. President, the levees will break because of the hurricane going to hit land in two days. Build a wall and build it high.

Bush messed up, no one is denying that Obama messed up too. Instead of mobilizing what we had, he waited for BP. As it quickly got worse, he waited for BP. As the oil got closer to land, he waited on BP. 9 days after the rig exploded, he thinks it is time to do something. I guess he thought big flashy dinners and out campaigning against Wall Street was more important than saving the livelihood of millions of people and saving the lives of millions of sea life.

Yeah, but it isn't like there were independent scientists telling the public how bad the oil spill was. NOBODY knew.

On another forum, we had a resident meteorologist telling us that anyone in the path of Katrina should get out FIVE DAYS before it made landfall. It was going to be the big one, no question. And then Bush had his little speech about how he only found out how bad the storm was when it had already made landfall. Like the President of the United States should have worse intel than a measly figure skating forum with a 60-y-o meteorologist giving us info on his free time.

Bush's fault doesn't lie in the preparation for a hurricane, his fault lies with the aftermath. What is he going to do...mobilize the national guard one day before the hurricane hits? They couldn't reinforce the levees within the two days they knew about it. Only mayors can declare a city in a state of emergency. Did you know that? Bush can't tell people to evacuate New Orleans, only the mayor can. It isn't Bush's fault that the levees were going to fail. It is Bush's fault for not mobilizing the efforts to go in after the hurricane quick enough.

Obama's fault doesn't lie in the preparation for the oil spill, his fault lies with the aftermath. A lot more could have been done after the oil started flooding into the ocean. Hindsight is 20/20. Bush should have acted quicker, so should have Obama but it doesn't change the fact that they both messed up.

 

[Anita18]

Bush's fault doesn't lie in the preparation for a hurricane, his fault lies with the aftermath. What is he going to do...mobilize the national guard one day before the hurricane hits? They couldn't reinforce the levees within the two days they knew about it. Only mayors can declare a city in a state of emergency. Did you know that? Bush can't tell people to evacuate New Orleans, only the mayor can. It isn't Bush's fault that the levees were going to fail. It is Bush's fault for not mobilizing the efforts to go in after the hurricane quick enough.

Obama's fault doesn't lie in the preparation for the oil spill, his fault lies with the aftermath. A lot more could have been done after the oil started flooding into the ocean. Hindsight is 20/20. Bush should have acted quicker, so should have Obama but it doesn't change the fact that they both messed up.

We haven't seen the aftermath of the oil spill yet. They're definitely starting to gear up for it, though. We'll see in a few weeks what he does, and then we can criticize him for it then.

That's the difference I see from Katrina. Nobody prepared for anything, even though all signs were pointing to the once-in-a-lifetime catastrophe a week beforehand. Now we're all preparing for the catastrophe.

 

[chaseter]

I know we haven't seen the aftermath of the oil spill yet but it will be bad. Katrina imo will still remain worse. We know Bush messed up. However, I think Obama has dropped the ball here. The problem I have with that is the fact that he will be let off the hook where as George W. was slammed, slammed, slammed. Obama is just a media darling.

 

[Anita18]

I know we haven't seen the aftermath of the oil spill yet but it will be bad. Katrina imo will still remain worse. We know Bush messed up. However, I think Obama has dropped the ball here. The problem I have with that is the fact that he will be let off the hook where as George W. was slammed, slammed, slammed. Obama is just a media darling.

Not his fault he's a better public speaker who sounds intelligent. I wanted to hide under a table every time Bush opened his mouth. It was mortifying.

 

[Marx]

I know we haven't seen the aftermath of the oil spill yet but it will be bad. Katrina imo will still remain worse. We know Bush messed up. However, I think Obama has dropped the ball here. The problem I have with that is the fact that he will be let off the hook where as George W. was slammed, slammed, slammed. Obama is just a media darling.

How did Obama drop the ball? I'm curious.

 

[DACrowe]

What was he going to do...stop the Hurricane Mr. President, the levees will break because of the hurricane going to hit land in two days. Build a wall and build it high.

Bush's fault doesn't lie in the preparation for a hurricane, his fault lies with the aftermath. What is he going to do...mobilize the national guard one day before the hurricane hits? They couldn't reinforce the levees within the two days they knew about it. Only mayors can declare a city in a state of emergency. Did you know that? Bush can't tell people to evacuate New Orleans, only the mayor can. It isn't Bush's fault that the levees were going to fail. It is Bush's fault for not mobilizing the efforts to go in after the hurricane quick enough.

He could have canceled his two days in Crawford and the next at John McCain's birthday in Arizona to go to Washington and convene an emergency Congressional session to authorize special powers to the National Guard.

With that said, much of that failure falls squarely on the Louisiana governor. But his FEMA was still inefficient. I agree that Obama's Administration was inefficient in not burning the oil on day 1 of the spill last week, but that was due to the poor decision of believing BP at face value that they could cap the spill that was only coming out at 1,000 barrels a day (as opposed to more like 50,000 as it turned out).

There was a failure of government in this spill, you are right. But it is partially due to misinformation spread by the company in charge of the problem. Katrina was a natural disaster whose terrible repercussions Bush knew about at least 48 hours prior to the crisis and it took him another 48 hours to react. It is not quite the same thing, really.

Now that BP has come out admitting they can't handle this mess, we'll see how efficient (or likely poorly) the government handles this problem. But again, this is another great example of big business (oil companies) demanding opportunities (offshore drilling), deregulation and then sticking us, the taxpayers, with cleaning up their mess. Our system is so messed up, sadly.

 

[chaseter]

How did Obama drop the ball? I'm curious.

Because he waited 9 days Instead of sending out containment crews to assist BP or force BP to get down there and plug the hole or even send down a freaking remote rover to see what was going on and how they could fix it...they waited 9 days and now are sending clean up crews. They didn't think it was going to be this bad. As it got worse daily, they still sat and watched.

He could have canceled his two days in Crawford and the next at John McCain's birthday in Arizona to go to Washington and convene an emergency Congressional session to authorize special powers to the National Guard.

With that said, much of that failure falls squarely on the Louisiana governor. But his FEMA was still inefficient. I agree that Obama's Administration was inefficient in not burning the oil on day 1 of the spill last week, but that was due to the poor decision of believing BP at face value that they could cap the spill that was only coming out at 1,000 barrels a day (as opposed to more like 50,000 as it turned out).

There was a failure of government in this spill, you are right. But it is partially due to misinformation spread by the company in charge of the problem. Katrina was a natural disaster whose terrible repercussions Bush knew about at least 48 hours prior to the crisis and it took him another 48 hours to react. It is not quite the same thing, really.

Now that BP has come out admitting they can't handle this mess, we'll see how efficient (or likely poorly) the government handles this problem. But again, this is another great example of big business (oil companies) demanding opportunities (offshore drilling), deregulation and then sticking us, the taxpayers, with cleaning up their mess. Our system is so messed up, sadly.

Obama could have cancelled his correspondence dinner He could have cancelled his town halls for wall street reform. Do you think convincing people that wall street is evil is more important than disaster containment?He could have went to Washington and got on it.

FEMA was inefficient in regards to Bush/Katrina. We all know that. We all know that Bush ****ed up. But now that Obama has done the exact same thing in hoping for the best and not preparing for the worst and not even acting in a timely manner, millions of lives are affected and the oil will destroy countless sea life and natural habitat. The time to blame Katrina on Bush has come and gone, it is now time to see the faults that the current president has done instead of going back 4 years to the last president.

The failure was listening to BP instead of the government checking on it to see what was going on and now look where it got us. If your child is in the next room and you hear a loud crash...do you ask politely what that was or do you go in and see what it was? That is the difference. But waiting 9 days!? I could understand a couple of days but 9

There is nothing wrong with offshore drilling. This is a rare accident and that shouldn't stop all future endeavors offshore. Accidents are going to happen no matter how prepared you are. Because a room caved in on a coal mine doesn't mean we should shut down all future coal mining. We should increase regulation but I keep hearing that the rest of the world does this and we don't. They still have accidents too

 

[Carcharodon]

Because a room caved in on a coal mine doesn't mean we should shut down all future coal mining.

*Sigh* Here we go again...two times in two pages:

Why can't you guys go with the clear and obvious analogy to nuclear power? Chernobyl, perhaps? This is far, far bigger than a coal mine, guys, or a plane crash.

 

[DACrowe]

How many times can I say they are not the same thing? The government was on the problem immediately and BP said they could handle the crisis by capping the oil and doing most of the clean-up. The government, mistakingly, believed them. BP said it was 1,000 barrels a day when they did not know in reality..

The government should not have taken the private corporation at their word and instead should have handled the problem themselves. Unfortunately it took nine days of fail for the Feds to realize how epic a problem this was (there are reports that if it is not capped soon it could reach as high as 200,000 barrels a day!).

The government failed by trusting BP. And it is a government failure. That we can agree upon. But, unlike Bush, the WH saw the problem and acted quickly to the crisis. It is unfortunate that they left stopping the spill to BP. In realization of their folly they have mobilized an effort that thus far has at least been quicker to respond than FEMA's Katrina debacle. In any case, the two situations are very different. One was a natural disaster that was killing thousands of Americans and leaving thousands more homeless, starving, basically as refugees. The other was a manmade problem that the men responsible for it (BP) said they could handle. We can blame the government for believing corporations. But aren't you one to argue for private enterprise and individual responsibility? The Feds were trying to placate that ideology when they stupidly left it in BP's hands.

There is nothing wrong with offshore drilling. This is a rare accident and that shouldn't stop all future endeavors offshore. Accidents are going to happen no matter how prepared you are.

Nothing wrong with offshore drilling? Tell that to the thousands of fishermen whose livelihoods will be greatly hurt if not destroyed by this. Tell that to the Gulf ecosystem that is taking a massive hit with millions of wildlife inhabitants in danger. Tell that to the marshlands that ask as a buffer for hurricanes and produce fertile soil for the Gulf that is now being drenched with oil.

Drilling offshore has always been a stupid distraction. It is nothing but a give me to oil companies to support other energy policies (like Cap and Trade) or an electoral ruse to win votes with idiotic claims like, "Drill Baby, Drill!!!!" It won't bring down costs of oil in this country or anywhere else in the world, we won't be able to actually use it for over a decade--and that's if it is sold in this country, which is not likely to happen. Oh! And it does nothing to curb carbon emissions.

It is a BS issue meant to rally the right and placate the Oil Industry. But this spill reinforces my distrust of them. If they want the government to open vast swaths of land for them to drill in, they do so with the promise that ACCIDENTS WILL NOT HAPPEN. ACCIDENTS ARE UNACCEPTABLE. I know after this I don't want any oil rigs butchering the North Carolina coastline. If "just one" accident happened, our coast would be as ruined as the Gulf. Like the flipflopping governor of California, "No thanks."

Accidents happen? When it comes to offshore drilling and nuclear power plants (the latter of which, I support) there can be no accidents. That's like saying if a nuclear plant melts down and kills millions of people, we just shrug and accept that these things breakdown every once in a while.



Really.

 

[Carcharodon]

How many times can I say they are not the same thing? The government was on the problem immediately and BP said they could handle the crisis by capping the oil and doing most of the clean-up. The government, mistakingly, believed them. BP said it was 1,000 barrels a day when they did not know in reality..

The government should not have taken the private corporation at their word and instead should have handled the problem themselves. Unfortunately it took nine days of fail for the Feds to realize how epic a problem this was (there are reports that if it is not capped soon it could reach as high as 200,000 barrels a day!).

The government failed by trusting BP. And it is a government failure. That we can agree upon. But, unlike Bush, the WH saw the problem and acted quickly to the crisis. It is unfortunate that they left stopping the spill to BP. In realization of their folly they have mobilized an effort that thus far has at least been quicker to respond than FEMA's Katrina debacle. In any case, the two situations are very different. One was a natural disaster that was killing thousands of Americans and leaving thousands more homeless, starving, basically as refugees. The other was a manmade problem that the men responsible for it (BP) said they could handle. We can blame the government for believing corporations. But aren't you one to argue for private enterprise and individual responsibility? The Feds were trying to placate that ideology when they stupidly left it in BP's hands.



Nothing wrong with offshore drilling? Tell that to the thousands of fishermen whose livelihoods will be greatly hurt if not destroyed by this. Tell that to the Gulf ecosystem that is taking a massive hit with millions of wildlife inhabitants in danger. Tell that to the marshlands that ask as a buffer for hurricanes and produce fertile soil for the Gulf that is now being drenched with oil.

Drilling offshore has always been a stupid distraction. It is nothing but a give me to oil companies to support other energy policies (like Cap and Trade) or an electoral ruse to win votes with idiotic claims like, "Drill Baby, Drill!!!!" It won't bring down costs of oil in this country or anywhere else in the world, we won't be able to actually use it for over a decade--and that's if it is sold in this country, which is not likely to happen. Oh! And it does nothing to curb carbon emissions.

It is a BS issue meant to rally the right and placate the Oil Industry. But this spill reinforces my distrust of them. If they want the government to open vast swaths of land for them to drill in, they do so with the promise that ACCIDENTS WILL NOT HAPPEN. ACCIDENTS ARE UNACCEPTABLE. I know after this I don't want any oil rigs butchering the North Carolina coastline. If "just one" accident happened, our coast would be as ruined as the Gulf. Like the flipflopping governor of California, "No thanks."

Accidents happen? When it comes to offshore drilling and nuclear power plants (the latter of which, I support) there can be no accidents. That's like saying if a nuclear plant melts down and kills millions of people, we just shrug and accept that these things breakdown every once in a while.



Really.

While both nuclear power plants and offshore drilling rigs have had incredibly good safety records, and while the odds of failure are slim, we absolutely must take into account the magnitude of the effect of potential failure when we assess their overall safety, especially when such failures are likely to be the result of human negligence.

I still kind of support offshore drilling, but I have to say that my confidence is more than shaken in this matter. It's intellectually dishonest to compare this catastrophe to a collapsed coal mine, or to a plane crash...the ramifications here are far more wide-reaching and far, far more damaging than either of those two scenarios.

 

[Carcharodon]

This is BP's responsibility to fix, and their bill is going to get higher and higher since they are supposed to be covering the total cost of this spill. I hope them shorting that $500,000 fail safe valve was cheap enough for them then, because it is going to cost them tens of billions at this rate.

You make a compelling point, but I have to say that in light of the enormity of the disaster at hand, it's...petty.

 

[Nivek]

This is a huge disaster. I remember Katrina, everyone blamed Bush for not acting quick enough. Well...this too is a natural disaster

No, it is not.

 

[Hobodeluxe]

This is BP's responsibility to fix, and their bill is going to get higher and higher since they are supposed to be covering the total cost of this spill. I hope them shorting that $500,000 fail safe valve was cheap enough for them then, because it is going to cost them tens of billions at this rate.

Not unless congress changes the cap of damages put into law in 1990 (after Exxon Valdez) limiting liability to 75 million bucks. this doesn't include cleanup but does include damages to gulf residents' livelihoods and their own personal property damage. there may even be evacuations along the coast because of the fumes.

 

[chaseter]

No, it is not.

Yes it is. The oil spill was caused by man but the wind blew the oil towards the coast. The wind could have never blown and the oil stayed in the vicinity of the rig or blew out to sea where it would have had far less an impact. If you want to get technical, man's carbon footprint and our changing of our habitat may have caused Katrina for all you know. The levees breaking was certainly our fault and that was the disaster.